This IS the LOVE of God - that we KEEP His Commandments

[BobRyan]

This is what the Bible actually says on the subject.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments John 14:15

A direct quote from the TEN Commadments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

Which is not too surprising since Christ is the one giving the Commandments at Siniah according to Hebrews 8:6-10

"what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Tradition vs the Commandments of God - Mark 7:6-13 you have free will - you can choose.

 

[BobRyan]

The argument against these texts appears to be that God's Word and the Love of God are not compatible with each other. But the texts in the OP show harmony between obeying God's Word and Loving God.

 

[Doveaman]

This is what the Bible actually says on the subject.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments John 14:15

A direct quote from the TEN Commadments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

Which is not too surprising since Christ is the one giving the Commandments at Siniah according to Hebrews 8:6-10

"what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Tradition vs the Commandments of God - Mark 7:6-13 you have free will - you can choose.

Good post.

The argument against these texts appears to be that God's Word and the Love of God are not compatible with each other. But the texts in the OP show harmony between obeying God's Word and Loving God.

I agree.

 

[Another Lazarus]

The Jewish people and their Rabbi assumed they were the true chosen nation who inherited the Law and the Kingdom of God and understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion,
but we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father,

Matt 5:44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,

46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

 

[Ken Rank]

The Jewish people and their Rabbi assumed they were the true chosen nation who inherited the Law and the Kingdom of God and understood only those who were of their own country, nation, and religion, whom they were pleased to look upon as their friends. Others salute their brethren, and embrace those of their own party, and way, and opinion,
but we must study to conform ourselves to the example of our heavenly Father,

Matt 5:44 but I -- I say to you, Love your enemies, bless those cursing you, do good to those hating you, and pray for those accusing you falsely, and persecuting you,

46. For if you love those who love you, what reward do you have? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?

There is a reason why messiah said, "on these two hang ALL the law and prophets." Because if we look at loving God and loving neighbor as nails and we bang them a short way into the wall... we can literally take the rest of the commandments and hang them on one or the other. We don't steal or kill because we love neighbor... we don't worship other gods or take His name in vain because we love God. Just a few simple examples but we can go through the whole Torah and do this... because messiah told us we can. ALL THE LAW and ALL THE PROPHETS hang on those two.

 

[Ken Rank]

This is what the Bible actually says on the subject.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments John 14:15

A direct quote from the TEN Commadments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

Which is not too surprising since Christ is the one giving the Commandments at Siniah according to Hebrews 8:6-10

"what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Tradition vs the Commandments of God - Mark 7:6-13 you have free will - you can choose.

I need to stay away from these threads because they end up being a time drain. But I will say this... if we call the law/commandments bondage or a burden which many Christians do... and John says the commandments are not burdensome.... then either John is wrong and that brings into question the inspiration of God...... or we are viewing Scripture through a bias that is not compatible with John's.

 

[Amazing Horse]

I need to stay away from these threads because they end up being a time drain. But I will say this... if we call the law/commandments bondage or a burden which many Christians do... and John says the commandments are not burdensome.... then either John is wrong and that brings into question the inspiration of God...... or we are viewing Scripture through a bias that is not compatible with John's.

Not saved people can't stand commadments because they have no power over sin but when you are saved as free gift 1 Corinthians 15:1-4 then you are sealed with Holy Spirit Ephesians 1:13-14 and it helps you fight flesh and overcome sin if you want to , but still you are proclaimed righteous by gift of God alone not what you do in flesh (Ephesians 2:8-9) , good works and putting down flesh is for rewards .

 

[Halbhh]

This is what the Bible actually says on the subject.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments John 14:15

A direct quote from the TEN Commadments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

Which is not too surprising since Christ is the one giving the Commandments at Siniah according to Hebrews 8:6-10

"what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Tradition vs the Commandments of God - Mark 7:6-13 you have free will - you can choose.

Useful to help us follow Him! Thank you.

 

[Halbhh]

This is what the Bible actually says on the subject.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and observe His commandments. 3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments; and His commandments are not burdensome. 1 John 5:2-3

IF you Love Me - KEEP My Commandments John 14:15

A direct quote from the TEN Commadments "Love Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:7

Which is not too surprising since Christ is the one giving the Commandments at Siniah according to Hebrews 8:6-10

"what matters is KEEPING God's Commandments" 1 Cor 7:19

"the saints KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus" Rev 14:12

Tradition vs the Commandments of God - Mark 7:6-13 you have free will - you can choose.

Jesus replied, "Anyone who loves me will obey my teaching. My Father will love them, and we will come to them and make our home with them."

(John ch 14)

 

[BobRyan]

Good post.
I agree.

Good to have agreement.

 

[Doveaman]

Good to have agreement.

Hey, I never disagreed we love God by obeying His commandments.
I only disagree we obey the 10 commandments.
Because His commandments are not the 10 commandments.

 

[BobRyan]

Because His commandments are not the 10 commandments.

Hebrews 8:6-10 says Christ is the one who gave us the Ten Commandments.

Eph 6:2 the "First Commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - which is only true in the case of the Ten Commandments.

One may have any preference they wish - but those details remain the same.

 

[Halbhh]

Hebrews 8:6-10 says Christ is the one who gave us the Ten Commandments.

Eph 6:2 the "First Commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - which is only true in the case of the Ten Commandments.

One may have any preference they wish - but those details remain the same.

Yes. Now His law is on our hearts -- We are now to be "in spirit and in truth".

The Sabbath is an example, as you know coming up several times in the gospels. We are free as Christ said to do good works on the Sabbath, for example. It's no longer a legalistic Sabbath of rigid rules, but now it's the real spirit/intent of the Sabbath that counts only, that we have time for rest and to focus on the things of God. The purpose of the Sabbath is now the aim, and not an old way of precise sets of rules as before. This is an example of how the former commandments are now in spirit and in truth just the 2 commandments, to love God with all we are and all our ability, all we have, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. And much of His teaching then as you know is about ways that looks and is in practice in spirit and in truth, such as even to love an 'enemy', and to forgive over and over.

 

[Doveaman]

Hebrews 8:6-10 says Christ is the one who gave us the Ten Commandments.

Eph 6:2 the "First Commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - which is only true in the case of the Ten Commandments.

One may have any preference they wish - but those details remain the same.

The details also tell us that the priesthood of Christ is permitted to violate the 4th commandment of the law and still remain innocent of sin:

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here.'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

The priesthood of Christ is not required to rest on the Sabbath day because the sacred works we do everyday in the temple of Christ body are far more important than the ceremonial rest on the Sabbath day:

"You also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:5).

It is not a sin for the priesthood of Christ to violate the Sabbath day because we are always engaged in the sacred works of God everyday.

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

 

[Doveaman]

Yes. Now His law is on our hearts -- We are now to be "in spirit and in truth".

The Spirit of the law written on our hearts is not the letter of the law written on our hearts:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The Spirit of the law is the love required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

The Gentiles fulfill the love required by the law even though they do not have the letter of the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Romans 2:14-15).

Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts, even though they do not have the letter of the law.

The Sabbath is an example, as you know coming up several times in the gospels. We are free as Christ said to do good works on the Sabbath

The priesthood of Christ is also free to violate the Sabbath day and yet remain innocent of sin:

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

It's no longer a legalistic Sabbath of rigid rules, but now it's the real spirit/intent of the Sabbath that counts only, that we have time for rest and to focus on the things of God.

We focus on the things of God everyday: "Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." (1 Corinthians 10:31).

The purpose of the Sabbath is now the aim, and not an old way of precise sets of rules as before.

If the Sabbath is not as before, then we are free to observe it and free not to:

"Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5-6).

This is an example of how the former commandments are now in spirit and in truth just the 2 commandments, to love God with all we are and all our ability, all we have, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. And much of His teaching then as you know is about ways that looks and is in practice in spirit and in truth, such as even to love an 'enemy', and to forgive over and over.

That's correct, love is the fulfillment of the law. Those who are inspired by the love of the Spirit do not rely on the letter of the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

 

[BobRyan]

The details also tell us that the priesthood of Christ is permitted to violate the 4th commandment of the law

Again a misread of the text entirely.

In Mark 2 both Christ and the Jews agree that for all of time - the priesthood was "working" on Sabbath -- for God. In worship service.

NONE of them argued that the priests where actually doing secular work, building houses sowing and reaping on Sabbath or that they were engaging in secular conversation on Sabbath.

In other words this idea was not unique with Christ - rather it was a point of "agreement" in Mark 2.

If you are saying you are a pastor and want to work at writing and preaching your sermon on the Bible Sabbath -- then that fits the Mark 2 text.

Otherwise you have a big misread going there.

 

[BobRyan]

Yes. Now His law is on our hearts -- We are now to be "in spirit and in truth".

The Sabbath is an example, as you know coming up several times in the gospels. We are free as Christ said to do good works on the Sabbath, for example. It's no longer a legalistic Sabbath of rigid rules, but now it's the real spirit/intent of the Sabbath that counts only, that we have time for rest and to focus on the things of God. The purpose of the Sabbath is now the aim, and not an old way of precise sets of rules as before. This is an example of how the former commandments are now in spirit and in truth just the 2 commandments, to love God with all we are and all our ability, all we have, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. And much of His teaching then as you know is about ways that looks and is in practice in spirit and in truth, such as even to love an 'enemy', and to forgive over and over.

There was never a time when God wanted man to use scripture / His Word -- as a means to war against the Gospel. It was never God's intent that man should be lost - but yet keeping some commandment.

 

[Halbhh]

The Spirit of the law written on our hearts is not the letter of the law written on our hearts:

"He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant — not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life" (2 Corinthians 3:6-9).

The Spirit of the law is the love required by the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

The Gentiles fulfill the love required by the law even though they do not have the letter of the law:

“For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature the things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts” (Romans 2:14-15).

Gentiles who do not have the letter of the law, do fulfill by natural instinct the love required by the law, and they become a law for themselves since their actions are inspired by love from their hearts, even though they do not have the letter of the law.
The priesthood of Christ is also free to violate the Sabbath day and yet remain innocent of sin:

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5-6).
We focus on the things of God everyday: "Whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God." (1 Corinthians 10:31).
If the Sabbath is not as before, then we are free to observe it and free not to:

"Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it" (Romans 14:5-6).
That's correct, love is the fulfillment of the law. Those who are inspired by the love of the Spirit do not rely on the letter of the law, because love is the fulfillment of the law: “Love does no harm to its neighbor. Therefore love is the fulfillment of the law” (Romans 13:9-10).

Yes, different wording, same meaning. We agree. Note as a detail for that quote Rom 14 the practical outcome is that Paul says to Jewish converts that a traditional observance is ok, and those who don't do the traditional observance they are fine too!

That's actually a message to all the Church right now today we need. We have so many added traditions.....Of so many kinds.

 

[Doveaman]

Again a misread of the text entirely.

In Mark 2 both Christ and the Jews agree that for all of time - the priesthood was "working" on Sabbath -- for God. In worship service.

The Christian life is lived in worship and service to God everyday:

"Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God — this is your spiritual act of worship." (Romans 12:1).

NONE of them argued that the priests where actually doing secular work, building houses sowing and reaping on Sabbath or that they were engaging in secular conversation on Sabbath.
In other words this idea was not unique with Christ - rather it was a point of "agreement" in Mark 2.

Actually, the disciples of Jesus were reaping on the Sabbath day:

"At that time Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath. His disciples were hungry and began to pick some heads of grain and eat them. When the Pharisees saw this, they said to Him, 'Look! Your disciples are doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath.'" (Matthew 12:1-2).

The Pharisees accused the disciples of doing what was unlawful on the Sabbath, but instead of Jesus denying the accusation of the Pharisees, He simply reminded them of the priests who were doing what was unlawful on the Sabbath:

"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent?'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

The priests in the temple were doing what was unlawful on the Sabbath day, and in doing so they were violating the 4th commandment by desecrating the Sabbath day, and yet they remained innocent of sin.

If you are saying you are a pastor and want to work at writing and preaching your sermon on the Bible Sabbath -- then that fits the Mark 2 text.

No, I am saying that we Christians are all members of the priesthood of Christ working in the temple of Christ's body, and we too are permitted to violate the Sabbath day and still remain innocent of sin:

"You also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ." (1 Peter 2:5).

 

[BobRyan]

Because His commandments are not the 10 commandments.

Hebrews 8:6-10 says Christ is the one who gave us the Ten Commandments.

Eph 6:2 the "First Commandment with a promise" is the 5th commandment - which is only true in the case of the Ten Commandments.

One may have any preference they wish - but those details remain the same.

The details also tell us that the priesthood of Christ is permitted to violate the 4th commandment of the law and still remain innocent of sin:


"Haven't you read in the Law that on the Sabbath the priests in the temple desecrate the day and yet are innocent? I tell you that One greater than the temple is here.'' (Matthew 12:5-6).

Not true in "real life" of course. In real life both Matt 12 and Mark 2 point to non-Christian Levite priests working to perform the worship service on the Bible Sabbath and just like Pastors today who preach on Sabbath ... their work is not counted as Sabbath breaking. But neither Christ nor the Jews in Matt 12 and Mark 2 claimed that Jewish priests were engaging in the secular work of planting fields, harvest, building houses etc while all others among God's people were "keeping the Sabbath" as if true Sabbath breaking were even going on at all there.

Rather BOTH Christ AND the non-Christian Jews in those chapter... before the cross... agreed that the work of the priest - was sacred work -- permissible on the Sabbath.

And we all know it.

Bible details matter.