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This is sick!

RichardT

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From the Afterword
By Richard Dawkins


IN THE
1920s and 1930s, scientists from both the political left and right would not have found the idea of designer babies particularly dangerous - though of course they would not have used that phrase. Today, I suspect that the idea is too dangerous for comfortable discussion, and my conjecture is that Adolf Hitler is responsible for the change. Nobody wants to be caught agreeing with that monster, even in a single particular. The spectre of Hitler has led some scientists to stray from "ought" to "is" and deny that breeding for human qualities is even possible. But if you can breed cattle for milk yield, horses for running speed, and dogs for herding skill, why on Earth should it be impossible to breed humans for mathematical, musical or athletic ability? Objections such as "these are not one-dimensional abilities" apply equally to cows, horses and dogs and never stopped anybody in practice.
I wonder whether, some 60 years after Hitler's death, we might at least venture to ask what the moral difference is between breeding for musical ability and forcing a child to take music lessons. Or why it is acceptable to train fast runners and high jumpers but not to breed them. I can think of some answers, and they are good ones, which would probably end up persuading me. But hasn't the time come when we should stop being frightened even to put the question?



http://devel.sundayherald.com/life/people/display.var.1031440.0.eugenics_may_not_be_bad.php
 

fromdownunder

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I am trying to work out what is sick. My reading of the article is simply put the question of selective breeding of humans, and in the next to final sentence says he is aware of good arguments not to support such a position.

I can think of arguments on both sides of this particular debate although I am emotionally opposed to such a practice - even though it has been going on in animal husbandry, crops fruits and domestic pets for a very long time.

Norm
 
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flicka

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I CAN'T BELIEVE I'M READING THIS. WOW.

If you can understand why inbreeding isn't encouraged (you can...right?) you should be able to understand why selective breeding could be beneficial. I get the feeling you are reading this and jumping to a 1000 conclusions, all of which end with "it's not natural" and "we are playing God!!". Am I right?
 
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Harpuia

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Diversity's great and all, but I don't want weak and stupid kids. Diversity is about being nice to people who aren't like you, but it doesn't mean you want weak and stupid kids. Or short kids.
I'd like you to say that to the face of a weak, stupid, or short kid, and see how they feel.

Strange, really, the liberals, the kind who is supposed to stand up for the little guy, wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for another step towards whatever utopia they're looking for, especially when most of how they wind up in life depends on their choices anyway, not their genes.

However, this will do wonders to save deformed kids or kids with actual life-long diseases/illnesses. But downing someone because they're short... or not the right hair color... or eye color... is ridiculous.
 
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fanatiquefou

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Liberals supporting selective breeding?

What happened to supporting diversity?

HE'S NOT SUPPORTING SELECTIVE BREEDING!!

Is nobody bothering to actually READ what he's saying? He's merely saying that there's no harm in at least raising controversial questions like that, rather than completely suppressing them and pretending it's not something that could come up. Maybe, as he says, the arguments against something like selective breeding would be so compelling that no one would ever consider it - but how is it harmful to at least be openly discussing it rather than burying the question?
 
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fanatiquefou

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I'd like you to say that to the face of a weak, stupid, or short kid, and see how they feel.

Strange, really, the liberals, the kind who is supposed to stand up for the little guy, wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for another step towards whatever utopia they're looking for, especially when most of how they wind up in life depends on their choices anyway, not their genes.

However, this will do wonders to save deformed kids or kids with actual life-long diseases/illnesses. But downing someone because they're short... or not the right hair color... or eye color... is ridiculous.

I just really, REALLY do not understand where you're getting all this. Nothing even remotely similar to what you're claiming is even mentioned in the article. I also love how you've taken one article, by one person, simply mentioning that maybe the question of selective breeding ought to be raised, and extrapolated that to ALL liberals, wanting ALL people who don't fit some genetic model to be wiped off the face of the earth. That's just beyond ridiculous.
 
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savvy

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HE'S NOT SUPPORTING SELECTIVE BREEDING!!

Is nobody bothering to actually READ what he's saying? He's merely saying that there's no harm in at least raising controversial questions like that, rather than completely suppressing them and pretending it's not something that could come up. Maybe, as he says, the arguments against something like selective breeding would be so compelling that no one would ever consider it - but how is it harmful to at least be openly discussing it rather than burying the question?


Exactly. There is nothing wrong with raising these kinds of questions. The concept of selective breeding has its appeal; it is the actual practice that can become questionable and even immoral. But there is nothing wrong with discussion of the issue.

"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."
 
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Harpuia

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I just really, REALLY do not understand where you're getting all this. Nothing even remotely similar to what you're claiming is even mentioned in the article. I also love how you've taken one article, by one person, simply mentioning that maybe the question of selective breeding ought to be raised, and extrapolated that to ALL liberals, wanting ALL people who don't fit some genetic model to be wiped off the face of the earth. That's just beyond ridiculous.
I was referring to his quote.
 
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The Nihilist

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I'd like you to say that to the face of a weak, stupid, or short kid, and see how they feel.

Strange, really, the liberals, the kind who is supposed to stand up for the little guy, wants them wiped off the face of the Earth for another step towards whatever utopia they're looking for, especially when most of how they wind up in life depends on their choices anyway, not their genes.

However, this will do wonders to save deformed kids or kids with actual life-long diseases/illnesses. But downing someone because they're short... or not the right hair color... or eye color... is ridiculous.

Listen, I don't want imperfect people to be wiped from the face of the earth. But I don't want my kid to be the one who needs extra help to keep pace with the class; I don't want my kid to be the one who gets beat up because he's too small to defend himself. I want my kid to have the genetic advantage. Protecting the weak is a good rule for a society, but I don't want my kids to be the weak. Do you follow?
 
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Harpuia

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Listen, I don't want imperfect people to be wiped from the face of the earth. But I don't want my kid to be the one who needs extra help to keep pace with the class; I don't want my kid to be the one who gets beat up because he's too small to defend himself. I want my kid to have the genetic advantage. Protecting the weak is a good rule for a society, but I don't want my kids to be the weak. Do you follow?
Yeah, I do.

I guess too many times, I see ideas that we're supposed to have an open mind suddenly become undebatable within a few years and anyone who disagrees is considered scum.

I've seen that happen with one too many topics, and I'd rather keep something like this (unless it's a real serious case) away from discussion, because while it sounds all great at first, there's ALWAYS downfalls to everything.
 
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chipmunk

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Diversity's great and all, but I don't want weak and stupid kids. Diversity is about being nice to people who aren't like you, but it doesn't mean you want weak and stupid kids. Or short kids.

I'm a short kid!!! I'm only 5'4" or 147cm for the metric folks.:cry:

My head runs into less things so it is better protected than the heads of tall people. Being vertically challenged does have its perks. One of those perks, however, is definitely not the ability to reach objects on the top shelf at the grocery store.

Actually, I agree with the general idea of your statement.
 
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