This is ludicrous!

[Crispie]

I am sorry that I have gotten out of line. I got carried away in defense of the integrity of the bible when someone thinks its false or something. I do not expect you to accept my apology when I was offensive to you, but I hope that you do take my apology into consideration. Next time Ill take a more careful look at what exactly I say about other statements of someone, such as using an answer against someone, that wasnt right of me. If I ever get out of line, please show me how, so that I may better debate with integrity and fairness. I admit that I did in fact judge you before, and that was very wrong of me. I will continue to debate for God, but I also do admit to my failures to uphold the scripture at times, such as judging someone. I can only hope that I may recieve your forgiveness, and that I may be able to debate more peacefully next time. I just want you to know that even if we may disagree, that you are still precious in Gods eyes and that both God and I, and all other Christians, love you with all our heart.

-Crispie-

 

[ravenwolf]

well thank you for the apology, i most certaintly forgive you. We all get carried away sometimes.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Rae]

I think it would help if people didn't start threads asking if the conservative Christians here think Wicca is evil. IMO that's just asking for negative opinions. Sorry your experience here has been so negative. I find the best thing to do is, when I find someone who refuses to listen and consistently posts negative and untrue things about my faith, add her/him to my ignore list. My blood pressure stays lower and I'm much happier this way. Also, if someone gets truly offended and hurt by what he/she says, you can always tell from the offended person's posts and comfort her/him personally.

 

[e=mv^2]

I think the main conflict is this:

Wiccan person x posts a thread to see what the Christian people think of Wicca.

Christian person y posts a reply stating what they believe.

Wiccan persons x along with ab and c get offended that y believes thier "path" to be invalid.

Debate insues.

Some say that the Christian perspective is intolerant. This intolerance is an intolerance for heresy.

(Forgive the broad sweeping statement here)
Christians believe that Jesus was perfect.
Jesus said that belief in him was the one and only path to heaven.
Saying that there is another path - no matter what it may be - is heresy in that you are:
a) saying that Jesus was wrong.
b) saying that Jesus was imperfect.
c) saying that Jesus was not God.

Now if any of those were true then the entire basis on which Christianity is founded becomes false. This is the core of the conflict. In this you will not find resolution.

If you would like to debate ethics, morality, economics or any other topic that does not attack the very foundation of Christianity I think you will find that the tone of your responses will be quite different.

If I were to post on a wiccan board that thier religion was made up by some hippie back in the late 60's and that it was utterly false - I would expect the same type of responses.

When you post that wicca is valid, you are posting that Christ was imperfect and false. Do not expect a happy warm reply to it. You would not tolerate poison in your drinking water. You would not tolerate feces in your food. This is why those that post so heatedly do so.

 

[nb_christseeker]

Why is it that everytime a thread about Wicca is put up it ends up in arguing back and forth... I have a headache from all this arguing and not to mention the number of the same kind of thread with arguing about Wicca(i think I counted 7). Obviosly there are alot of people here that are too full of themselves and think that they are above all, and "how dare anyone have a different view". You know, I was happy at first on finding this forum because I thought it would be great to share and connect with those of other faiths and try to see eye to eye, and to clear up these crazy idea about wicca, but all I see here is condemnation and bigotry. All I have been doing is arguing myself in circles trying to defend my beliefs from these crazy accusations. I don't think I will be coming here anymore, it is too angering to see people that are so ignorant and intolerant of the diversity that is the human race. I'll probably linger for a bit, but i will not be posting to any of these arguments, I am done arguing.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

Exo 20:3-6
(3) Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
(4) Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
(5) Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
(6) And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

2Chr 33:6 He sacrificed his sons in Hinnom Valley as burnt offerings. He practiced divination and magic and consulted fortunetellers and mediums. He sinned greatly against the LORD and stirred up his anger.

I think it all comes down to exodus 20:3-6 and 2nd chronicles 33:6, among other lines in the bible. If hating evil defines "bigotry and intolerant", then by that definition I am a bigot and intolerant.

 

[vajradhara]

Namaste ravenwolf,


well... not to put too fine a point on it... however...

this is a Christian forum.. even though this is the non-Christian section.

as such, it's not so much about comparative studies.. it's about proving who's right..

if you are interested in a non-sectarian comparative type of place, may i recommend www.comparative-religion.com

specifically the Magik or New Age sections..

 

[ravenwolf]

Thanks
vajradhara,
I'll check that out..that seems more like something I am looking for.

I think the main conflict is this:

Wiccan person x posts a thread to see what the Christian people think of Wicca.

Christian person y posts a reply stating what they believe.

No, I dont think that is the problem becuase that is expected that they will not agree. I was never asking christians to agree with my religion...i am perfectly aware that part of their doctrine is that they believe that Jesus is the only way to God...the problem that i have is with the hatefulness and bigotry i was recieving from a few people here. Which they have apologised, so its cool now.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Crispie]

Why do wiccans use Magik not Magic, just seems strange that its spelled differently, do they have 2 different meanings or something. :?

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

Just an FYI...Wicca came to America in the '60s, with Raymond Buckland. Wicca's inception occured in Europe in the 1940s, during which Gardner's first two books were written (as "fiction" because they were illegal).Witchcraft Today was the first "official" non-fiction Wiccan book to be written-following the repeal of the European laws banning witchcraft-& was published in 1951. Mr. Gardner was most certainly not a "hippie". Besides, what's wrong with hippies?

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Cerridwen]

Why do wiccans use Magik not Magic, just seems strange that its spelled differently, do they have 2 different meanings or something. :?

Hey~

Generally, we use the term 'magick' to differentiate from the sleight of hand type 'magic' that illusionists or magicians (entertainers, not real magicians) use. Our magick isn't pretend or for entertainment purposes, & while we know that, sometimes people who aren't familiar with our terminology don't, so we use the different spellings for clarification purposes.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[Crispie]

What kind of magik do you guys do? Anything thats not spiritual in the sense that Non-Wiccans can see this Magik or know that it exists?

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

Well....most of what we do is spiritual, so it is difficult to "show" it to a non-Wiccan. I have had non-Wiccan friends who come to my Circle to observe ritual & they have felt the energy raised within, though. Every person has some psychic ability, just not many know how to use it. The power of the mind is unbelievable sometimes. Magick is just really difficult to explain. Creative visualization is part of magick, & comes into play when one is casting a Circle, for instance-if you know how to do it, you (and others) can actually see the Circle being drawn. You can physically see the light coming out of the caster's finger, blade, or wand. When you are open & you know what you're looking for, you can physically see energy coming into the Circle, for instance, when items are blessed. Spellwork is also a form of magick, & it works much like your prayers do, except when we do spellwork we don't just "leave it up to God", we put our own energy into it to help it to work as well. Sorry I couldn't be more clear, & I hope I haven't thoroughly confused you, lol. Really, it's something you have to see, or rather feel to believe.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

wicca rituals and "feeling" energy...yet another belief system that cannot be proven empirically with solid verifiable physical evidence....how do you wiccans know its not just "all in your head"? What expereinces have you have that prooved beyond a shadow of a doubt that "energy" and such is Real?

 

[Lucubratus]

wicca rituals and "feeling" energy...yet another belief system that cannot be proven empirically with solid verifiable physical evidence....how do you wiccans know its not just "all in your head"? What expereinces have you have that prooved beyond a shadow of a doubt that "energy" and such is Real?

I don't have a lot of online time - so it will be a while before I get back on here - but in both Wicca and Christianity (as in prayer sessions) there has been tangible feelings of energy and physical manifestations thereof. I looked up stuff like this online a few times for research purposes; scientists doing experiments on capturing a person's energy field and the like. I'm sure if you dabble enough with search words, you'll find it - but asking someone to tell you what experiences they've had online isn't very fair when they can't show you any empirical proof. I've had things happen in front of a lot of people who saw it for themselves, but no one else is going to believe it except for the person who experienced or saw it.

Ciao

 

[ReUsAbLePhEoNiX]

I don't have a lot of online time - so it will be a while before I get back on here - but in both Wicca and Christianity (as in prayer sessions) there has been tangible feelings of energy and physical manifestations thereof. I looked up stuff like this online a few times for research purposes; scientists doing experiments on capturing a person's energy field and the like. I'm sure if you dabble enough with search words, you'll find it - but asking someone to tell you what experiences they've had online isn't very fair when they can't show you any empirical proof. I've had things happen in front of a lot of people who saw it for themselves, but no one else is going to believe it except for the person who experienced or saw it.

Ciao

I would LOVE to see the results of an science expereiment capturing a spiritual energy field ( chi?), I will look into it...if you have any key words I can google, let me know..

How is requesting evidence unfair? I am also requesting subjective evidence, like you just mentioned about your own expereinces of seeing something.
Im not out to ridicule your own expereinces,
and if I dont beleive you its because my own sujective expereince contradicts your own ...but I am not claiming that my expereince "overrides " your own

...its just that evidence, subjective or not, is the crux of the whole issue in beleiving something to be true or false. And more than anything I am interested in peoples personal expereinces that validated their faith as Truth.

Exspecially external experience,

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

Chi is energy, more of a "Life-Force" than anything else. Psychic Vampires feed off of Chi, usually.

As far as my own personal experiences, I've felt the God & the Goddess come into Circle when we ask Them to join, I've felt the Elements' energy, I've cast a Circle many times, & I can see the energy coming out of my blade where I lay the Circle down. It's difficult for me to just explain it to you, as I can't tell you exactly what it feels like. When I Draw Down the Moon, I can feel the power & energy of the Goddess come into my body. It's amazing-like my body just "fills up" with Her.

I have the evidence that the spells I have cast worked....so I accept that as proof enough.

As I've said before, the mind is a very powerful thing-but I think of magick as simply expanding my mind & tapping into the energy around me as well as my own energy within.

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[ravenwolf]

...its just that evidence, subjective or not, is the crux of the whole issue in beleiving something to be true or false. And more than anything I am interested in peoples personal expereinces that validated their faith as Truth.

The first thing that comes to mind for personal experiences was a vision i had during my year and day period of studying wicca....I was laying in bed and all of the sudden i went into a deep meditaive state and my eyes opened (not my physical eyes cuz they were closed... my spiritual one)it was extremely vivid i was in this beautiful forest and i could feel the dirt beenath my feet and the cool breeze...it was very real feeling and to my left was a truck with a keg in the back with a bunch of people saying "hey, come on, where going to party" and they were heading out of these woods. I was about to go, when something made me turn away and walk further into the woods...i walked down a little trail in the woods and i stopped when i came to these two trees...on each tree was a symbol..one for the God and one for the Goddess and then i was back in my room. That was i definate confirmation...this is my path.
Psychic faculties opening....I had a dream one night that I was in these woods and everyone was chopping at these trees and i could haer the trees screaming and i was yelling at everyone to stop, but no one else could hear the screams but me.....not even two days later after the dream, i gained the ability to feel emotions and energy around me. The first experience was this tree that had been illegally cut down and its top that had been cut off was just lying there(it was basically cut down for no reason at all) and i walked over to this tree and when i came within 3 feet of it I could feel its energy and i felt its pain...i literally felt its pain as if it were my pain, i cried it was so intense, i never knew i tree could feel pain like that....since then it continualy increases...i can feel stones, flowers, animals, i can feel energy over the internet, the phone, (hence why i am so sensitive to hate and anger, cus i can feel it intensly)i can feel people...people are what i am just now starting to feel...probably because i have the most shields up against people so it is harder to learn to feel them except for intense emotions such as hate, anger, love, joy, peace.
Feeling the Divine in myself as well as other living things...i dont know if that counts as proof cuz its not physically tangable...but then again neither is anthing i mentioned, but you did say personal experiences so im assuming these are the types of things you meant.
leaving my physical body to the astral...ive only made outside into my bedroom(the astral version of my bedroom) i could elaborste on that too, but ive already made it long enough with just the two experiences, so i'll just leave it with those two, since those are the most intense of them all.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[Cerridwen]

Hey~

Oooh Raven, what groovy dreams! Yes, I can certainly remember... increased empathetic abilities were one of the first things that came when I began consciously opening my psychic pathways. Opening yourself up to feeling the energy of the Divine around & within every living thing swirling & pulsing around you-it's nothing short of amazing. Touching a tree & feeling the life inside it, listening to the Divine whisper in the wind, it's truly something else. Usually I have really cool experiences in Circle at (one of my) favorite Sabbat(s)...when we'd invite our loved ones to join us...it's wild, the emotion that you can feel coming from them.

K...maybe that was a little too much info, but there ya go, lol....

Love & Blessings, Cerridwen*

 

[ravenwolf]

no, i though it was great..its neat hearing others experience....i think i may have gave too much info...lol...but i guess spiritually is the same(or rather similar as far as peopel feel about sharing) as sex..some like to talk about it and are VERY open and could careless and others feel it is personal and keep it to themselves...i guess i would be one that is very open...though not in the area of sex...i think thats personal...so im opposite on the two. Any way...yes the energy in the circle is awesometoo, you can actually feel the heat intensify from all the energy building up, and calling the elements i can feel it like a rush of energy coming in from where i am calling it....praying to the God and Goddess as well, i feel it just encompass me...makes me all tingly and peaceful and its jsut awesome.....err...i think that is enough...its hard though cus i really dont have any one else to share experiences with, so this is kinda nice...no one else know would understand or even care to know really.
Blessings
~ravenwolf

 

[ravenwolf]

Cerridwen,
BTW, are you in a coven(im guessing you are cuz in your post you said we)? Just wondering...I'm solitary but always wondered what i would be like with a group of people, only thing is how do ya find one and especially one that i would even vibe with...i live in a small town , so i doubt there are really any wicans there....i know a pagan..i think she mightb be wiccan though but i just dont vibe with her....anyway..maybe i'll check out witchvox, but it seems weird to me to get connected to people via the internet...i dunno...
Blessings
~ravenwolf