This could have been posted in the proofs or disproof section but I know for a fact..

[mikenet2006]

Im 23 now older..... wiser, and I belive I have figured out now what takes some a lifetime to realize. Maybee its part of human nature to have the want to believe in something greater than ourselfs. I say if its a good thing and it makes you happy continue to believe, I truly hope it gives you piece of mind.

I myself have come to the conclusion that there is no god, And my reasoning for this is heart felt, and I really gave it a shot and no body who knows me in my life would say otherwise.

There was a time when I believed. In fact I studied religion more than any teen who wasnt destine to become a priest. I even tried to spread the word of God to many people in my life.

Do you know what it was that turned me away? You're probably thinking it's the petty age old assumption that if you cant prove something you cant put you're faith into it. Nope, infact I believe in life beyond earth despite the fact there isnt a shread of proof. Im very open minded, and I will put my efforts into something I believe in my heart to be genuine regardless of the evedence.

I was also willing to accept many things if it helped me to come to terms with God. I was willing to accept that pain and suffering are a part of life as it plays a part in the delicate balence that makes earth such a beautiful thing. One example is that for every creature that dies in the wild another will consume what it needs to survive another day, another may be the fact that to appreciate the summer sometimes you have to rough out the winter, or in order to appreciate the one you love most sometimes you have to know what its like to be without them. All these hardships I can accept from god because it makes sense. What dosent make sense is Hell, and its something I'll never accept, and I'll go into great detail to tell you why.

Hell, hmm lets say we could remove that from history for a sec, guess what? I believe in God just like that. Why? Because hell throws the whole story out of wack.

"""God is just, God is fair""" and this quote

"""If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15:6.

Should not be in the same book, period. First off do you really think God would have taken the time to create a place for santin to continue to exsist? This is assuming God couldnt forsee that Lucifer would turn against him. Someone with the wisdome to create the universe in seven days doesnt make mistakes. Creating hell and earth side by side giving santin the ability to steer his own people away from him makes about as much sense as putting a perfectly healty person in the same room with someone with a deadly airborn virus. For being gods most cherished creatures there sure is a lack of interest in the wellbeing of our lives and our souls, and id rather believe in no god than a god who considers eternity in hell to be justice for a failed life that last no more than 100 years. Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

There is not a priest, or even a pope that will ever explain this, and its because there are no answers for questions as targeted as these, and the bible has these holes in the storyline because it was written by man, and man alone. Without the aid of god. Perhaps this is why the bible is based upon principals that suggest extreem punishment and torture for sin is just. Look at the times it was written in 1445 bc through 90 ac. Very barbaric times infact, when torture was often used prior to exicutions. Every part of the bible reflects the era it was written in. Is this a coincidence?

Beyond this overwhelming evidence there are other things that strike me as obvious signs of gods absence.
For example Like I said before The bible reflects mans ideologies of right, wrong, good, and evil. So does it really supprise anyone here that there are literaly hundreds of different religions that stray from the bibles version of what the truth is? As the people of this planet have varied from era to era and from place to place so have their views of what the truth is. Everything reflects culture, One obvious example of this would be some of your tribal communities in Africa beliving in the gods of the sun, and the gods of the moon. Why do you think they worship things such as these as being their God? Is it perhaps that they live by the vertue of nature? Their lifes are directly connected to nature as they live themselfs under the stars at night and in the jungle by day. It doesnt surprise me in the least that so many alternate religions have always exsisted. Mind you that the Chistians have narrowmindedly given in to the idea that if you believe in anything besides the lord Jesus Christ you go to hell.

Hell! That word! And the idea behind it makes me weep for the wellbeing of our own. And there is no way, and I mean no way, that any god no matter what version you belive in would punish anybody to the extent that most religions suggest. Gods most cherished of all creatures the human being.......... Hmm. It doesnt fit guys, not anymore and it never will again for me.

If you only understood the logic behind "THERE IS NO GOD CAPABLE OF ANY EVIL OR ABANDONMENT OF ANY KIND" then it would become clear to you as well.

I stand before each and every single one of you now and say that if I am wrong and my time comes to stand before God This is about what ill have to say...

I tried my hardest, I used the tools you gave me to live a life of choices. Choices that you gave me as well as the rest of us. You say I was mislead God, but you have lead us all into a situation that jeapordises our eternal souls. You have abandon many for making decisions that you declare are abominations rendering us unworty of your acceptence, and now you will abandon me. So if this is the end for me then so be it because you know what?

This time around I am the one who doesnt accept YOU.


Is there a God? Not like this my friends, not like this.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

satan doesn't rule hell, he rules earth. Also, satan is still in heaven as he hasn't been cast down by the archangel yet.(to my knowledge) And there are several debates on the existence of "hell", or at least in the way it is perceived versus the actual scripture.

 

[Jet_A_Jockey]

that is also assuming that satans fall from heaven in revelation is a literal statement and not a figure of speech (i.e. fall from heaven to earth/fall from power)

 

[ReluctantProphet]

I stand before each and every single one of you now and say that if I am wrong and my time comes to stand before God This is about what ill have to say... Is there a God? Not like this my friends, not like this.

Have you yet considered the possibility that you have always been viewing the entire God story with the wrong light?

Surely during all of your years you have heard people now and then refer to something inanimate as though it were animate. For example; "Mathematics loves people who pay close attention." or "Mathematics hates an over-active imagination".

What if the God they have always been talking about was actually just a foundation principle underlying the creation and activities of all things. And perhaps, so as to gently speak to overly concerned people with no real education, they spoke most often in personal terms saying, "God (the principles by which the universe functions) will reward you if you do these things... But will bring pain and suffering if you do those things..."

Is such a God as that cause for anger against it? Do you get upset at the injustices of mathematics if the problems are too difficult or tell you bad news such as your bank balance is lower than you had hoped? Would a just mathematics require you to always put more into your bank account than you took out such as to enslave you to the prospect of saving money for your future?

Perhaps the God image that you have been carrying and assuming from, is merely the wrong image?

Presumption is the true root of all evil.

Still so sure of your "facts"?

 

[mikenet2006]

Im as sure of what I believe as anyone here is.

Nature, science, life, and religion have become some of the things man kind and man kind alone has come to understand in a way that no other creature on this planet has ever come close to doing.

Our species has been given all the breaks at the right time to alow us to evolve into this race that for the first time is begining to understand Its own exsistince to some extent. You want to know what the danger is in this though prophet? I belive that it gets to the point where one can understand too much for there own good. I believe that man should always feel small when looking up at the night sky. Thankfully for me science is a passion that unlike religion, hasnt died. So for me thats where my wonder lies.

Believe in God was good while it lasted just like santa clause, but its over now.

You said alot up there in an educated toung, however you failed to even attempt to explain any one of those issues. Of course you're not the first to get stummped by these types of questions. As my faith diminished in my late teens Ill tell you I went out asking questions. Its been over a year since I've spoken religiously and its because I had a habbit of making people say "well I cant tell you why things are the way they are" or "all these things will be ansered for you in the end" There were never even mear explinations of why God would continue to put human life on earth with the obvious knowladge of the jepordy he puts our souls in with every new birth. Here is another way to look at this picture "hope you like computers because I just pulled this one out of the bag."

Lets for a second say that Hell is a aged pc full of viruses. The thing is dangerous, so it is set aside isolated from heaven. Then god goes through the trouble of creating a newer computer not designed to hold anyhing but his most cherished creations Im speaking of earth. After all this, One day God decides for no particular reason to run a usb cord between the infected computer and his new one with all of its importance in mind.

Odd analigy granted but it makes a point. We here are all affected by the corruption and temptation of hell backed by the notorious Santin.... on a daily basis.
How do you fix this problem and save your own? You cut the cord. Simple enough, heck I figured it out.

Now you can go on about the timeline and details of the things im describing. Im not going to even attempt to explain every varieation it would take all night but usually they have one thing in commen, and that is the myth of hell. As long as its there as far as im concered heaven isnt either, nor God for that matter. My logic?

I dont belive in a god of ignorence, nor do I believe in one of wrath. Answer this somebody please, let me know of a crime that is so bad that God would consider justice an eternity of suffering? Now hell to some means permanent phsical pain, and to others its thought of as an eternity of sorrow where you exsist is a state of hopelesness while you get to reflect on how much of a screw up you were in that small period of time you exsisted here on earth. Either way this is not just in any way.

I probably sound cocky with all of this no doubt but it is what it is. If I could turn back time and take away the knowaladge I have today I probably would. Of corse both the beleivers and the non believers think they know for sure what happened, but I cant stand up here and pretend to know how it happened. I just know how it didnt happen, and thats all I claim to know.

 

[ReluctantProphet]

I think that you missed my point entirely.

The point I was attempting to make is that if you have been understanding "God" as something different than the word really has always meant, then all of your analysis and conclusions become void.

Answer this question with absolute certainty - exactly what is a god? Meaning, what is a god as opposed to anything else?

You have drawn conclusions concerning The God, but can you tell me exactly what a god actually is? If not, then how can you really conclude anything about The God?

1) A child believes in Santa Claus and is happy.
2) The child discovers it was just a story and becomes disheartened.
3) The child grows up and discovers that Christmas wasn't ever really about Santa Claus anyway.

You are at stage 2 concerning your image of God.

 

[mikenet2006]

Your absolutely right I was disheartened to say the least. I know there are multiple therioes of what God really is. So how can I dismiss something that is looked at in so many different ways, involving so many different varied stories? Probably for one is the fact that there are so many of these different stories and therorys. No two religions can agree on all points about the truth of it all. So no I cant tell you exatly what god is because Id have to be lucky enough to be describing what you may believe is true. However I can describe to you some
of the strong points that they typically share. They are usually based upon punishment or reward of some kind. This divides our people up into the rightious and the unrightious, or the holy and the unholey. The truth is that we are a reflection of the world in witch we were placed, and this world isnt perfect therefore niether are we. A real god would never under any circumstace abandon his own on the basis that we sometimes use our free will in unintended ways. The key word in that phrase being free will mind you. You dont give a race the vurtue of being blessed with the ability to make individual choices. Then set up this rule bookof sorts decribing the concequences of making so called bad choices. All this would be ok if punishment were a temporary thing. This would reflect that gods intentions are to make us learn from our mistakes so that we grow. The bible is so contradicting of itself im amazed that so many people cant see how humanized the story really is. It says that god forgives, but he doesnt. Religion remains today do to not only human nessecity but for many because of fear of rejection, and hope of some reward. Bottem line though, no matter what we do here we would always be looked at as one under the eyes of god. A reflection of the earth in witch he placed us. Imperfect but beautiful no matter what.

 

[dawiyd]

Im 23 now older..... wiser, and I belive I have figured out now what takes some a lifetime to realize. Maybee its part of human nature to have the want to believe in something greater than ourselfs. I say if its a good thing and it makes you happy continue to believe, I truly hope it gives you piece of mind.

Next time don't post in my formal debate thread bewteen me and Ronnee ok?

 

[mikenet2006]

Next time don't post in my formal debate thread bewteen me and Ronnee ok?

Sorry I had to post a couple of messages to get my post count up enough to talk to a friend. I tried to post in areas where I thought this topic would be relevent. Sorry I disturbed you.

 

[dawiyd]

Should not be in the same book, period. First off do you really think God would have taken the time to create a place for santin to continue to exsist? This is assuming God couldnt forsee that Lucifer would turn against him[/Quote[
Well considering Satan is a loyal and obedient servant of G-d with duties to perform. In new Jewish scripture did Satan rebel.

Someone with the wisdome to create the universe in seven days doesnt make mistakes. Creating hell and earth side by side giving santin the ability to steer his own people away from him makes about as much sense as putting a perfectly healty person in the same room with someone with a deadly airborn virus

Again Satan does as what G-d tells him to do.

For being gods most cherished creatures there sure is a lack of interest in the wellbeing of our lives and our souls, and id rather believe in no god than a god who considers eternity in hell to be justice for a failed life that last no more than 100 years

Define failed life.

Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

Sorry, have you visited any other universes and had a glimpse of any other Earth? You can't say this world is imperfect unless you can compare it to anything, because you don't have a reference point to what is perfect and what isn't. Then again you are also trying to perceive what G-d views as perfect with the mind of a mortal, which to be frank is impossible, what we may view as unfair and unjust doesn't even glimpse the grand plan of G-d.
Take all your knowledge of the world times it by infinity still you wouldn't even have a glimpse of what G-d grand plan for everyone is.

Mind you that the Chistians have narrowmindedly given in to the idea that if you believe in anything besides the lord Jesus Christ you go to hell.

Cool, still I'm not a Christian.

If you only understood the logic behind "THERE IS NO GOD CAPABLE OF ANY EVIL OR ABANDONMENT OF ANY KIND" then it would become clear to you as well.

Actually G-d created evil, he even says so himself.

 

[mikenet2006]

Ill address some of the things you brought up from start to finish.

MIKE

Should not be in the same book, period. First off do you really think God would have taken the time to create a place for santin to continue to exsist? This is assuming God couldnt forsee that Lucifer would turn against him

DAWIYD
Well considering Satan is a loyal and obedient servant of G-d with duties to perform. In new Jewish scripture did Satan rebel.


Now I may not know as many bible quotes, or have even read as much of it as you but I do know enough to say that Santin being cast out of heaven and into hell was not intended to be a fiqure of speach meaning he simply fell from power.

I know this by just going to church and reading what I have of the bible. There was a time when Lucifer was loyal, this is true, but even a child coming home from sunday school could tell you that the devel is no longer Gods right hand man and hasnt been for eons.

I seriously doubt that santin is currently tempting man kind, in an attempt steer us from God and all this while in heaven himself. Doest make sense to me. I wasn't aware Jews believed that.





MIKE

For being gods most cherished creatures there sure is a lack of interest in the wellbeing of our lives and our souls, and id rather believe in no god than a god who considers eternity in hell to be justice for a failed life that last no more than 100 years.

DAWIYD

define failed life

Im so glad you asked that because your right what the H_ll is a failed life? How do you fail so badly that God considers an eternity of misrible sorrow to be justice?

Equal or somewhat worse of a punishment than the sin or crime that you commited is justice. Justice is justice, and it needs to be there, so that makes sense to me.

However condeming someones soul for all eternity for anything that can be done here on earth is not justice and insane to say the least.





MIKE

Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

DAWIYD

Sorry, have you visited any other universes and had a glimpse of any other Earth? You can't say this world is imperfect unless you can compare it to anything, because you don't have a reference point to what is perfect and what isn't. Then again you are also trying to perceive what G-d views as perfect with the mind of a mortal, which to be frank is impossible, what we may view as unfair and unjust doesn't even glimpse the grand plan of G-d.

Take all your knowledge of the world times it by infinity still you wouldn't even have a glimpse of what G-d grand plan for everyone is.


In hte begggining GOd ctreaterd thesa EaRtH.

Look at that sentence, it looks a little off to me. Its obviously not perfect so what in the world could this mean? There wasnt a perfect version below it to make comparisons to but I used commen sense to figure it out.

You really cant see that this place isnt perfect without comparing it to some other world?

Apart from the bible itself saying it isnt perfect in more than one location, and mind you that should be enough. Open your eyes. use the same kind of judgement you used to see that sentence was flawed without looking at a side by side comparison.




MIKE

If you only understood the logic behind "THERE IS NO GOD CAPABLE OF ANY EVIL OR ABANDONMENT OF ANY KIND" then it would become clear to you as well.

DAWIYD

Actually G-d created evil, he even says so himself.

Well that is my reason for my disbelief dawiyd. Would god have created unpleasent aspects to our world to maintian balence....... absolutly. Would god have Created a type of evil that would consume over half of his own precious human race into a pemanent state of damnation?

Well no god that im willing to belive in, and ironically enough thats about the only reason I wont believe.

Explain this gloomy fate, for over half this planet being alowed by a god that is so wonderful and fair and you will be the first.

Ohh im sorry I didnt realize you were not a christian.

 

[ReluctantProphet]

Your absolutely right I was disheartened to say the least. I know there are multiple therioes of what God really is. ..

[FONT=&quot]The word "holy" comes from the concept of being "whole" or completely considerate of ALL things. "Allah" => ALL

A spirit refers to an effort or energy. Your spirit is your efforts, inspirations, and urges.

A "Holy Spirit" refers to a set of efforts which together balance the concerns of ALL things - the perfect state of mind to handle life.

Religions argue about which concepts are more perfect, who really exemplifies holiness and exactly what they should do because of it.

The word "god" comes from the old European sounds "ghe" and "odd". The "ghe" sound meant effort or spirit as in "go". The "odd" sound meant to be unique and complete unto itself much like it still means in the word "odd". Thus together the word sounds mean "spirit that is complete and unique unto itself".

This word can be used to describe many things. As they did this, they named the "gods". Moses explained that in reality there is but ONE that is truly complete and he proved his point. That god was given the special notation of "God" because it became clear that it was a god that was above in affect (or more foundational) than all others.

Logically you can deduce that God must then be the "effort of the universe itself". And as a simple answer that would be correct. But people need to know far more than such a brief description. They need to know exactly what this effort is and how it works.

Jewish law forbids a Jew from speaking what that method of the universe is. This of course, then leads to a lot of speculation and argument.

So they are not really arguing that there IS a God, just arguing over how that god really works - which is to say, "What God really wants".

The notion that very many Christians have throughout the West is that God is some mystical person floating around out there somewhere. Many interchange the word God with the term "Holy Spirit". This makes it a bit difficult to see how God could be so loving and yet arrange so many bad things.

In effect, if you believe in reality at all, then you believe in God. You simply call it something else and may or may not know any more than you did before. Realize that in ancient Hebrew the words for “I am that I am” are exactly the same as “It is what it is” – God just IS so deal with it. The Holy Spirit (effort) is HOW you deal with it.

The Holy Spirit is defined to be whatever effort actually deals with reality to your maximum benefit and is thus said to be "totally benevolent".

Many, for good reasons, have come to believe that pure love is actually that maximum beneficial effort and thus they say that God (really meaning the Holy Spirit) is "Love".

Now with all of this in mind, rethink everything you have concluded. Your perspective should change greatly along with your conclusions.

[/FONT]

 

[mikenet2006]

Remember when I said

"""Im not going to even attempt to explain every varieation it would take all night but usually they have one thing in commen, and that is the myth of hell. As long as its there as far as im concered heaven isnt either, nor God for that matter."""



Now commonley people here in the states do believe in God as being a thinking entity. What im gathering your speaking of is a God of essence. God is in everything in otherwords. That makes more sense to me than a God who was up there conscienely making choices. Ive actually never stated on this website the thing I do believe.

Im not an Atheist because from what I understand they dont believe in anything.

What your describing is fine and factual as long as it follows one very important principle. That being that there are no eternities.

Considering that everything in the known universe and as far as we can see with a telescope in fact is based on constant change. I believe that change continues.

What I strongly believe in is reincarnation and this is the first time ive spoken less about what I dont believe, and more of what I do believe to anyone here.

I believe this because I wouldnt want to imagine an eternity of anything whether it be good or bad, id get bored in eternity even if it wasnt in hell. The only thing that is logical to me infact is an eternity of constent change. Nothing is grim this way because before anyting gets the chance to become boring or reputitious, suddenly we are looking at the universe through a new set of eyes, And because there is nobody up there with a rule book "quite ridiculous you're right about that" I believe that what, and where we come back will be a very random thing. Lets say there are 30 billion species on this planet. If thats accurate than the chance that we would come back as a human would therefore be 1/30billion. Even less perhaps if there is life elsewhere in the universe and thats something I am almost positive of. We have been here before in theory as well, because time has stetched backward for eternity and it will stretch foward for eternity to come. However with every death your slate is wiped clean in a sense. This gives you no recolect of previously exsisting in another form.

I dont believe that time is anything more than being simply one of mans many attempts to measure what he sees around him in order to give us some sort of refference to things. But there was no true beggining to all things and there will never be an end either. So if your thinking that something had to be there to start things off youre wrong because there never was a beggining.

Just like there is no up and down in reality either, its simpley mans attempt to measure what he sees. If your american right now up means something totaly different than someone in china for example. Space is really 3 dimentional, stretching for eternity in all directions just like time. Einstein tried to explain this to the world and some people still dont quite follow what he meant.

Reincarnation to me is the most likely truth of all therioes imagined by man, its also the most promising because if you lived a painfull life with some terrible disease, its only a temporary experience and who knows what card you're gonna be dealed next.

This is also the theory that reflects reality most accuratly.

 

[RatzingerRocks]

Im 23 now older..... wiser, and I belive I have figured out now what takes some a lifetime to realize. Maybee its part of human nature to have the want to believe in something greater than ourselfs. I say if its a good thing and it makes you happy continue to believe, I truly hope it gives you piece of mind.

I myself have come to the conclusion that there is no god, And my reasoning for this is heart felt, and I really gave it a shot and no body who knows me in my life would say otherwise.

There was a time when I believed. In fact I studied religion more than any teen who wasnt destine to become a priest. I even tried to spread the word of God to many people in my life.

Do you know what it was that turned me away? You're probably thinking it's the petty age old assumption that if you cant prove something you cant put you're faith into it. Nope, infact I believe in life beyond earth despite the fact there isnt a shread of proof. Im very open minded, and I will put my efforts into something I believe in my heart to be genuine regardless of the evedence.

I was also willing to accept many things if it helped me to come to terms with God. I was willing to accept that pain and suffering are a part of life as it plays a part in the delicate balence that makes earth such a beautiful thing. One example is that for every creature that dies in the wild another will consume what it needs to survive another day, another may be the fact that to appreciate the summer sometimes you have to rough out the winter, or in order to appreciate the one you love most sometimes you have to know what its like to be without them. All these hardships I can accept from god because it makes sense. What dosent make sense is Hell, and its something I'll never accept, and I'll go into great detail to tell you why.

Hell, hmm lets say we could remove that from history for a sec, guess what? I believe in God just like that. Why? Because hell throws the whole story out of wack.

"""God is just, God is fair""" and this quote

"""If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15:6.

Should not be in the same book, period. First off do you really think God would have taken the time to create a place for santin to continue to exsist? This is assuming God couldnt forsee that Lucifer would turn against him. Someone with the wisdome to create the universe in seven days doesnt make mistakes. Creating hell and earth side by side giving santin the ability to steer his own people away from him makes about as much sense as putting a perfectly healty person in the same room with someone with a deadly airborn virus. For being gods most cherished creatures there sure is a lack of interest in the wellbeing of our lives and our souls, and id rather believe in no god than a god who considers eternity in hell to be justice for a failed life that last no more than 100 years. Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

There is not a priest, or even a pope that will ever explain this, and its because there are no answers for questions as targeted as these, and the bible has these holes in the storyline because it was written by man, and man alone. Without the aid of god. Perhaps this is why the bible is based upon principals that suggest extreem punishment and torture for sin is just. Look at the times it was written in 1445 bc through 90 ac. Very barbaric times infact, when torture was often used prior to exicutions. Every part of the bible reflects the era it was written in. Is this a coincidence?

Beyond this overwhelming evidence there are other things that strike me as obvious signs of gods absence.
For example Like I said before The bible reflects mans ideologies of right, wrong, good, and evil. So does it really supprise anyone here that there are literaly hundreds of different religions that stray from the bibles version of what the truth is? As the people of this planet have varied from era to era and from place to place so have their views of what the truth is. Everything reflects culture, One obvious example of this would be some of your tribal communities in Africa beliving in the gods of the sun, and the gods of the moon. Why do you think they worship things such as these as being their God? Is it perhaps that they live by the vertue of nature? Their lifes are directly connected to nature as they live themselfs under the stars at night and in the jungle by day. It doesnt surprise me in the least that so many alternate religions have always exsisted. Mind you that the Chistians have narrowmindedly given in to the idea that if you believe in anything besides the lord Jesus Christ you go to hell.

Hell! That word! And the idea behind it makes me weep for the wellbeing of our own. And there is no way, and I mean no way, that any god no matter what version you belive in would punish anybody to the extent that most religions suggest. Gods most cherished of all creatures the human being.......... Hmm. It doesnt fit guys, not anymore and it never will again for me.

If you only understood the logic behind "THERE IS NO GOD CAPABLE OF ANY EVIL OR ABANDONMENT OF ANY KIND" then it would become clear to you as well.

I stand before each and every single one of you now and say that if I am wrong and my time comes to stand before God This is about what ill have to say...

I tried my hardest, I used the tools you gave me to live a life of choices. Choices that you gave me as well as the rest of us. You say I was mislead God, but you have lead us all into a situation that jeapordises our eternal souls. You have abandon many for making decisions that you declare are abominations rendering us unworty of your acceptence, and now you will abandon me. So if this is the end for me then so be it because you know what?

This time around I am the one who doesnt accept YOU.


Is there a God? Not like this my friends, not like this.

Any God who denies us the option of hell is not a good God but a cosmic tyrant.

Besides that you can be a non-Christain Theist so hell is a rediculious agument aghinst the concept of God.

 

[mikenet2006]

Any God who denies us the option of hell is not a good God but a cosmic tyrant.

Besides that you can be a non-Christain Theist so hell is a rediculious agument aghinst the concept of God.

Elaborate on that it was a bit vague

 

[Sojourner<><]

Greetings mikenet2006

Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

No offense, but how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[mikenet2006]

Greetings mikenet2006

No offense, but how did you come to this conclusion?

I havent come to that conclusion myself at all. I am describing from personal experience what is very commonly believed by others. Describing this type of irrational thinking is the driving force behind my conclusion of there being no god in the sense that many see god as being.

Now what is true about that is the fact that we are not perfect and neither is earth. The thing that is false would be believing that God doesnt take this into consideration when we fail in our life. Assuming your one who see's god as being an actual being or consienceness, And this is believed by more people than you may think.

I cant assume what everybody here believes, therefore consider that I am speaking of the vast majority of people who follow the bible, not everybody.

Its suggested this way every day in church, in movies, in social groups ive been in, even in our music. You have to understand that it is very commonly believed, especially by the christians, that god decided after making us weak and frail to then give us life choices to make. This would be ok if it didnt involve the gloomy fate for those who make choices that are perhaps self destructive and lead us away from god as I have said before.

 

[elman]

Im 23 now older..... wiser, and I belive I have figured out now what takes some a lifetime to realize. Maybee its part of human nature to have the want to believe in something greater than ourselfs. I say if its a good thing and it makes you happy continue to believe, I truly hope it gives you piece of mind.

I myself have come to the conclusion that there is no god, And my reasoning for this is heart felt, and I really gave it a shot and no body who knows me in my life would say otherwise.

There was a time when I believed. In fact I studied religion more than any teen who wasnt destine to become a priest. I even tried to spread the word of God to many people in my life.

Do you know what it was that turned me away? You're probably thinking it's the petty age old assumption that if you cant prove something you cant put you're faith into it. Nope, infact I believe in life beyond earth despite the fact there isnt a shread of proof. Im very open minded, and I will put my efforts into something I believe in my heart to be genuine regardless of the evedence.

I was also willing to accept many things if it helped me to come to terms with God. I was willing to accept that pain and suffering are a part of life as it plays a part in the delicate balence that makes earth such a beautiful thing. One example is that for every creature that dies in the wild another will consume what it needs to survive another day, another may be the fact that to appreciate the summer sometimes you have to rough out the winter, or in order to appreciate the one you love most sometimes you have to know what its like to be without them. All these hardships I can accept from god because it makes sense. What dosent make sense is Hell, and its something I'll never accept, and I'll go into great detail to tell you why.

Hell, hmm lets say we could remove that from history for a sec, guess what? I believe in God just like that. Why? Because hell throws the whole story out of wack.

"""God is just, God is fair""" and this quote

"""If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned." John 15:6.

Should not be in the same book, period. First off do you really think God would have taken the time to create a place for santin to continue to exsist? This is assuming God couldnt forsee that Lucifer would turn against him. Someone with the wisdome to create the universe in seven days doesnt make mistakes. Creating hell and earth side by side giving santin the ability to steer his own people away from him makes about as much sense as putting a perfectly healty person in the same room with someone with a deadly airborn virus. For being gods most cherished creatures there sure is a lack of interest in the wellbeing of our lives and our souls, and id rather believe in no god than a god who considers eternity in hell to be justice for a failed life that last no more than 100 years. Mind you that he makes us imperfect, puts us here in an imperfect world, proceeds to give us choices, then punishes us for making the wrong ones.

There is not a priest, or even a pope that will ever explain this, and its because there are no answers for questions as targeted as these, and the bible has these holes in the storyline because it was written by man, and man alone. Without the aid of god. Perhaps this is why the bible is based upon principals that suggest extreem punishment and torture for sin is just. Look at the times it was written in 1445 bc through 90 ac. Very barbaric times infact, when torture was often used prior to exicutions. Every part of the bible reflects the era it was written in. Is this a coincidence?

Beyond this overwhelming evidence there are other things that strike me as obvious signs of gods absence.
For example Like I said before The bible reflects mans ideologies of right, wrong, good, and evil. So does it really supprise anyone here that there are literaly hundreds of different religions that stray from the bibles version of what the truth is? As the people of this planet have varied from era to era and from place to place so have their views of what the truth is. Everything reflects culture, One obvious example of this would be some of your tribal communities in Africa beliving in the gods of the sun, and the gods of the moon. Why do you think they worship things such as these as being their God? Is it perhaps that they live by the vertue of nature? Their lifes are directly connected to nature as they live themselfs under the stars at night and in the jungle by day. It doesnt surprise me in the least that so many alternate religions have always exsisted. Mind you that the Chistians have narrowmindedly given in to the idea that if you believe in anything besides the lord Jesus Christ you go to hell.

Hell! That word! And the idea behind it makes me weep for the wellbeing of our own. And there is no way, and I mean no way, that any god no matter what version you belive in would punish anybody to the extent that most religions suggest. Gods most cherished of all creatures the human being.......... Hmm. It doesnt fit guys, not anymore and it never will again for me.

If you only understood the logic behind "THERE IS NO GOD CAPABLE OF ANY EVIL OR ABANDONMENT OF ANY KIND" then it would become clear to you as well.

I stand before each and every single one of you now and say that if I am wrong and my time comes to stand before God This is about what ill have to say...

I tried my hardest, I used the tools you gave me to live a life of choices. Choices that you gave me as well as the rest of us. You say I was mislead God, but you have lead us all into a situation that jeapordises our eternal souls. You have abandon many for making decisions that you declare are abominations rendering us unworty of your acceptence, and now you will abandon me. So if this is the end for me then so be it because you know what?

This time around I am the one who doesnt accept YOU.


Is there a God? Not like this my friends, not like this.

You have got the existence of God confused with the existence of a man made idea of hell. It is very simple. Hell is death or non existence, nothing more, nothing less. God is love. He will give us eternal spiritual life if we are loving to each other. If we are not we face the destiny of nonthingness-death-hell-bottomless pit, second death, lake of fire-eternal destruction- whatever defintiion of hell you take or consider, it is not life in pain after death. It is death and not life.

 

[elman]

I havent come to that conclusion myself at all. I am describing from personal experience what is very commonly believed by others. Describing this type of irrational thinking is the driving force behind my conclusion of there being no god in the sense that many see god as being.

Now what is true about that is the fact that we are not perfect and neither is earth. The thing that is false would be believing that God doesnt take this into consideration when we fail in our life. Assuming your one who see's god as being an actual being or consienceness, And this is believed by more people than you may think.

I cant assume what everybody here believes, therefore consider that I am speaking of the vast majority of people who follow the bible, not everybody.

Its suggested this way every day in church, in movies, in social groups ive been in, even in our music. You have to understand that it is very commonly believed, especially by the christians, that god decided after making us weak and frail to then give us life choices to make. This would be ok if it didnt involve the gloomy fate for those who make choices that are perhaps self destructive and lead us away from god as I have said before.

No one, not even one person has a correct theology-James 3:2 That does not mean God does not exist. It simply means that none of us are God. God is perfect and loving. No man or group of men is perfect or perfectly loving. That is why if any are to be saved from eternal death, grace will be needed. Why are you getting so concerned about so many people having an imperect theology? Everyone has an imperfect theology.

 

[elman]

Any God who denies us the option of hell is not a good God but a cosmic tyrant.

Besides that you can be a non-Christain Theist so hell is a rediculious agument aghinst the concept of God.

Hell is a man made idea. If you are referring to life in pain after physical death. It is not from God. If you are referring to hell as death then that is from God. One can easily be Christian and not believe in life in pain after death.