This class is driving me crazy!!!

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pax

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What a week...

I mentioned a few months ago that I have a class where the professors (there are 2) advocate a relativistic world-view. They have said that relativism is a more mature way of thinking and have referred to beliefs in absolute truth as psychologically unhealthy. This past week we have been talking about homosexuality and I can't handle it anymore. Based on some of the notes that were put up I am homophobic and intolerant because I view homosexual behavior as sinful. We briefly addressed the religious arguments against homosexual acts but I did not really believe anything anyone said was taken seriously. Tomorrow they're bringing in speakers from the gay-straight alliance so we can learn about what coming out of the closet is like on a college campus. I don't really know why I am posting this here, but I could really use some prayers.

Thanks a lot and God bless!
 

Miss Shelby

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I'll definitley pray for you. FWIW, this is how it is generally speaking in college, I just love it when they label conservatives who don't think like they do 'uneducated'...have you run into that one yet?

Hang in there, pax I know it must be tough. I worked with a young girl last year and she attended a liberal arts college and she would actually get a lower grade if were to hand in a paper which expressed disagreement with the morality of homosexuality.

Praying for you... you'll come out stronger in the end because you have a good sound foundation to work with. Just think of all the kids who go in not knowing what you know....by the time they graduate alot of them are probably dumber than when they first enrolled.

Michelle
 
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CuriousityKilledThe

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Did you major in social sciences, Mariae?

I'm corrently working on my undergrad degree in anthropology. It is a very liberal field philosophically, in terms of the people who are in it, but I still very much enjoy much of the insights the field as a whole has had to offer me.

Besides, I like being a minority, marching to the beat of a different drummer. You have a better and stronger understanding of your own views if you are actively measuring them against people of different opinions.
 
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Atomagenesis

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If you can, you need to get out of that school and transfer to my school! Ave Maria University! Anyway, if they are anything of a good philsopher, which they are obviously not, they would have read Plato's Symposium where he basically bashes homosexuality and proves it to be disorderly. And you can just tell them the parts don't fit, and it destroys families because you have no family with two homo's because they can't make babies!!!

If they say relativism if a higher form of philosophy they obviously have no idea of what unity, clarity and perfection is. They have no idea what a Platonic Form is. A huge problem with your professor(s) is that they are putting their sinfully tainted opinion into the philosophy when they should be presenting to you the material and allowing you to decide on your own. I cannot stress enough how important it is to find a good school.

As a philosophy major I can tell you that this is not going to help your philisophical views as a Catholic and as a human being. You are going to be taught things that are absolutely wrong, which you may end up beleiving as the truth. I know because this happened to me at my community college, but then I came here and I was shown what the problems were with a lot of the arguments I was given. Philosophy is a very important part of human existence because it helps us come closer to God. If it is being presented to you in a debased way, you need to get out! I would also stress studying philosophy on your own outside of class from Catholic philosopher's so that you can totally debunk whatever trash they are presenting to you. I know because I had to do this in my secular school!

Ah, you really, really, really need to get out of a secular school. They are pit holes of vile.

God bless
 
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CuriousityKilledThe

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Atomagenesis said:
If you can, you need to get out of that school and transfer to my school! Ave Maria University! Anyway, if they are anything of a good philsopher, which they are obviously not, they would have read Plato's Symposium where he basically bashes homosexuality and dis-orderly. And you can just tell them the parts don't fit, and it destroys families because you have no family with two homo's because they can't make babies!!!!!!!

Ah, you really, really, really need to get out of a secular school. They are pit holes of vile.

God bless

Homosexuality, particularly pederasty, was a part of the ancient elite Greek culture. Plato wrote many plays, most of them featuring his teacher, Socrates, where homosexuality was present as a theme (See his work titled Charmides).

Plato actually argues in support of homosexuality in the Symposium. Part of his arguments is that the army should be composed of pairs of man-boy lovers.

See:

Wikipedia Article on Symposium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symposium_%28Plato%29

"The more controversial question concerns Socrates' sexual inclinations. The Symposium illustrates the widespread nature of pederasty in ancient Greek society. Not only was it considered admirable, but the Symposium presents an argument that claims a love of a man for adolescent boys to be superior to heterosexuality."

Wikipedia article on Pederasty
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pederasty

Disclaimer:
I am by no means supporting or condoning pederasty here. It's just that, as an academic, I think it's important to set the facts straight (Plato was part of a culture in which homosexuality played a strong role, the Symposium actually condoned homosexuality and was not against it). Just putting the facts on the table, so to speak. Like any good academic, I cited my sources! ;)
 
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Atomagenesis

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You need to re-read the Symposium!

They only used homosexuality as examples of desire that was disorderly. Obviously the divided line proves this, and the ladder of love as well!

I would not read some liberal trash like wikipedia to tell us what Plato was saying in the Symposium.

God bless
 
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Wolseley

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Ah, relativism. ^_^ "Every personal belief system is equal, as long as you believe it." I'm okay, you're okay, blah, blah, blah.

I remember one psych prof I had who actually had resurrected the old game of "Lifeboat" for the course we were taking.

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with this particular bit of nonsense, "Lifeboat" is a game in "values clarification". It used to be used in high schools back in the 1970's, and it goes (with variations) sort of like this:

A ship hits an iceberg and sinks. In one lifeboat, there are several people: an old man in his 70's with a heart condition, and old lady in her 80's with terminal cancer, a young girl in her 20's on her way to meet her fiance, a young man in his late teens taking a vacation before going off to college, an award-winning brain surgeon, and a best-selling novelist.

Unfortunately, there is only enough food in the lifeboat to feed four people, not six.....so, the point of the game is that you have to figure out which two people you're going to throw overboard, which two you're going to sacrifice so the others can live. (Naturally, there is no choice of rationing food, sharing your portions with the others, etc.; it's set up so two people die regardless.)

You were given ten minutes to think things over, and then the prof went around the room, asking each student who was saved and who was drowned, and why---keeping in mind all the time, of course, that supposedly there were no "right" answers; it's all relative.

Naturally, most of the students chose to chuck the old man and old woman overboard, rationalizing it by saying, "Well, they're elderly, and lived a long life, while the kids are just getting started.....besides, they're both in ill health, and will be dead before long anyway, so you're really just hastening the inevitable", etc., etc.

It came around to me, and I said, "The young woman and the young man go overboard."

There was a sort of startled gasp, and the prof raised his eyebrows, and said, "That's an interesting choice. Care to illustrate how you arrived at it?"

I said, "Sure. I'm basing this on my value system. All values are equal, as you said."

"That's right," the prof said. "No one value system is above any other system."

"Good," I said. "So, for the purposes of this exercise, we'll say that my value system is that I am a 100% committed Nazi. That's my value system. Now, the old man is in ill health, sure, but he's very rich, and has made very generous contributions to the Nazi Party. So he has to be kept alive at all costs. The old woman was once a hotel landlady in Vienna, and she was very kind to the Fuhrer when he lived there as a young man. So she has to be saved.

The young woman, while attractive, is also a Jew, so she is simply a subhuman species anyway, so if we toss her overboard, it'll save us the time and expense of gassing her later, and the same for the young man, who is a Gypsy---if we drown him now, we won't have to bother shooting him later."

By now, every kid in the class was gazing at me in goggle-eyed horror, and the professor was angry, because he was smart enough to see that I'd turned the tables on his silly little game and used it against him, while still technically remaining within the rules of the exercise. He made some gruff comment about "making light of the exercise, not taking this seriously", and I said, "But if all value systems are the same, what sort of value judgements would a committed Nazi be expected to make?"

He brushed this off and went on to something else rather rapidly, being highly annoyed that I had just torpedoed his classroom exercise.

So much for relativism. They like those high liberal ideals about diversity and inclusiveness and multiculturalism and all that baloney, just as long as the diverse cultures they want to include are something they agree with or admire. Throw something they don't agree with into the mix, and you never saw somebody's prejudice come out so fast in your life.
 
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Woodsy

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Wolseley said:
the professor was angry, because he was smart enough to see that I'd turned the tables on his silly little game and used it against him, while still technically remaining within the rules of the exercise. He made some gruff comment about "making light of the exercise, not taking this seriously", and I said, "But if all value systems are the same, what sort of value judgements would a committed Nazi be expected to make?"

:thumbsup: Excellent!!!
 
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s_gunter

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Wolseley said:
Ah, relativism. ^_^ "Every personal belief system is equal, as long as you believe it." I'm okay, you're okay, blah, blah, blah.

I remember one psych prof I had who actually had resurrected the old game of "Lifeboat" for the course we were taking.

For those of you who may be unfamiliar with this particular bit of nonsense, "Lifeboat" is a game in "values clarification". It used to be used in high schools back in the 1970's, and it goes (with variations) sort of like this:

A ship hits an iceberg and sinks. In one lifeboat, there are several people: an old man in his 70's with a heart condition, and old lady in her 80's with terminal cancer, a young girl in her 20's on her way to meet her fiance, a young man in his late teens taking a vacation before going off to college, an award-winning brain surgeon, and a best-selling novelist.

Unfortunately, there is only enough food in the lifeboat to feed four people, not six.....so, the point of the game is that you have to figure out which two people you're going to throw overboard, which two you're going to sacrifice so the others can live. (Naturally, there is no choice of rationing food, sharing your portions with the others, etc.; it's set up so two people die regardless.)

You were given ten minutes to think things over, and then the prof went around the room, asking each student who was saved and who was drowned, and why---keeping in mind all the time, of course, that supposedly there were no "right" answers; it's all relative.

Naturally, most of the students chose to chuck the old man and old woman overboard, rationalizing it by saying, "Well, they're elderly, and lived a long life, while the kids are just getting started.....besides, they're both in ill health, and will be dead before long anyway, so you're really just hastening the inevitable", etc., etc.

It came around to me, and I said, "The young woman and the young man go overboard."

There was a sort of startled gasp, and the prof raised his eyebrows, and said, "That's an interesting choice. Care to illustrate how you arrived at it?"

I said, "Sure. I'm basing this on my value system. All values are equal, as you said."

"That's right," the prof said. "No one value system is above any other system."

"Good," I said. "So, for the purposes of this exercise, we'll say that my value system is that I am a 100% committed Nazi. That's my value system. Now, the old man is in ill health, sure, but he's very rich, and has made very generous contributions to the Nazi Party. So he has to be kept alive at all costs. The old woman was once a hotel landlady in Vienna, and she was very kind to the Fuhrer when he lived there as a young man. So she has to be saved.

The young woman, while attractive, is also a Jew, so she is simply a subhuman species anyway, so if we toss her overboard, it'll save us the time and expense of gassing her later, and the same for the young man, who is a Gypsy---if we drown him now, we won't have to bother shooting him later."

By now, every kid in the class was gazing at me in goggle-eyed horror, and the professor was angry, because he was smart enough to see that I'd turned the tables on his silly little game and used it against him, while still technically remaining within the rules of the exercise. He made some gruff comment about "making light of the exercise, not taking this seriously", and I said, "But if all value systems are the same, what sort of value judgements would a committed Nazi be expected to make?"

He brushed this off and went on to something else rather rapidly, being highly annoyed that I had just torpedoed his classroom exercise.

So much for relativism. They like those high liberal ideals about diversity and inclusiveness and multiculturalism and all that baloney, just as long as the diverse cultures they want to include are something they agree with or admire. Throw something they don't agree with into the mix, and you never saw somebody's prejudice come out so fast in your life.

Man, where are you guys going to school? I was actually graded higher for behavior like this during my brief stint in college. Yes I did attend a secular schools, public schools through high school, and then the local community college. We must really have a different set of values here in the rural south. (I must say that I wouldn't know what comes out of the urban schools though. Don't have experience with it....)
 
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DJ B.K.

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My public school isn't too great either. There was actually an editorial in the opinion article saying that conservatism was some stupid idea that people were supposed to get rid of in college, they actually did publish a response though that said not to label all conservatives stupid. I guess they aren't too bad though b/c they agreed that Bill Bennett they guy that made those controversal comments awhile ago about blacks, did have the right to make an appearance even though they didn't agree with him. Not that I'm a total conservative politically. Religously I guess I am for the most part. I don't know if I'd consider all of secular school pit holes of vile, but it's not like it matters because I can't afford to go to one of those approved Catholic schools anyway.
 
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Miss Shelby

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Wolseley said:
So much for relativism. They like those high liberal ideals about diversity and inclusiveness and multiculturalism and all that baloney, just as long as the diverse cultures they want to include are something they agree with or admire. Throw something they don't agree with into the mix, and you never saw somebody's prejudice come out so fast in your life.
Nailed it.

Michelle
 
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Teshi

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CuriousityKilledThe said:
Did you major in social sciences, Mariae?

I'm corrently working on my undergrad degree in anthropology. It is a very liberal field philosophically, in terms of the people who are in it, but I still very much enjoy much of the insights the field as a whole has had to offer me.

Besides, I like being a minority, marching to the beat of a different drummer. You have a better and stronger understanding of your own views if you are actively measuring them against people of different opinions.

Yuppers, this has been my experience as well. Even if you don't agree with people, you can definitely learn from them. It's a valuable experience.
 
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SmileBugMG

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Pit holes of vile to be avoided at all costs? Hardly. I go to Pittsburgh (heheh Pitt hole. Sorry.) and a lot of crap does happen I'll be the first to agree. But how can we expect it to get any better if all the Christians run away and hide in Bible colleges and uber-Catholic school like Ave Maria? We need to engage with the world if we are to transform it. And so many people going to school don't really know where they stand, can we just leave them to be devoured by moral relativism and whatever other agendas they are indoctrinated with? I don't think so. It's very important to have a strong Christian absolutist presence at secular universities.
 
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Miss Shelby

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pax said:
Thanks for the advice and prayers. I really appreciate it. Class today wasn't too bad, but it seems like everyone's beliefs got representation except for my own...
Well, continue to hang in.. I admire you and I know that you will have influence, even if it's only with a few people. :) :hug:

Michelle
 
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