This Boggles My Mind!

[Swan7]

Going through the Bible again and again I keep seeing the same word over again. Man or men - and then woman of iniquities and the other woman - Bride of Christ. I know these are symbolic, but what I'm asking is why aren't there any female angels. Why is it always a man that people see in scripture when the angel(s) descend?

Matthew 22:23-33

Does this mean our souls are genderless?

 

[High Fidelity]

Going through the Bible again and again I keep seeing the same word over again. Man or men - and then woman of iniquities and the other woman - Bride of Christ. I know these are symbolic, but what I'm asking is why aren't there any female angels. Why is it always a man that people see in scripture when the angel(s) descend?

Matthew 22:23-33

Does this mean our souls are genderless?

Angels and Humans are not the same. As to your question, I can't be sure. I'll have to have a look in to it

 

[Seeking-Wisdom]

In Revelation it discusses after the 1000 year reign of the Son of Man and after the Final Battle with Satan that the New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven.

Revelation 21:1-2(NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 (NIV)

The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.



As to why there are no female angels, The Book of Enoch tells us that the Angels were immortal, they did not need to reproduce so they did not need any females.

Book of Enoch Chapter 15 (R.H.Charles)

1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice.
2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you:
3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?
4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish.
5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth.
6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world.
7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.
8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling.
9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called.
[10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.]
11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.

Enoch also helps interpret:

Genesis 6:1-4 (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

The Bible is very patriarchal, and angels are not humans.

 

[Swan7]

In Revelation it discusses after the 1000 year reign of the Son of Man and after the Final Battle with Satan that the New Jerusalem will come down from Heaven.

Revelation 21:1-2(NIV)
A New Heaven and a New Earth
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband.

Revelation 21:9-10 (NIV)

The New Jerusalem, the Bride of the Lamb
9 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and said to me, “Come, I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.” 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the Holy City, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.



As to why there are no female angels, The Book of Enoch tells us that the Angels were immortal, they did not need to reproduce so they did not need any females.

Ok, that makes perfect sense to me so far. I know that Christ will marry the church, I'm wondering if that suggests we keep our bodies in heaven as Christ was resurrected...?

Book of Enoch Chapter 15 (R.H.Charles)

1. And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice.
2. And go, say to ⌈⌈the Watchers of heaven⌉⌉, who have sent thee to intercede ⌈⌈for them: "You should intercede"⌉⌉ for men, and not men for you:
3. Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?
4. And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those ⌈also⌉ do who die and perish.
5. Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth.
6. But you were ⌈formerly⌉ spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world.
7. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.
8. And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling.
9. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men, ⌈⌈and⌉⌉ from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; ⌈they shall be evil spirits on earth, and⌉ evil spirits shall they be called.
[10. As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.]
11. And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, ⌈but nevertheless hunger⌉ and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded ⌈from them⌉.

Enoch also helps interpret:

Genesis 6:1-4 (KJV)
6 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the earth, and daughters were born unto them,
2 That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
3 And the Lord said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years.
4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.

Where I have underlined still suggests that these angels are male, even so far as to think the women of the earth were fair...

Thanks for posting this, I'll keep re-reading these chapters.

 

[Swan7]

The Bible is very patriarchal, and angels are not humans.

No they're not, however the Bible still suggests they are male.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

No they're not, however the Bible still suggests they are male.

In essence, yes, they are male. Just as God Himself is referred to as 'He', so to are angels very male in their ways.

Humans, however, have direct sexuality.

*and they are patriarchal

 

[Swan7]

I totally agree with you. I guess I should re-direct my question to 'where do females fit in His plan?'

 

[com7fy8]

'where do females fit in His plan?'

I'm not smart enough to figure out what women are really for, in God's plan and His understanding. I might have a better "chance" of figuring God out! But I am so glad and thankful we have our ladies of Jesus.

I do think of how certain scripture interpretation says Eve was Adam's helpmate. And I keep discovering how Jesus ladies help me find out how to love, helping me to get correction and encouragement to have compassion.

 

[JCFantasy23]

I totally agree with you. I guess I should re-direct my question to 'where do females fit in His plan?'

I'm not threatened by all the angels seeming to be male, to me this doesn't shed any strange doubt on female/humans. I'm sure He has a reason that we may know one day. I always found it funny how so much artwork and statues and such is focused on female angels, but there weren't any mentioned in the bible. Perhaps they exist, who knows, although God didn't show any. We kind of took off with it with our imaginations.

 

[com7fy8]

I'm not threatened by all the angels seeming to be male, to me this doesn't shed any strange doubt on female/humans. I'm sure He has a reason that we may know one day. I always found it funny how so much artwork and statues and such is focused on female angels, but there weren't any mentioned in the bible. Perhaps they exist, who knows, although God didn't show any. We kind of took off with it with our imaginations.

I suppose that at some points in history and certain places, people would not see men as being ones you could use as images of angels. It was more like a girl or a mother could be an "angel". Possibly there were times when religious leaders were the exact opposite and even tyrannical and murderous; so an artist might have been making a statement by making an angel "female".

By the scripture, I see that Paul says that in Jesus "there is neither male nor female" > in Galatians 3:28.

So, I consider . . . your body might be male or female, but deeper your true identity has to do with how you are either in Satan's kingdom or "one spirit with Jesus" (1 Corinthians 6:17). What is true of your body, then, has nothing to do with your real identity.

So, if we are in God's image and we are not male or female . . . possibly, this means God is neither He nor She . . . spiritually. But such terms can be images, for bringing out how He is and all we should expect with Him.

God is our Father; "Father" is a family term; so we understand that with God we will be in family love. And though He might be in higher position than Jesus, in family love all are equal. Therefore, our identity and value has nothing to do with how high or low we are in position, or who is obeying whom. But in God's love we all are God's own children, loved by Him in His own love >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, what matters is how God's holy angels are beings of His own love and they are doing His loving actions. And I consider this is our example . . . required of us . . . not for us to just be using angels or God; but how God and His angels are with us is our example required of us, also >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

Oh, I remember that our Apostle Paul says he loved the Thessalonians >

"just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:11)

So, I see that Paul had Christian women who were his role model for how to love . . . as family. Then he says,

"as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children," (1 Thessalonians 2:11)

So, in God's love they could love in every good family way of loving; they were not limited in their identity to what gender their bodies were. But in God's love we grow in every good ability of how to love; and angels help in ministering this to us. Paul became "all things to all men", he says; so "maybe" he could relate as the person each one needed at the time. If we need a lady angel, an angel might appear or minister like a lady; if we need a daddy angel, he might minister as a daddy . . . or as a big brother, but with authority.

So, yes angels are not for putting on a show of power and superiority, but for ministering us into God's family caring and sharing love >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

 

[Swan7]

I suppose that at some points in history and certain places, people would not see men as being ones you could use as images of angels. It was more like a girl or a mother could be an "angel". Possibly there were times when religious leaders were the exact opposite and even tyrannical and murderous; so an artist might have been making a statement by making an angel "female".

By the scripture, I see that Paul says that in Jesus "there is neither male nor female" > in Galatians 3:28.

So, I consider . . . your body might be male or female, but deeper your true identity has to do with how you are either in Satan's kingdom or "one spirit with Jesus" (1 Corinthians 6:17). What is true of your body, then, has nothing to do with your real identity.

So, if we are in God's image and we are not male or female . . . possibly, this means God is neither He nor She . . . spiritually. But such terms can be images, for bringing out how He is and all we should expect with Him.

God is our Father; "Father" is a family term; so we understand that with God we will be in family love. And though He might be in higher position than Jesus, in family love all are equal. Therefore, our identity and value has nothing to do with how high or low we are in position, or who is obeying whom. But in God's love we all are God's own children, loved by Him in His own love >

"Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us." (Romans 5:5)

So, what matters is how God's holy angels are beings of His own love and they are doing His loving actions. And I consider this is our example . . . required of us . . . not for us to just be using angels or God; but how God and His angels are with us is our example required of us, also >

"Let all that you do be done with love." (1 Corinthians 16:14)

Oh, I remember that our Apostle Paul says he loved the Thessalonians >

"just as a nursing mother cherishes her own children." (in 1 Thessalonians 2:11)

So, I see that Paul had Christian women who were his role model for how to love . . . as family. Then he says,

"as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children," (1 Thessalonians 2:11)

So, in God's love they could love in every good family way of loving; they were not limited in their identity to what gender their bodies were. But in God's love we grow in every good ability of how to love; and angels help in ministering this to us. Paul became "all things to all men", he says; so "maybe" he could relate as the person each one needed at the time. If we need a lady angel, an angel might appear or minister like a lady; if we need a daddy angel, he might minister as a daddy . . . or as a big brother, but with authority.

So, yes angels are not for putting on a show of power and superiority, but for ministering us into God's family caring and sharing love >

"nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock." (1 Peter 5:3)

Thanks. I think I'm just beginning to grasp this. Sometimes it's hard for me to think outside of this world we live in.

 

[Reformed Lutheran]

Women are special creatures created by God in a special way.. Remember at the creation, there was a "male" God, "male" angels and then the male Adam. There were no females/women!

But in creation there was not found a suitable companion for Adam,, so God removed one of Adams ribs and from it he created the Woman. A special purposeful creation for the glory of man and glory of God.

 

[com7fy8]

Ones say that God used a rib of Adam, because the rib was close to Adam's heart. So, I would say, most of all, a lady is for love

She was not made from a toe so she would be underfoot, nor an ear so she could just listen to him, or from his hand so she could just help him. She came from near his heart

 

[Mister_Al]

I really don't think a spirit has any gender. The male and female genders are only really needed in the physical realm and that would be for reproduction. Since angels don't have sex and reproduce physically they can neither be male nor female.


Alan

 

[Swan7]

I really don't think a spirit has any gender. The male and female genders are only really needed in the physical realm and that would be for reproduction. Since angels don't have sex and reproduce physically they can neither be male nor female.


Alan

I get that, but what I don't understand is why they keep showing themselves as men to humans, and the Bible calls His angels the sons of God. So... I'm not so sure. I guess when it's time for me to go home, I'll find out then.

 

[Reformed Lutheran]

I really don't think a spirit has any gender. The male and female genders are only really needed in the physical realm and that would be for reproduction. Since angels don't have sex and reproduce physically they can neither be male nor female.


Alan

God the FATHER (male) and God the son (male) as well as the angels of god are all referenced to in the Male form.. When Abraham ate with angels that visited him they were in male form,, when angels went to sodom to deliver lot they were in the male form.

Say what you want about 'spirits' being sexless, but the above facts are undeniable . Women are a special and separate creation,, even so much so that the "sons of God" seen them as 'beautiful' in genesis pre flood fall.

 

[Crowns&Laurels]

Adam was created first, and woman to be his partner. The Bible places man as the heads of household and rulers of men. Abraham is male, Moses is male, the priests were male, JESUS is male, all the apostles are male, the angels are male, and in all Judaic and Christian history, men are the one's at the front of the church and government.

It's only been questioned or trivialized in this current age- wonder how that happened..
oh yes, feminist ideology. Something the Bible is against in just about every way as the green is against grass.

Islamic law follows a much more grueling concept of what it is to be a woman in obedience, and yet, even with the liberation that the Christian interpretation presents, it still isn't enough for the feminist minded.
That alone speaks all that needs to be said.

I may have jumped a gun a little bit on this thread, but it is my belief that the trivialization of gender on these matters are in due rebellion to the roles thereof. The fact is, gender is not just in one's appearance or sexual orientation, but in essence. God wills men to rule and teach because He Himself has a like essence, just as the angels. It was Eve who went for the forbidden fruit.

 

[Swan7]

Actually this is something that has always been on my mind as far back as I can remember. This isn't current at all. I just don't understand where us females /women fit in heaven. And yes, I'm still asking Him, and maybe I'm just not supposed to know?

Wow. Don't start attacking please. I'm asking a legit question and I'm being sincere about it...

 

[Chicken Little]

this is a fun subject of speculation and assumptions and pure guesses.
so here's my guesses .
I believe Angels are like Adam was before God removed Eve from in Adam.
it is not androgyny in that a it has some of both sexes or pretends to be .
but fully both sexes which in fact makes it neither but actually another third sex.

and I certainly aren't talking about pretending to be another third sex.

I suspect due to the rest of his creations we call 'alive' they will or have been having offspring too and it is why they could have offspring with women.
because they have their own kind of glory and the bible states we have a different kind of glory. in that how they create new life has to be different than how we do . they may just do that NEW LIFE differently than we do New life but everything alive in any way does procreate life someway or it is dead in all ways or not alive to start with . thus they truly will turn out to be a third sex we won't understand that now .. but we do know they not pretending to be a third sex.