Thinking about IVF and artificial insemination theologically.

[Xeno.of.athens]

Couples struggling with infertility may feel excluded from family life and yearn for a child. Some fulfill this desire through adoption, although it can be a challenging process. Others opt for IVF or, in certain cases, choose artificial insemination with a donor. The yearning for a child can be intense, and while I cannot claim to fully grasp the emotions involved, the Catholic Church does express views on these alternatives.

Adoption is endorsed as it meets the longing for a child and is seen as an act of loving kindness towards the child.

However, IVF and artificial insemination are not sanctioned. The rationale for this is that such methods remove the process of conception and birth from divine providence. Additionally, concerns arise regarding the management and disposal of surplus fertilized eggs.

 

[AlexB23]

Couples struggling with infertility may feel excluded from family life and yearn for a child. Some fulfill this desire through adoption, although it can be a challenging process. Others opt for IVF or, in certain cases, choose artificial insemination with a donor. The yearning for a child can be intense, and while I cannot claim to fully grasp the emotions involved, the Catholic Church does express views on these alternatives.

Adoption is endorsed as it meets the longing for a child and is seen as an act of loving kindness towards the child.

However, IVF and artificial insemination are not sanctioned. The rationale for this is that such methods remove the process of conception and birth from divine providence. Additionally, concerns arise regarding the management and disposal of surplus fertilized eggs.

I am plugging this into the AI run locally on my computer, if that is okay, as the AI ingested a smaller version of the Catechism, Church history and the Catholic bible as well as 7 secular medical textbooks. We will have to see if it gives answers about IVF. It takes around 15 minutes for the AI to parse the data and form a response. I'll be back in 10 minutes with the response.

Personally for myself, I have a mixed approach. Adoption should be preferred, but if a parent is not in the position to adopt, maybe IVF could be used, as long as it is never used for "designer babies", which is where particular traits are picked out (sounds similar to some dystopian future).

By the way, I was adopted (not IVF or anything), cos my adopting parents could not have any children, and my birth parents from overseas were struggling.

 

[AlexB23]

Alright, here we are with the AI response:


From a Catholic perspective, In Vitro Fertilization (IVF) raises several ethical concerns due to its potential involvement in issues such as embryo manipulation, multiple pregnancies, and surrogacy.

1. Embryo Manipulation: The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that "human life must be respected and protected absolutely from the moment of conception" (CCC 2270). IVF procedures often involve creating several embryos with the intention of selecting only those deemed most viable for implantation, which can lead to the destruction or freezing of unused embryos. This practice is not in line with Catholic teaching that all human life is sacred and deserving of protection from conception onward.
2. Multiple Pregnancies: IVF procedures often result in multiple pregnancies due to the transfer of several embryos at once. The Catechism emphasizes that the "good of children generally" should be taken into account when considering family size, and excessive numbers of children can cause undue hardship (CCC 2379). Furthermore, multiple pregnancies pose significant risks for both mother and child, including premature births, low birth weight, and increased risk of complications.
3. Surrogacy: The Catholic Church teaches that "the human being is to be called 'person' from the moment of the first formation of his intra-uterine existence" (CCC 2370). This means that any form of surrogacy, where a woman carries and gives birth to a child for another couple or individual, raises ethical concerns because it may lead to a separation between biological parenthood and legal recognition. The Church encourages the formation of families through marriage and supports efforts to promote fertility awareness and responsible procreation.

It is essential to remember that these teachings are not intended to judge individuals but rather to guide moral decision-making in complex situations such as IVF. It's crucial for couples considering IVF to engage in thoughtful discussion with their healthcare providers, religious leaders, and families about the ethical implications of their choices and how they can best align their actions with Catholic teaching on human life and family.

For more information about fertilization and related topics from a scientific perspective, you may find resources at this link: Fertilization - Embryology

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I am plugging this into the AI run locally on my computer, if that is okay, as the AI ingested a smaller version of the Catechism, Church history and the Catholic bible as well as 7 secular medical textbooks. We will have to see if it gives answers about IVF. It takes around 15 minutes for the AI to parse the data and form a response. I'll be back in 10 minutes with the response.

Personally for myself, I have a mixed approach. Adoption should be preferred, but if a parent is not in the position to adopt, maybe IVF could be used, as long as it is never used for "designer babies", which is where particular traits are picked out (sounds similar to some dystopian future).

By the way, I was adopted (not IVF or anything), cos my adopting parents could not have any children, and my birth parents from overseas were struggling.

This is a sensitive issue, and I am reluctant to make statements about anyone's specific situation. The intent of the original post in this thread is not to make anyone feel unloved or judged. The concern is how a Christian can make informed decisions in the realm of IVF and artificial insemination, considering the realities of these procedures, which can differ among providers. The Catholic Church primarily holds that conception and birth should occur through the natural methods bestowed by God upon humanity. It acknowledges the emotional and practical challenges involved, while also advising prudence due to the possible loss of unborn children associated with these procedures.

Adoption, as previously mentioned, is considered a joyful occasion to extend love and compassionate grace to a child.

 

[AlexB23]

This is a sensitive issue, and I am reluctant to make statements about anyone's specific situation. The intent of the original post in this thread is not to make anyone feel unloved or judged. The concern is how a Christian can make informed decisions in the realm of IVF and artificial insemination, considering the realities of these procedures, which can differ among providers. The Catholic Church primarily holds that conception and birth should occur through the natural methods bestowed by God upon humanity. It acknowledges the emotional and practical challenges involved, while also advising prudence due to the possible loss of unborn children associated with these procedures.

Adoption, as previously mentioned, is considered a joyful occasion to extend love and compassionate grace to a child.

I understand. Hopefully, the Catechism and the AI provided a good response to the issue, as it referenced CCC 2370 and CCC 2379. But hey, God gave us free will (CCC 1731). But yes, this is a very sensitive issue for some folks.

Eventually, I might get through Catechism in a year, I hope. Started the intro a few days ago.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Couples struggling with infertility may feel excluded from family life and yearn for a child. Some fulfill this desire through adoption, although it can be a challenging process. Others opt for IVF or, in certain cases, choose artificial insemination with a donor. The yearning for a child can be intense, and while I cannot claim to fully grasp the emotions involved, the Catholic Church does express views on these alternatives.

Adoption is endorsed as it meets the longing for a child and is seen as an act of loving kindness towards the child.

However, IVF and artificial insemination are not sanctioned. The rationale for this is that such methods remove the process of conception and birth from divine providence. Additionally, concerns arise regarding the management and disposal of surplus fertilized eggs.

Correct. One can not be against abortion and pro IVF for the very reason of how to rationalize all the fertilized eggs as NOT being a person. Can't have it both ways! Blessings.

 

[FireDragon76]

I am still thinking through natural law ethics. While I accept a kind of teleology implicit in nature, it is based on evolutionary or process metaphysics (Teillhard de Chardin or Aurobindo), and not medieval scholasticism. To treat the creation of life as an object for manipulation, separated from the physicality of the union of a man and woman, seems problematic. But I am also willing to hear arguments to the contrary that take teleology seriously. So far I haven't heard any- most of the arguments in favor of IVF rest on individual rights and autonomy.

I think adoption is the obviously morally praiseworthy choice, and at best, IVF is adiaphora. Especially considering the fact there's already 8 billion+ people on the planet, and every child brought into the developed world puts a disproportionate strain on Earth's biosphere.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The Senitivity comes from the believe that life begins at conception. The scripture NEVER Says that. It is not in the Bible. It say "And God formed man from the dust of the groung and bereathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul" Gen 2:7

Body formed from material matter then God breathes into the body and it become a living soul.

This is the model for when life begins.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

The Senitivity comes from the believe that life begins at conception. The scripture NEVER Says that. It is not in the Bible. It say "And God formed man from the dust of the groung and bereathed into him the breath of life and man became a living soul" Gen 2:7

Body formed from material matter then God breathes into the body and it become a living soul.

This is the model for when life begins.

Does your view mean that you believe that life begins with the first breath of air breathed?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Does your view mean that you believe that life begins with the first breath of air breathed?

no, when there is a body soul and spirit.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

no, when there is a body soul and spirit.

I once had an extensive conversation with a Seventh Day Adventist pastor about the soul and spirit. He explained that humans consist of body and breath, and that the soul is the union of the two, resulting in a living being. Does your understanding align with this, or is it markedly different?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

I once had an extensive conversation with a Seventh Day Adventist pastor about the soul and spirit. He explained that humans consist of body and breath, and that the soul is the union of the two, resulting in a living being. Does your understanding align with this, or is it markedly different?

yes, i believe there are 3 parts.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

yes, i believe there are 3 parts.

Please clarify what is meant by 'three parts.' There is the body, which is tangible and visible, the spirit, derived from the Latin word for 'breath,' and the soul. According to an SDA pastor, the soul is a living human, implying that it is distinct from the spirit and the body, being a combination of both. Do you disagree with this interpretation?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Please clarify what is meant by 'three parts.' There is the body, which is tangible and visible, the spirit, derived from the Latin word for 'breath,' and the soul. According to an SDA pastor, the soul is a living human, implying that it is distinct from the spirit and the body, being a combination of both. Do you disagree with this interpretation?

the soul is like the software or operating system on a computer.

Body = Hardware
Spirit = Powersource
Soul = operating system, software

 

[RileyG]

Correct. One can not be against abortion and pro IVF for the very reason of how to rationalize all the fertilized eggs as NOT being a person. Can't have it both ways! Blessings.

Agreed. I'm very much opposed to both.

Blessings

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Agreed. I'm very much opposed to both.

Blessings

You are at least consistent even though I disagree with you.

 

[RileyG]

You are at least consistent even though I disagree with you.

Ok! Thank for the compliment...I think.

Furthermore, what do you think of Psalm 139? Or even Psalm 51?

Psalm 51:5

"Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me."

 

[RileyG]

I am still thinking through natural law ethics. While I accept a kind of teleology implicit in nature, it is based on evolutionary or process metaphysics (Teillhard de Chardin or Aurobindo), and not medieval scholasticism. To treat the creation of life as an object for manipulation, separated from the physicality of the union of a man and woman, seems problematic. But I am also willing to hear arguments to the contrary that take teleology seriously. So far I haven't heard any- most of the arguments in favor of IVF rest on individual rights and autonomy.

I think adoption is the obviously morally praiseworthy choice, and at best, IVF is adiaphora. Especially considering the fact there's already 8 billion+ people on the planet, and every child brought into the developed world puts a disproportionate strain on Earth's biosphere.

You definitely aren't wrong.

Not to go off topic, but we continue to see many small towns shrink and die out, and the cities continue to grow and grow and grow.

I wonder what would happen if everything was distributed equally and people shared equally.

That would never happen, though.

Random word salad from me.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

You definitely aren't wrong.

Not to go off topic, but we continue to see many small towns shrink and die out, and the cities continue to grow and grow and grow.

I wonder what would happen if everything was distributed equally and people shared equally.

That would never happen, though.

Random word salad from me.

I started another thread about the topic you mentioned, it is called who sinned, this man or his parents

 

[RileyG]

I started another thread about the topic you mentioned, it is called who sinned, this man or his parents

Thank you for making it!