Think I'll sit down here for a bit... (6)

Studeclunker · Mar 7, 2008

You might find this article interesting:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50395

It seems that a treaty doesn't even need to be ratified by Congress anymore for the courts to start legislating on them.

BreadAlone · Mar 7, 2008

You guys know about School Choice, right? Like 20%(?) of our students are inner city kids whose tuition the school gets from the government.

They have to go to chapel and religion class though, just like all the other kids.

I, for one though, take issue with the Lutheran schooling system, so that's a whole other matter.

Studeclunker · Mar 8, 2008

BreadAlone said:
You guys know about School Choice, right? Like 20%(?) of our students are inner city kids whose tuition the school gets from the government.

They have to go to chapel and religion class though, just like all the other kids.

I, for one though, take issue with the Lutheran schooling system, so that's a whole other matter.

Sorry, I think I've missed your point. My fault, I fear.

BreadAlone · Mar 8, 2008

Studeclunker said:
Sorry, I think I've missed your point. My fault, I fear.

Guess I was just adding some to the convo..

dinkime · Mar 8, 2008

i think to put down ALL public schools (like this is sounding) is very VERY unfair...there are some horrible ones out there (are you a aproduct of one of those??) but i think there are more that are teaching children well and helping make them better adults (especially since many parents neglect this)....

LilLamb219 · Mar 8, 2008

Not all public schools are 100% incompetent. Our school district is absolutely wonderful. My daughter is a straight A student usually (a B here and there though) and is learning a lot...and even sooner in the subjects compared to when I learned them.

I'm an involved parent though and volunteer my time when it's needed and on some committees as well.

We're probably one of the schools left where real Christmas songs are allowed to be sung

DaRev said:
You may be right. I just have real issues with public schools. I've not had many good experiences with them.

cerette · Mar 8, 2008

There are problems with/in Christian schools also.
I know of several public schools that are good. No, they don't promote Christianity, but other than that they are good. I would not blame Christian parents who cannot afford elementary school tuition for sending their kids to a public school. (In fact, I used to be against private schools...christian or not... because we have to live in the real world anyway)

DaRev · Mar 8, 2008

While there are exceptions to every rule, generally speaking public schools are inefficient at best.
I did some research a few years ago. It costs twice as much to educate a child in a public school than it does a private school, and yet the standardized test scores of public school students rank below that of some third world countries. When I discovered this I was appalled, but not surprised.
I remember a few years ago the federal government wanted to have periodic evaluations of public school teachers, and the unions had an absolute fit. I never heard much more about it since then. I often wondered why teachers were so against competancy testing. Are they afraid of something?

LilLamb219 · Mar 8, 2008

That's why the wise parents search out the 4 Star Schools whenever they move to try to get the best education possible for their children.

DaRev said:
While there are exceptions to every rule, generally speaking public schools are inefficient at best.
I did some research a few years ago. It costs twice as much to educate a child in a public school than it does a private school, and yet the standardized test scores of public school students rank below that of some third world countries. When I discovered this I was appalled, but not surprised.
I remember a few years ago the federal government wanted to have periodic evaluations of public school teachers, and the unions had an absolute fit. I never heard much more about it since then. I often wondered why teachers were so against competancy testing. Are they afraid of something?

seajoy · Mar 8, 2008

My children went to public grade school and then went on to a WELS high school. My kids found the differences to be astounding. The teachers actually cared about them in the Lutheran school. They also found that many of their friends did not appreciate what going to a Christian school meant. Most of them had been products of parochial school from kindergarten on. Being able to talk of their beliefs without ridicule, and praying in one voice was so wonderful to them. They wouldn't have traded it for anything.

My hubby and I couldn't really afford to send them to the WELS high school....but someone told us, "once you make the decision, God will provide." And He did.

seajoy · Mar 8, 2008

BreadAlone said:
I, for one though, take issue with the Lutheran schooling system, so that's a whole other matter.

You don't like Lutheran schools? I suppose there are some bad ones...they sure can't be worse than what's being taught in public schools. The one our kids went to for high school was top notch.

Studeclunker · Mar 8, 2008

There's an interesting conversation going on in the Liberal forum on the LCMS:

http://christianforums.com/t6969852-the-lutheran-church-missouri-synod.html

I found their comments interesting.

As to the public vs. private schools; it really disturbs me what the Federal Government and courts will attempt to do in controlling our children. Now that parents are opting out of the public system in record numbers, the Feds are using increasingly more pressure to retain control of our children. Even to the point of impressing un-ratified treaties that Congress refuses to deal with. Until Congress starts to deal with these activist judges (as in impeachment), this situation will only get worse. If Hillary gets elected, look out!

LutheranChick · Mar 10, 2008

DaRev said:
I would be in favor of paying public school teachers more if they actually did anything to get paid for. Public schools in this country are a joke. They are cesspools of immorailty and ignorance. The teachers and their unions have ruined education in this country. If they are so great, why do we have a growing number of kids graduating high school who cannot read or write, and why do the standardized test score of US students rank among the lowest in the world?

Where do you live?? Certainly no where I've ever been or heard of. Public schools are way over funded by the government for the level of education they provide. It costs public schools twice as much to educate a child for one year than it does a private or parochial school, and the level of education from the private and parochial schools is much higher.

All schools should be competitive. And we need vouchers!!!

There. My rant.

While I partially agree with you, DaRev, I do need to say something in defense of public school teachers. I have a very good friend who teaches in our local public school- high school English. She is a VERY good teacher, but is so frustrated by the unwillingness of the kids to even want to learn. Sure, you have some kids that are good, but there are SO many at-risk kids. The school's hands are tied as far as discipline goes anymore, so kids feel free to make up excuses to walk out of class at anytime and not come back- or just not do the homework assigned. The kids have no respect for authority. Do their parents come to conferences? No. Does my friend have time to track down every kid and get them back into the classroom, or should she be using that time to teach the kids that ARE there?

How many extra people do we have to hire to walk the halls and check the bathrooms? Detention is the only 'punishment' anymore- these kids don't want to be there in the first place, so what good does detention or suspension do? Nothing. Call their parents? Nobody cares there- the attitude still prevails with some around here- "My parents got a 'good job' without a high school diploma (or only a HS diploma) - so I can too." Yeah, it's total crap, but this is what we have to deal with.

Ok- that was my rant. Off the soapbox now.

RadMan · Mar 10, 2008

Leslie Carbone, writing in the South Florida Sun-Sentinel, writes about the National Education Association (NEA) unions.

"The NEA shows no reservations about taking teachers union dues and spending them to spread a radical political agenda. Annual NEA dues can reach as high as $500. A little of it goes toward core union activities, like collective bargaining for contracts that keep members from having to attend after-school meetings or teach anothers class in an emergency. Some goes toward the hefty paychecks of NEA staffers, thousands of whom rake in six-figure annual salaries, far more than the teachers who pay them.
And a lot as much as half, by some estimates goes toward politicking. The NEA doesnt restrict itself to lobbying on issues that directly affect education, like the No Child Left Behind Act. It doesnt even restrict itself to weighing in on issues that indirectly affect education, like tax reform, which it sees as a threat to its own cash flow. The union lobbies on a host of unrelated issues, like statehood for the District of Columbia, even though many of its dues-payers dont want it to.
Fortunately, teachers do have some recourse. In right-to-work states, they dont have to pay union dues at all. And in others, while they can be required to pay dues for core union activities, they cannot be forced to pay for politicking, public relations or other non-essential union activities.
The NEA has done a solid job of stacking the deck against students, parents and teachers who want good schools. But that can change, if everyone interested in quality education stands up and stops turning money over to the NEA-borhood bully."

DaRev · Mar 10, 2008

LutheranChick said:
While I partially agree with you, DaRev, I do need to say something in defense of public school teachers. I have a very good friend who teaches in our local public school- high school English. She is a VERY good teacher, but is so frustrated by the unwillingness of the kids to even want to learn. Sure, you have some kids that are good, but there are SO many at-risk kids. The school's hands are tied as far as discipline goes anymore, so kids feel free to make up excuses to walk out of class at anytime and not come back- or just not do the homework assigned. The kids have no respect for authority. Do their parents come to conferences? No. Does my friend have time to track down every kid and get them back into the classroom, or should she be using that time to teach the kids that ARE there?

How many extra people do we have to hire to walk the halls and check the bathrooms? Detention is the only 'punishment' anymore- these kids don't want to be there in the first place, so what good does detention or suspension do? Nothing. Call their parents? Nobody cares there- the attitude still prevails with some around here- "My parents got a 'good job' without a high school diploma (or only a HS diploma) - so I can too." Yeah, it's total crap, but this is what we have to deal with.

Ok- that was my rant. Off the soapbox now.

I agree with what you are saying. And there are a few causes for this. One is that kids are not held responsible for anything because of their age. The so-called "youthful offender status" is a joke. It teaches nothing. Many parents don't feel they have any recourse for unruly kids because even their hands are tied in many ways. Another problem is the way in which public schools are structured. I don't know about other parts of the country, but in areas that I have been in there is this movement to build larger schools in these out-of-the-way rural areas and herd kids into overcrowded classrooms. Teachers simply cannot control classes with 30+ kids. What we need are smaller regional schools with smaller class sizes. The problem in part is the unions and the increased costs of public education.

There are many good teachers in our schools. All three of my kids had the same fourth grade teacher. She was the most caring individual I have ever known. But she was in a vast minority.

seajoy · Mar 11, 2008

Hello...anyone home???? Wow, it's quiet in here this morning. I'll put the coffee on, maybe that will draw some folks in.

LilLamb219 · Mar 11, 2008

I'm here for like 5 minutes before I go warm up the truck to take my daughter to school.

Then later this morning I have a meeting at church to try to make the church more "green". Anyone have any suggestions? We're trying to get committees to use real cups and plates during meetings instead of the styrofoam things that clog landfills. Can you think of other things we can do to help our environment?

seajoy said:
Hello...anyone home???? Wow, it's quiet in here this morning. I'll put the coffee on, maybe that will draw some folks in.

seajoy · Mar 11, 2008

No ideas here LL. But here's a cup to go.

seajoy · Mar 11, 2008

I see Jim hanging around. I know you don't usually drink coffee....so here's some tea, buddy.

Flipper · Mar 11, 2008

LutheranChick said:
While I partially agree with you, DaRev, I do need to say something in defense of public school teachers. I have a very good friend who teaches in our local public school- high school English. She is a VERY good teacher, but is so frustrated by the unwillingness of the kids to even want to learn. Sure, you have some kids that are good, but there are SO many at-risk kids. The school's hands are tied as far as discipline goes anymore, so kids feel free to make up excuses to walk out of class at anytime and not come back- or just not do the homework assigned. The kids have no respect for authority. Do their parents come to conferences? No. Does my friend have time to track down every kid and get them back into the classroom, or should she be using that time to teach the kids that ARE there?

How many extra people do we have to hire to walk the halls and check the bathrooms? Detention is the only 'punishment' anymore- these kids don't want to be there in the first place, so what good does detention or suspension do? Nothing. Call their parents? Nobody cares there- the attitude still prevails with some around here- "My parents got a 'good job' without a high school diploma (or only a HS diploma) - so I can too." Yeah, it's total crap, but this is what we have to deal with.

Ok- that was my rant. Off the soapbox now.

I had a public school education (first Catholic in my family to not have to go to Catholic school and yes I am proud of that fact), and I think I turned out ok, and I used to defend it as a fine place to get a good education. Used to.

Maybe not to the extent you are talking, but some of the things you say, especially about the lack of discipline, is making me seriously consider private schools. I can think of 3 area kids off hand who got pulled out of public schools because they were being bullied. My sister-in-law is a public school teacher and my mother-in-law is a paraprofessional aid, and the stuff they talk about in what goes on horrifies me.

Also, let's face it, I'm adopting 2 black kids in a mostly white area, and we hope to move further west, which is even whiter. There are a lot of racist people out there, and while my kids will have to learn that, I also have a duty to keep that kind of exposure to an extreme minimum and take a zero tolerance approach to the issue. I may not have much of a choice where private schools are concerned.

My husband works 2 blocks from Lutheran South. I hope he stays there - that would be convenient - but that's something that I would have to worry about years down the road, and pharmacists don't always stay at the same store in his company.

Think I'll sit down here for a bit... (6)

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