Think I'll sit down here for a bit... (2)

[LilLamb219]

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to seajoy again.

Awesome post

 

[Flipper]

It's not about tradition but the fact that the contemporary stuff isn't as theologically rich as the hymns. Why give the people watered down garbage?

Did you read what I said? Even if it is a TRADITIONAL HYM REMIXED WITH CONTEMPORARY MUSIC? I did not say change the words.

It comes down to personal musical tastes, not a water down.

Are you saying it's the music that waters it down, regardless of the words?

 

[seajoy]

Please folks...today is a new day....

 

[DaRev]

Another song that I hear a lot is Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart. That one speaks to the same theme.. God giving us strength in adversity. But it points to Christ much more strongly than the first one did. It is more corporate than personal. It doesn't rely on experiential feelings to bring out the emotion and joy.

That one is in the new hymnal.

 

[Flipper]

I was interested in the EO thread, though I did feel it was getting a bit out of hand. I want to understand the political and doctrinal challenges that Lutherans are facing, since I'm coming at it from an outsiders' perspective. Just from participating here, I've come to the conclusion that the congregation we attend seems to be a rare bird among LCMS -- liturgical AND confessional.

That doesn't mean no contemporary songs. It means contemporary music is judged by the confessional standards. One of the most popular songs on the Christian music radio that I listen to is "You Raise Me Up." It's sweet, the music is powerful, but I often cringe when I hear it. It is so me-focused. It's all about what God does "For me" in my particular circumstances, not what God did for all of us on the Cross. It's not necessarily non-Scriptural -- God does guide and protect and strengthen us in time of trouble. But it's like a bit of marshmallow fluff when my belly aches for steak. Or at least something more solid.

Another song that I hear a lot is Give Thanks with a Grateful Heart. That one speaks to the same theme.. God giving us strength in adversity. But it points to Christ much more strongly than the first one did. It is more corporate than personal. It doesn't rely on experiential feelings to bring out the emotion and joy.

Guess why Give Thanks is in the new hymnal, and You Raise Me Up is not.

I have no problem with contemporary music, in and of itself. Each song, though, has to be judged on its own merit. And some of them fall far short of the sort of healthy, hearty fare I would want to sing in corporate worship.

I think, though, that a LOT of good songs have come out of contemporary Christian music, and that we could find more songs that fit our Scriptural, Cross-centered requirements and incorporate them into our worship. Personally, I hate the idea of "contemporary" and "traditional" services. I think the best idea is so-called "blended worship", where you keep the liturgical framework and judiciously include a few contemporary songs here and there.

wow. Didn't realize I was going to write a book on this. This probably isn't the thread for this discussion. I guess it really hit a nerve with me.

I only brought it up as an example of traditions Lutherans keep so near and dear that it worries me.

I agree with you - all of it. Personally, I would like to see a blend. It isn't happening in my church. I do like how they remix the music to some of the hymns, though.

 

[DaRev]

I only brought it up as an example of traditions Lutherans keep so near and dear that it worries me.

I agree with you - all of it. Personally, I would like to see a blend. It isn't happening in my church. I do like how they remix the music to some of the hymns, though.

But it's not just the music, but the way the Divine Service is conducted. With a vast majority, if a church does a contemporary service, they ditch the Divine Service in favor of a concert-like atmosphere that plays on emotions and the "me-centered" feel.

There is nothing wrong with alternate instrumentation for a church service. A Divine Service with contemporary style music can be done in a way that keeps Christ at the center and the order of the Divine Service (God to us first, then we respond) intact. However, I have yet to see it. Keep the band out of the chancel!

 

[QuiltAngel]

Ah, maybe a new thread should be started regarding worship styles? Although, I have a feeling that has been hashed and rehashed here many times over.

It is a new day and the sun is shining here! 2 days in a row with the sun shining. Has to be a record of some sort (around here anyway).

 

[DaRev]

Ah, maybe a new thread should be started regarding worship styles? Although, I have a feeling that has been hashed and rehashed here many times over.

It is a new day and the sun is shining here! 2 days in a row with the sun shining. Has to be a record of some sort (around here anyway).

We're supposed to get a foot of anow over the weekend.

 

[porterross]

Yes, it's the reverence for God "tradition" that we hold so dear. That cannot be dressed up with icons and elaborate icons and made any better.

Did anyone else not notice that a constant theme in their posts are the importance of "the church" (actually, the one true church according them, which is apparently female) supersedes Christ? I did not see one mention of there being more focus on God and the Scripture, only on "the church" and how moved they are by the statues. I did not see one mention of Christ at all.
Oy vey!

Those are the iconic and visual traditions I referred to, not a liturgical one. To them, it seems the church and all the icons and idols it possesses hold more value than a Christ based theology. They need elaborance more than a meaningful service. They make the RC's look like indulgence amateurs, which I find more than bit ironic and even more disappointing.

 

[seajoy]

Now their calling us SS'ers....like that's a bad thing!

 

[LilLamb219]

SS'ers? Sunday Schoolers? What does SSer mean? I'm not thinking clearly today LOL

 

[porterross]

Sola Scripturas...????

Proudly so!

 

[LilLamb219]

If that's what it stands for, then allow us to sin boldly

 

[QuiltAngel]

Unfortunately, SS is so misrepresented. People will take a couple of verses that have the same basic wording and say that this verse says such and such. You go look up those verses, read the entire context and find that the verses are not talking about what that person says it is. Yet, that person keeps saying Sola Scriptura. Grrrr!!!

I also find it interesting that they keep harping on the contemporary worship services of Lutheran churches. Now, maybe I am in a unique area and I travel to unique parts of the country, but I find it hard to believe that they can not find one church that has a liturgical service in their area. Anywhere that I have traveled, we have found one. Speaking of which, anyone know of one in the Orlando area they can recommend?

You can keep the snow Rev. We were to get a foot on Wednesday, but only got about 4 inches. It is almost gone now.

 

[QuiltAngel]

LilLamb, Good one!

 

[porterross]

Ours are very liturgical. We do have a praise team and a youth choir, but they are pretty darn good and only sing one song at the start of the service and something soothing during Communion so it's tolerable. There are no tambourines, drums or trumpets, just a guitar.

 

[seajoy]

I also find it interesting that they keep harping on the contemporary worship services of Lutheran churches. Now, maybe I am in a unique area and I travel to unique parts of the country, but I find it hard to believe that they can not find one church that has a liturgical service in their area. Anywhere that I have traveled, we have found one. Speaking of which, anyone know of one in the Orlando area they can recommend?

Yes Quilty, what's up with the not enough liturgy stuff! I've never been to a WELS or LCMS service that didn't have liturgy. I love the liturgy, what a worshipful way to begin our service to the God of all creation who also saved us. What am I/we not getting here?

We confess our faith at every service. The faith God gave me is only dependant on Christ. I would never be able to sleep at night if more than the gift of faith were part of my own salvation.

 

[WildStrawberry]

<snip>

I also find it interesting that they keep harping on the contemporary worship services of Lutheran churches. Now, maybe I am in a unique area and I travel to unique parts of the country, but I find it hard to believe that they can not find one church that has a liturgical service in their area. Anywhere that I have traveled, we have found one. Speaking of which, anyone know of one in the Orlando area they can recommend?.

I don't know of one in Orlando but, should any of you come to Milford, Ohio, I'd love to introduce you to my church. I think we've only ever had one "contemporary" service. After that, the laity spoke and said "we didn't feel fed!" and it hasn't happened again.

For me, I'd really miss the liturgy of the Divine Service. It's not about tradition but more of a comfort thing for me. I FEEL fed when I get all that I get from the DS.

Kae

 

[QuiltAngel]

seajoy, there has been a move to using contemporary services that does away with many of the elements of the Divine Servie. This has been going on for many years. Most who do this put the traditional service at 8 a.m. The baby boomers seemed to think if the service was made more "relevant" then the teens and college crowd would be in worship more. I also think that since there has been more marriages with the couples being from two different denoms, there has been that influence. We saw that in our previous church big time.

Today's teens and college crowd seem to be wanting the traditional type service, which I find interesting.

I am like Kae in that I wonder "what was that" when a service was other than the Divine Service.

I don't mind contemporary music but I do mind the concert feel of some services. If I wanted to go to a concert, I would go to one. I don't want one parading as a worship service. The fact that the "praise bands" are placed in the front of the church really gives the concert feel. I even prefer the choir to sing from the balconey. Let's me focus on the words, not the people singing the hymn.

Like I said though, one can find a traditional, liturgical service. One can also check out the other synods. I am guessing that most of the WELS churches use the liturgical service?

I find the blaming the type of service for going orthodox to be more of an excuse, gotta blame something don't we?

Ok, maybe the allergy meds will kick in and I can take a needed nap.

 

[seajoy]

I am guessing that most of the WELS churches use the liturgical service?

yep...same wonderful stuff at all 3 of our weekend services!

Ok, maybe the allergy meds will kick in and I can take a needed nap.

Oh, your poor nose. I get allergies in the fall.