Things to consider about the Ten Commandments

[Elder 111]

You made up a fairy tale that others can see right through; None of these patriarchs had the covenant Law from Mount Sinai. Did you really think God's election exists only within His redemption from the Law that wouldn't exist for hundreds or thousands of years after these all lived?

What about David?

 

[tzadik]

Does having an advocate mean that the law is not the ministry of death?

No!!! The ministry of death is the law to everybody, even to the Advocate.
2Co 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:


It seems clear that having an advocate does not mean the law is not a ministry of death.

Are you serious?

So what you are telling me that as a believer, redeemed and bought by the blood of the Advocate---that the law will still be a minister for your eternal death?

 

[tzadik]

Are you saying Jesus taught the law? John says no in 1:17 and taught His own commandments in 15:10.

Let’s once again leave the interpretations on the side and see the confession of the Master Himself.

"For I did not speak on My own initiative, but the Father Himself who sent Me has given Me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak.”

Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner.

"Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works.

More importantly as a prophet of Israel like Moses (Deut. 18:18) could not do, teach or say ANYTHING that was contrary to the Law of God. According to Deuteronomy 13, Christ would not be the Messiah if he did not do and teach the Law of God, or taught contrary to the Law of God.

It’s amazing how simple it is to understand Scripture when you use the Law and the Prophets as a litmus test, just like Christ and His followers did.
"But this I admit to you, that according to the Way which they call a sect I do serve the God of our fathers, believing everything that is in accordance with the Law and that is written in the Prophets;” [Acts 24:14]

If it agrees with the Law and the Prophets, accept it. If not reject it! After all, even Christ Himself would not be Christ, unless He brought to fruition what was prophesied and spoken of Him in the Law and the Prophets. This is why He always used the Law and the Prophets to prove who He was!

“Now He said to them, "These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled."
Then He opened their minds to understand the Scriptures” [Luke 24.]

So yes Jesus taught the Law, Jesus taught from the Law, Jesus kept the Law, Jesus taught that the Law will not pass away, Jesus taught us to do and teach even the least of God’s commandments, Jesus taught us to do good on the Sabbath, Jesus taught us to the deep Spiritual meaning of the Law, Jesus is the goal of the Law!

 

[tzadik]

I've not understood? Where are you pulling this garbage theology from?
Adam and Eve had grace? HOGWASH!!!.... they were thrown out of the garden to toil on cursed soil and have painful childbirth from that point on... some grace....

None of us would have your definition of grace, if your definition = PERFECT blissful, cakewalk, roses and sunshine for the rest of your life!

Until we have that perfect and sinless body, we will continue to sin, and the perfect and Holy God will always judge that sin. Sin = missing and going against the Will and Word of God. Being saved by grace through faith, does not make you sinless. You will still miss the mark and will need to repent.

Noah didn't find grace but rather found himself ridiculed for hundreds of years to toil and build an ark his faith in God was the only reason he was saved God would have had him die also I think if he at the end decided not to get on the ark I doubt God would have suddenly stopped the rain and cancel it because of "grace".

You must lead a perfect, trial free life Soph. James 1 must’ve not been written for you…it was written for men like Noah and Adam who went through trials and tribulation.

As for David after his sin was found out the "grace" he got was his child died soon after birth and his sons turned against him later in life... some idea of grace eh?

you calling his theology garbage? Where do you get yours? Do you subscribe to name it and claim it? Come to Jesus and EVERYTHING will be perfect?
That’s not what the Word of God teaches.

The difference between David as an unbeliever and David as a believer saved by grace is that he now has an Advocate when he sins. He can repent and restore his right-standing with the Almighty! As a child of God, David still suffered the consequences of his sin, just like I do today.

We have grace not because we are sinners but because of Jesus and what he did and Jesus wasn't around to get on a cross in the OT when David needed grace..... so David suffered punishment for his sins as did everyone else.

lol
I seriously just chuckled. Jesus Christ was the Lamb of God slain before the foundation of the world!
Everyone that has ever been saved, everyone who has been redeemed, from Adam until the one redeemed this very second are saved by THE WAY, THE TRUTH and THE LIFE. There is NO OTHER way to be saved then by grace through faith in the Messiah!

So before you go throwing Abraham…THE FATHER of your faith out of the body of Christ…you might want to think twice and go back to basics.

 

[VictorC]

What about David?

...who called on his Redeemer?

Psalm 19:14
Let the words of my mouth and the meditation of my heart Be acceptable in Your sight, O Lord, my strength and my Redeemer.​

What did David's Lord redeem David from?

 

[tzadik]

And of course that's exactly why he said Now we are delivered form the law.

How can you be delivered from a law you claim was never given to you?

 

[from scratch]

John 1:17 DOES NOT say that of Jesus. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. How does that say that Jesus did not teach the law? How does that compare with the fact that Jesus said He did not come to change the law?
How does Jesus teach His own commandments? Is His commandments different from that of His Father's? You would hold that view after Jesus Himself said that He and His Father are one? After Jesus said that if you see Him you see the Father? The point is that the Holy Spirit, the son and the Father work under the same principles so how can Jesus now have different rules than that of the father? Even Paul confirms the oneness of operation.
Cor. 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
Did the Father contradict His own Commandments as Jesus did all that He did in His father will? John 5:30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
The law says that we should have no other God! Are you saying that according to Paul we are deliver from that law? Did not Paul say Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. Romans 3:31. How can Paul mean that there is no law for us and yet say that we establish the law? Would it not make sense to understand Paul as meaning that we are not under the condemnation of the law because we have Christ our salvation?
Is it matter of choosing law over grace? Or having grace to Worship God alone? Grace to love your neighbour as yourself.

12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. This have nothing to do with the Ten commandments. Heb. 8: Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; 2 A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
Paul makes it clear that he was talking about the priesthood. That Christ was not a Levi.


13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar.
14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

Please pass the salt. Thank you.

 

[mercy1061]

I've not understood? Where are you pulling this garbage theology from?
Adam and Eve had grace? HOGWASH!!!.... they were thrown out of the garden to toil on cursed soil and have painful childbirth from that point on... some grace.... Noah didn't find grace but rather found himself ridiculed for hundreds of years to toil and build an ark his faith in God was the only reason he was saved God would have had him die also I think if he at the end decided not to get on the ark I doubt God would have suddenly stopped the rain and cancel it because of "grace".
As for David after his sin was found out the "grace" he got was his child died soon after birth and his sons turned against him later in life... some idea of grace eh?
We have grace not because we are sinners but because of Jesus and what he did and Jesus wasn't around to get on a cross in the OT when David needed grace..... so David suffered punishment for his sins as did everyone else.

Are you now a judge of swine? Do you eat swine? Do you like the taste of pig intestines or pig feet? I guess it is expedient to wash the pig before you eat it?

 

[VictorC]

You ask rhetorical questions (twice in a row) just to reject the Biblical answers.

So who died for us? Jesus died for the sins under the first Covenant it looks like. For those who broke the ten Commandments. We don't have no Ten commandments according to you.

Make that three times. Add to this the shortest attention span seen on the forum. Just Who do you think Hebrews 10:9 refers to when the translators recognize the need to capitalize the pronoun "He"?

He takes away the first that He may establish the second.​

I am not "He".

 

[mercy1061]

You ask rhetorical questions (twice in a row) just to reject the Biblical answers.

Make that three times. Add to this the shortest attention span seen on the forum. Just Who do you think Hebrews 10:9 refers to when the translators recognize the need to capitalize the pronoun "He"?

He takes away the first that He may establish the second.
​

I am not "He".

When the commandments were given at Mt. Sinai, Israel was not a sovriegn nation at this time. The sons of Abraham were a mixed multitude, like nomads or strangers wandering in the wilderness.

 

[VictorC]

When the commandments were given at Mt. Sinai, Israel was not a sovriegn nation at this time. The sons of Abraham were a mixed multitude, like nomads or strangers wandering in the wilderness.

I don't see the slightest relevance this has with the epistle to the Hebrews, or Who it was Who took away the covenant from Mount Sinai.

 

[mercy1061]

I don't see the slightest relevance this has with the epistle to the Hebrews, or Who it was Who took away the covenant from Mount Sinai.

Was Mt Sinai the first covenant?

 

[VictorC]

Was Mt Sinai the first covenant?

By your rhetorical question, I assume you haven't read the epistle to the Hebrews, and don't know where the author defined the 'first covenant'. Who is the 'He' Who took away the covenant from Mount Sinai?

 

[mercy1061]

By your rhetorical question, I assume you haven't read the epistle to the Hebrews, and don't know where the author defined the 'first covenant'. Who is the 'He' Who took away the covenant from Mount Sinai.

The question is not rhetorical. You have read the book of hebrews, so answer the question. Stop behaving like the pharisees who refused to answer Yeshua's questions; is the cat resting on your shoulders whispering in your ear that you should never answer my questions?

 

[mercy1061]

By your rhetorical question, I assume you haven't read the epistle to the Hebrews, and don't know where the author defined the 'first covenant'. Who is the 'He' Who took away the covenant from Mount Sinai?

Do you understand that the 10 commandments were not given just to jews? Now if the commandments were symbolic of Hagar, Hagar is not an Israelite, she is an Egyptian. Your agrument that the 10 commandments were just for jews is logically defeated; because HAGAR is a foreigner, an Egyptian slave.

 

[VictorC]

The question is not rhetorical. You have read the book of hebrews, so answer the question. Stop behaving like the pharisees who refused to answer Yeshua's questions; is the cat resting on your shoulders whispering in your ear that you should never answer my questions?

Then you know by my post that the first covenant is the covenant from Mount Sinai. Now, Who took it away?

 

[VictorC]

Do you understand that the 10 commandments were not given just to jews?

Moses asks the question according to Deuteronomy 4:8: And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?
Answer the question Moses posed: what other nation was given the covenant from Mount Sinai?

 

[mercy1061]

Then you know by my post that the first covenant is the covenant from Mount Sinai. Now, Who took it away?

You dont understand the simple truth, that the commandments given at Mt Sinai were not the FIRST covenant, there were covenants before Mt Sinai; like the sign of circumcision given to Abraham REPEATED within the laws Moses gave to Israel; the holy commandments given at Mt Sinai were a CONTINUATION of the covenant given to Israel's grandfather Abraham. You do not know what was taken away, then you want me to answer you, who took it away? A thief that steals, WHAT was stolen determines whether that man is indeed a theif. If what the theif took already belonged to him, then that man is innocent; he is not a theif! "Thou shall not steal"....

 

[tzadik]

You ask rhetorical questions (twice in a row) just to reject the Biblical answers.

Make that three times. Add to this the shortest attention span seen on the forum. Just Who do you think Hebrews 10:9 refers to when the translators recognize the need to capitalize the pronoun "He"?

He takes away the first that He may establish the second.​

I am not "He".

Perhaps I missed it, but I don't see the word covenant ANYWHERE in the verse you quote at the end there. Definitely not in the Greek.

 

[mercy1061]

Moses asks the question according to Deuteronomy 4:8: And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day?
Answer the question Moses posed: what other nation was given the covenant from Mount Sinai?

Do you know what "righteous judgments" mean? The other nations already had the law; they knew it was sinful to murder or steal, but did they judge the jews righteously when they dwelt in Egypt? Your theories lack much practice; you must read the scriptures while shining the light of torah.