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Paul wasn't zealous for the Law that is why he changed his name from Saul.
Using Pharisee Shaul is IMO a typical Messianic type tactic to confuse and obfuscate things. It is akin to the poisoning the well fallacy.
Believing Jews.... NOT Israel. One doesn't become a partaker of Israel if one accepts Jesus.My goodness...
Let me try this again...
But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in AMONG THEM and became partaker WITH THEM of the rich root of the olive tree,
WHO is the THEM in verse 17???
The simple thing is the saved (body of Christ) are grafted in and the unsaved (Israel as a nation) are not. One could say the tree is all of God's people but the root isn't Israel or the tree but God himself is the root of it.
I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.Have you ever chopped off some branches and grafted them into another tree? Did you build Jacob's well? Is there any water in your well? Has your well gone dry? If it has, you may have to reach deep the gather up enough water in a jar to satisfy your thirst.
If one considers Jesus as the tree and sin our nature... makes perfect sense to me.Please be honest, does this answer my question? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.
Believing Jews.... NOT Israel. One doesn't become a partaker of Israel if one accepts Jesus.
I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.
I've grafted branches before, and grafting branches doesn't make the tree change into that type of tree at all as you folks are trying to equate that grafting Jews into a tree makes the tree Jewish or grafting Israel into the tree makes it Israel.
Is Israel a believing Jew? NOTHANK YOU!
Believing JEWS.
Ok so is Moses a believing Jew?
is Paul a believing Jew?
Is David a believing Jew?
is John the Baptist a believing Jew?
Their own being the Church... and NOT Israel of course23. And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.
24. For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into THEIR own olive tree?
What does the highlighted portion of the verse mean to you?
I already said our nature was sin, and in Christ we are contrary to that nature.What does the simple laws of nature mean to you? They were grafted CONTRARY to the laws of nature.
Yup... and that fig tree could represent Israel which for a time ceased to exist as a nation.Are you familiar how a fig tree reproduces? Fig trees grew in the garden of eden. Yeshua cursed the fig tree with only leaves; the fig tree withered and died.
God would have ordained it to life, the death part is because we break it! So you have a no point. IT IS LIFE! God is not a God of death.I've already dealt with Romans chapter 7 and proved that you are stripping out one part OUT OF CONTEXT and the meaning of the entire chapter is being TOTALLY REJECTED by you in that effort.
Notice what Paul says AFTER your highlighted verse there " I FOUND TO BE UNTO DEATH". Are you so blind that you cannot even SEE THAT?
I don't see the Law bringing life at all, or those who were before it were summarily dead. The Law is death ask the guy who picked up sticks on the Sabbath how alive he was after the Law got ahold of him.riginally Posted by Elder 111
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
You make it sound like it is our own words it is not! God said it and I believe God!
There is perversion but look for the source again, because it is not originating with the word of God that I quoted!
God would have ordained it to life, the death part is because we break it! So you have a no point. IT IS LIFE! God is not a God of death.
Same old false argument first Jesus and his Father have two separate sets of commandment in one scripture or God has a mental illness when Jesus said keep HIS commandments while HE keeps HIS FATHER's Commandments. Why did Jesus just instead say Keep my Father's commandments instead? I have yet to hear any reasonable explanation that doesn't make God into an illogical mental case.
Breaking news everyone!
Jesus who is the creator, who says that He and his Father are one. Gave His commandments that are not the same as His Father's Holy Ten commandments.=
I come to do the will of "My Father will" but I don't want My Father's law. Interesting isn't it?
Sound right to you?
Oh what positions we take to defend the untenable idea that the Ten commandments are not for Christians.
The same Christian that says that God is His only God.
That says he should not steal.
That says he should not commit adultery.
That says he should not covet.
That says he should not take the name of the Lord in vain.
That says he should bow to images in worship or make them.
That says he should not lie.
Wait a minute!!!
That is the Ten commandments!!!!!
Please note he does the things of the Ten commandments but they are not applicable to him. Oh yes, he does then but he does not keep them.
Oh what a tangle web we weave!
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