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I'm at a loss here. What's yer point? You can't argue both ways. A divided house can't stand.
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I'm at a loss here. What's yer point? You can't argue both ways. A divided house can't stand.You are born again Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.(Romans 8:7)
That too was ordained by God. It plays a very prominent role in our world today and shows the possibilities of the end times. They'll come to prominence and persecution will be something never seen before in the first world countries. I guessing bout 20 more years minimum. I hear reports indicating such currently happening on a very small scale.There is one trait that I have seen in your presentations. You conclude things that are not stated. She did not say she does not know! Highlighted for you.
I have stated also that the bondwoman meaning Hagar was man's idea (Sarah) The law was God doings. Where is the contradiction?
What on earth are you talking about?That too was ordained by God. It plays a very prominent role in our world today and shows the possibilities of the end times. They'll come to prominence and persecution will be something never seen before in the first world countries. I guessing bout 20 more years minimum. I hear reports indicating such currently happening on a very small scale.
I'm drawn to the phrase you didn't emphasize in verse 10. What does it mean to you?You don't understand! Romans 7:
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
The problem is not the Ten Commandments but our relation ship to it!
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
I'm certainly not talking about our relationship with God. I'm talking about the war of the half brothers and its effect on the world.What on earth are you talking about?
The topic is the bondwoman defined as the covenant from Mount Sinai in Galatians 4:24.
You here also admit that the covenant is not the Ten commandments only.Read what Moses testified:Deuteronomy 4The Ten Commandments was the proper name Moses called the covenant from Mount Sinai. The covenant also includes the Book of the Law (Exodus 24:7) which is what you quoted to show the Ten Commandments.
7 For what great nation is there that has God so near to it, as the Lord our God is to us, for whatever reason we may call upon Him? 8 And what great nation is there that has such statutes and righteous judgments as are in all this law which I set before you this day? 9 Only take heed to yourself, and diligently keep yourself, lest you forget the things your eyes have seen, and lest they depart from your heart all the days of your life. And teach them to your children and your grandchildren, 10 especially concerning the day you stood before the Lord your God in Horeb, when the Lord said to me, Gather the people to Me, and I will let them hear My words, that they may learn to fear Me all the days they live on the earth, and that they may teach their children.
11 Then you came near and stood at the foot of the mountain, and the mountain burned with fire to the midst of heaven, with darkness, cloud, and thick darkness. 12 And the Lord spoke to you out of the midst of the fire. You heard the sound of the words, but saw no form; you only heard a voice. 13 So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone. 14 And the Lord commanded me at that time to teach you statutes and judgments, that you might observe them in the land which you cross over to possess.
This is the only covenant that came from Mount Sinai.
And this is what you claimed was the product of man when you rejected Paul's definition of the symbolic bondwoman in Galatians 4:21-31.
I shouldn't need to keep showing how you've contradicted yourself. Attempting to change Biblical terminology illustrates your rejection of Scripture.
You're referring to the posterity of Hagar the human.I'm certainly not talking about our relationship with God. I'm talking about the war of the half brothers and its effect on the world.
Not when you read Jer 31:31-33. Oh yeah that's right the not according to the covenant made with their fathers isn't the law according to you.The Ten commandments are not the covenant, There are part thereof, part of the conditions under which the covenant would remain valid. Just like circumcision was not the covenant with Abraham but a one of the conditions of maintaining that covenant. You keep missing the mark.
Your changed emphasis changes the meaning of the text? The law is still ordained to life.Emphasis changed in your own quote.
Your adversity to the old covenant is wholly contrary to your quote describing its effect on those retained by it. Notice the pronoun "it" refers to the Law, not your alleged relationship.
You didn't read my post, which pointed out your quote from the Book of the Law. The Ten Commandments is in the book and on the tablets of stone. They are the same covenant. It isn't possible for one to have a status greater than the other.You here also admit that the covenant is not the Ten commandments only.
I will accept that it was so important that it took first place, then and now.
See your own contradiction: your claim that God didn't ordain the Ten Commandments, concurrent with a claim that He did. The bondwoman was defined as the covenant from Mount Sinai in v.24, which is the Ten Commandments. Those retained by it have no claim to eternal life, as they are outside God's redemption.God did not ordain the bondwoman, that was man's doings: Sarah and Abraham. The ten Commandments on the other hand is directly from God.First of all, you once again reversed the relationship of what kept whom until the time appointed by God.
Second of all, those retained by the bondwoman covenant from Mount Sinai have absolutely no claim to eternal life with the Heir: Nevertheless what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the bondwoman and her son, for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.” (Galatians 4:30)
That because I sin death is my reward.I'm drawn to the phrase you didn't emphasize in verse 10. What does it mean to you?
That's a nice way to disregard the author's conclusion of the Law's effect on those retained by it. It is clear that added emphasis doesn't help your comprehension.Originally Posted by Elder 111
9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10 and the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
Your changed emphasis changes the meaning of the text? The law is still ordained to life.
That's a nice way to disregard the author's conclusion of the Law's effect on those retained by it. It is clear that added emphasis doesn't help your comprehension.
It also disregards the author's declaration "now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter", followed by a quote found only in the Ten Commandments to identify the Law he addresses.
Context has never been the Adventist's friend.
So...Is that a joke? LOL.
Yes Paul speaks of the ten being ordained to life, and because he broke them he was subject to death. So?
He announced the change, in jer 31, right during the old cov.
Besides, he used to not justify the ungodly, but now he does as per rom 4.
The oath came later than the law, Heb 7:28, chronolgical information is important.
Ex 23:7 Keep far from a false charge, and do not kill the innocent and righteous, for I will not acquit the wicked.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Is that a joke? LOL.
Yes Paul speaks of the ten being ordained to life, and because he broke them he was subject to death. So?
You completely ignore Paul's words.... he calls it a ministry of death, it is equated as bondage/slavery and a burden. One has to truly read Paul and the New Testament without preconceived notions about the Law to see this but too many totally ignore it. The Law is Holy but Jesus is Holier than it will be because apart from God the Law is meaningless and in God the Law isn't needed (in the spirit).
2 Corinthians 3:6-8
New American Standard Bible (NASB)
6 who also made us adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came [a]with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory?
This scripture contradicts your claim entirely, and yet you either didn't read it or purposely ignored it.
We have the Law (the letter that kills) and the spirit compared to each other and contradict each other.
Pharisee Shaul calls himself a bondservant, what is a bondservant? A bondervant is no different than a slave, yet it was the slavewoman that bore Abraham's firstborn. The purpose of the law was to give life, to be fruitful and multiply. A slave could only be free by death or banishment. The spirit gave the law to Adam when he walked around in the garden.
Good hoodwinkem. Doesn't agree with the Book of the Law though.Pharisee Shaul calls himself a bondservant, what is a bondservant? A bondervant is no different than a slave, yet it was the slavewoman that bore Abraham's firstborn. The purpose of the law was to give life, to be fruitful and multiply. A slave could only be free by death or banishment. The spirit gave the law to Adam when he walked around in the garden.
Paul says a lot of things that you apparently are taking just the opposite. There is no scripture supporting a spirit giving the law to Adam whatsoever as it equates to anything you are trying to connect it to. God only gave Adam a few commands, such as don't eat of the fruit, name the animals, and when he was kicked out go forth and multiply. There was no mention of adultery, killing, honoring parents, etc... especially NO mention of the Sabbath being kept on a cyclical basic either in or out of the garden. In other words simply..... You've got NOTHING nowhere as proof to back up your claims.... just a bunch of opinions that are worthless when it comes to a debate.Pharisee Shaul calls himself a bondservant, what is a bondservant? A bondervant is no different than a slave, yet it was the slavewoman that bore Abraham's firstborn. The purpose of the law was to give life, to be fruitful and multiply. A slave could only be free by death or banishment. The spirit gave the law to Adam when he walked around in the garden.
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