Things or Animals that defy creation and evolution?

[SelfSim]

I said more honest, as in, at least they're admitting that the available physical evidence doesn't support their positions.

Sure.
Yet I have difficulty in seeing a need for degrees of honesty.
Isn't this the same as saying its ok to conceal (ie: not distinguish) one's own beliefs .. even from oneself?

 

[AV1611VET]

Good news - as a Christian, you do not need to read the Genesis scientifically and believe in a young earth where animals were created from nothing by popping up like popcorn.

Who says the animals were created ex nihilo?

According to the Bible, they were created ex materia.

 

[trophy33]

Who says the animals were created ex nihilo?

According to the Bible, they were created ex materia.

Popcorn is "ex materia" too.

 

[AV1611VET]

Popcorn is "ex materia" too.

Then what animals were you referring to, when you said "animals were created from nothing"?

 

[-57]

Did you ignore or not understand my point about the heat problem?

So, now you're an expert on post flood conditions?

 

[-57]

You say that I do not want to look for the truth, yet you make grand claims and then refuse to back them up when asked to do so, saying some vague stuff about how the forums aren't adequate to explain it (despite the fact that you can post links to anything you want and you can have a thread with thousands of posts). All you can do is ask me to just believe you because of... reasons.

You'll have to do better than that.

Being an atheist, you don't really have the ability to believe.

 

[-57]

Yeah, the article written by a creationist, who has zero scientific articles about geology that I could find.

I did find some articles written by Wesley R Barnhart on Google Scholar - but they're in the field of clinical psychology and eating disorders, NOT geology. So even if that is the same guy, he certainly isn't qualified to talk about geology.

"the article written by a creationist," Automatic disqualification. Got it.

 

[-57]

I'd like to know how your god can just will a universe into being. What is the mechanism by which matter/energy can be created out of who knows what? Was there nothing? Was there an earlier universe? By what specific process does light, and the Earth, and the sun and moon, and stars; and plants, animals, and the first human beings just suddenly appear?

Can you answer that?

I'd like to know how your god can create the stuff of the Big Bang out of nothing. Care to explain? Seriously, care to explain?

 

[-57]

There are no animals that "defy" evolution. Evolution is not a scary idea that some make it out to be. Evolution is simply the change in allele frequency over time.

How does the right allele change in just the right way via a random process?

 

[Ophiolite]

How does the right allele change in just the right way via a random process?

Attempt 189: There is no right way. There is no predetermined outcome. Some changes are beneficial and tend to spread through a population. Some changes are disadvantageous and tend to be eliminated in a population. Some changes are neutral and may spread, or be eliminated purely by chance. (Mutations are not intrinsically beneficial, disadvantageous, or neutral. That is a reflection of their response to their environment.)
Only when we have arrived somewhere can we call it a destination and reflect on the route by which we got there.

 

[-57]

Yes. Here's an article on that exact topic. Somewhat technical, but you might learn something.

Step By Step Evolution of Vertebrate Coagulation.

Oh my, they present this spectacular chain of events and by their own admission say "could have given rise to assorted clotting". Yup, could've. We also know the evos call for random mutations.

Of the random mutations striking in the right spot at just the right time...of which very, vey few are considered as beneficial. It's a pipe dream my evo friends.

 

[-57]

Attempt 189: There is no right way. There is no predetermined outcome. Some changes are beneficial and tend to spread through a population. Some changes are disadvantageous and tend to be eliminated in a population. Some changes are neutral and may spread, or be eliminated purely by chance. (Mutations are not intrinsically beneficial, disadvantageous, or neutral. That is a reflection of their response to their environment.)
Only when we have arrived somewhere can we call it a destination and reflect on the route by which we got there.

What you have done is presented the comic book version of evolution.

We all know the change has to be changed again in the progeny in a beneficial way. Considering a trend evolves many changes are required...such as the formation of the dolphins echo-location system requires many, many beneficial mutations. Tell us, how does random mutations find the right place in the organisms DNA to occur when there are several billion places for it to occur? Then it has to be repeated over and over again until the trend is realized?

 

[Yttrium]

I'd like to know how your god can create the stuff of the Big Bang out of nothing. Care to explain? Seriously, care to explain?

I think you may be confused about this. Something from nothing due to God is the Christian view, not the science view. You may wish to review both Genesis and Big Bang theory on that.

 

[-57]

I think you may be confused about this. Something from nothing due to God is the Christian view, not the science view. You may wish to review both Genesis and Big Bang theory on that.

No, it's the science view. Where did the stuff in the BB come from? How did it create itself from nothing?

 

[Ophiolite]

What you have done is presented the comic book version of evolution.

I've been in the education field for decades. I pitch my level to suit my target audience.

 

[Yttrium]

No, it's the science view. Where did the stuff in the BB come from? How did it create itself from nothing?

We don't know where the stuff came from. There are various conjectures, but the scientific conjectures don't propose something from nothing.

 

[-57]

I've been in the education field for decades. I pitch my level to suit my target audience.

So, now you have to pitch an ad-hom attack against me? I understand that to mean you don't have an answer .

 

[-57]

We don't know where the stuff came from. There are various conjectures, but the scientific conjectures don't propose something from nothing.

Interesting, you mock my belief that God created it....and post no answer to how something like 1X 10 to the 24th stars... material... was squashes into a singularity before it went BANG...got there?

 

[Yttrium]

Interesting, you mock my belief that God created it....and post no answer to how something like 1X 10 to the 24th stars... material... was squashes into a singularity before it went BANG...got there?

In what way did I mock your belief? If it came across that way somehow, I apologize.

But yes, I post no answer to how it happened, because at this time science has no answer, beyond some conjectures. Lack of an answer doesn't mean science concludes that it came from nothing. It simply means that science has no conclusion on it at this point.

 

[Caliban]

Attempt 189: There is no right way. There is no predetermined outcome. Some changes are beneficial and tend to spread through a population. Some changes are disadvantageous and tend to be eliminated in a population. Some changes are neutral and may spread, or be eliminated purely by chance. (Mutations are not intrinsically beneficial, disadvantageous, or neutral. That is a reflection of their response to their environment.)
Only when we have arrived somewhere can we call it a destination and reflect on the route by which we got there.

Great reply. You nailed it.