things God said because people didn't want the truth

[-V-]

You are making arguments based on nothing I said or believe, I'll just ignore you too

First, post #13 *STRONGLY* suggests, if not says outright, that you believe God can be deceitful. If you meant something else, you really need to clarify it.

Second, Noam is also suggesting that God can be deceitful, so while quoting you, my post is also a response to him.

 

[noam burde]

If you are correct . . . it would be a very reasonable thing to note that many people even today are as unready for the real truth as they were in the days of Moses.

generally yes. but I think some are more ready. maybe not perfectly ready. but more ready.
I think someone can be accepted by God even if he is not right about everything. but we should try to understand correctly. as we have a brain and enough information.
matthew 7 13-14 kind of say this is the situation.
13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

I asked him this in another thread. It is just the way the "holy spirit" makes him write. We have to take it or leave it.

I think His point is just that God would not be unjust to put people in hell forever, it is because they chose to reject His salvation, not because the Lord is arbitrarily being cruel.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

The bible says to LEAN NOT TO OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING but in all our ways acknowledge God, and He will make our paths straight.

Why is this? Because in the new testament we are told that the carnal mind is enmity with God, that it cannot either perceive the things of the Spirit or obey it. We must put on the mind of Christ through the Holy Spirit and He helps us to understand His truths...the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, it says. The bible is a spiritual book.........the Lord is speaking in spirit to our spirits and hearts, not to our carnal natural minds so much. This is why we must be born again to receive His Holy Spirit and then He will begin to open scripture to our understanding with His help. We cannot "see" the kingdom of God except we be born again, because it is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one, it can't be perceived by the natural carnal mind of man.

Whatever hell is.....we are certainly warned in scripture it is not someplace we want to end up in.....to be shut out of heaven and the presence of God forever.

Regarding Genesis.......I believe everything that is stated in the bible did happen, but parts of it were living parables, expressing spiritual truths, even though the things did happen. It is just that He didn't have it written in order to teach us history, but He wrote it for the reason to teach us spiritual truths. The new testament refers to a lot of the old testament writings, referring to them as real events but also revealing what those truths were.

One thing about the scriptures, His word tests us, for one thing, whether we love the truth or not, He didn't write it to entertain us............His ways and His thoughts are not man's ways, they are much higher.

Hope that is helpful in this conversation......instead of leaning on our own understanding, we must seek the Lord, seek wisdom, seek understanding, from Him, His Spirit. Bless you.

 

[Brotherly Spirit]

I think about it as God has an ideal, but we're flawed. So we tend to fall short of what he expects. We're given mercy when it's too much for us, understanding the difficulty of life he forgives us. But it includes knowing what's in our hearts. Marriage suppose to be a life-long commitment for better or worse. Considering the circumstances, an example would be adultery or abuse; it's understanding how genuinely the need is felt to divorce or separate.

 

[Ron Gurley]

POST #16: Q:"what's your point?
A: RESPONSE to your mistakes in your post #8 and the truths in post #10

The Bible should be spiritually discerned LITERALLY where possible.

RE: Post #1 "he (God) sometimes said something wrong..)
This entire thread is based on a FALSE PREMISE.
God CANNOT say/do anYthing "wrong". The TRI-UNE GOD of the Bible is INFALLIBLE !!

 

[HeLeadethMe]

Just thinking that God's ways, His truth, never changes..........bible says that HE never changes, there is no shadow of turning with Him. But before Yeshua came and died on the cross and rose from the dead, ascending to the Father, which allowed HIS Spirit to be poured out and given to His people.........He knew there were some things that would not always be possible for the Israelites to obey in their own flesh without the help of the Holy Spirit, so in His compassion and mercy He made a way that wives could be put away as humanely as possible, allowing them to remarry, since for a woman without a husband in those days meant either death by starvation or crime, or being forced into prostitution to survive. The Lord did not tell them to divorce, only that IF they divorced they must give the put-away wife a certificate showing that she was free to remarry.

 

[noam burde]

The bible says to LEAN NOT TO OUR OWN UNDERSTANDING but in all our ways acknowledge God, and He will make our paths straight.

Why is this? Because in the new testament we are told that the carnal mind is enmity with God, that it cannot either perceive the things of the Spirit or obey it. We must put on the mind of Christ through the Holy Spirit and He helps us to understand His truths...the Holy Spirit guides us into all truth, it says. The bible is a spiritual book.........the Lord is speaking in spirit to our spirits and hearts, not to our carnal natural minds so much. This is why we must be born again to receive His Holy Spirit and then He will begin to open scripture to our understanding with His help. We cannot "see" the kingdom of God except we be born again, because it is a spiritual kingdom, not a physical one, it can't be perceived by the natural carnal mind of man.

Whatever hell is.....we are certainly warned in scripture it is not someplace we want to end up in.....to be shut out of heaven and the presence of God forever.

Regarding Genesis.......I believe everything that is stated in the bible did happen, but parts of it were living parables, expressing spiritual truths, even though the things did happen. It is just that He didn't have it written in order to teach us history, but He wrote it for the reason to teach us spiritual truths. The new testament refers to a lot of the old testament writings, referring to them as real events but also revealing what those truths were.

One thing about the scriptures, His word tests us, for one thing, whether we love the truth or not, He didn't write it to entertain us............His ways and His thoughts are not man's ways, they are much higher.

Hope that is helpful in this conversation......instead of leaning on our own understanding, we must seek the Lord, seek wisdom, seek understanding, from Him, His Spirit. Bless you.

hay heleadethme.
i am not saying God is unjust or made mistakes in what he said.
i gave this verses to make the point that he didnt just says to us whatever he wanted.
he gave the best teachings he could give and that still people will choose to accept it.
he needed christianity to become eventually the most popular religion in the world. for his messege to reach all that need to hear it. all around the world.

also like when you read some parable. you don't take it literaly. you are using your own understanding to understand what he said.
so i'm also doing that. it s not that i don't base what i say on what he said. i always do that. but i also use logic. and information.
i wrote messeges to others here where i explained more my understanding about this. you can take a look if you want.
i need to go to sleep.
good night.

 

[noam burde]

Just thinking that God's ways, His truth, never changes..........bible says that HE never changes, there is no shadow of turning with Him. But before Yeshua came and died on the cross and rose from the dead, ascending to the Father, which allowed HIS Spirit to be poured out and given to His people.........He knew there were some things that would not always be possible for the Israelites to obey in their own flesh without the help of the Holy Spirit, so in His compassion and mercy He made a way that wives could be put away as humanely as possible, allowing them to remarry, since for a woman without a husband in those days meant either death by starvation or crime, or being forced into prostitution to survive. The Lord did not tell them to divorce, only that IF they divorced they must give the put-away wife a certificate showing that she was free to remarry.

my point with the example was that people are too hard hearted to except somethings.
so God had to say something else. as he said himself.
remember the story of noah.
there was only one person in the world God wanted to proverb.
also jesus said:
13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
we are today also human. so I assume the same problem persist.
so if I see something that really doesn't make sense than I consider this option.
that maybe its because God suffered to say something that people like better in this case.
so they will not reject his messege.
hell is a good example of something like this.
you said "whatever hell is".
according to jesus its a place where people who don't go to heaven burn alive forever.
"41 Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels:"
"46 And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life."
do you think 90+% of the people on earth deserve to burn forever?.
do you know someone that can choose to stand inside a fire for even a minute?
is that some kind of LOVE treatment.
they didn't even choose the character they where born with. and what they fill. and how they where raised and other things that influence them.
that are like 90-99% of why people do what they do.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

my point with the example was that people are too hard hearted to except somethings.
so God had to say something else. as he said himself.
remember the story of noah.
there was only one person in the world God wanted to proverb.
also jesus said:
13“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. 14But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
we are today also human. so I assume the same problem persist.
so if I see something that really doesn't make sense than I consider this option.
that maybe its because God suffered to say something that people like better in this case.
so they will not reject his messege.
hell is a good example of something like this.
you said "whatever hell is".
according to jesus its a place where people who don't go to heaven burn alive forever.
"41 Then will he say to those on the left, Go from me, you cursed ones, into the eternal fire which is ready for the Evil One and his angels:"
"46 And these will go away into eternal punishment; but the upright into eternal life."
do you think 90+% of the people on earth deserve to burn forever?.
do you know someone that can choose to stand inside a fire for even a minute?
is that some kind of LOVE treatment.
they didn't even choose the character they where born with. and what they fill. and how they where raised and other things that influence them.
that are like 90-99% of why people do what they do.

okay, but I think I still have to be in disagreement Noam, because the truth never changes, God never changes....but it was just his instructions to the people under the Law, that because of hardness of heart, he temporarily allowed them a safety valve. But he never changed or compromised the truth that as Jesus said, man leaves mother and father and becomes one flesh with his wife and what God joined together let no man tear asunder...that is an eternal truth that never changed since Adam and Eve.....even though He temporarily allowed them to tear asunder under the Law.

But under the new covenant under Yeshua, we have no excuse, no matter what our temperament is, because He has given us His Spirit..........to no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh. By and through His Spirit we are able to overcome our flesh and walk in the Spirit.......to walk as did He. People may differ in the details of their battles, according to temperaments etc........but all are called to fight the good fight of faith and OVERCOME the flesh and carnal nature.

I know the concept of hell forever seems harsh......it is not a physical fire.....and the physical body turns to dust anyway, but it seems to be a fire of something spiritual, though I don't know exactly what. Our God is a consuming fire....well we don't have to understand what it is anyhow, but just believe Him, what He says about it. But we all have an eternal soul, that is the thing, so there are only two choices and both are eternal due to the eternality of the soul.......either heaven forever or hell forever. I think that is just the reality of the situation. He even says of some, that it would have been better for them never to have been born......sadly, it is just true.

I understand what you are saying, that not many walk the narrow path, this is true, not many find it, not many are righteous, and some are under heavier temptations for whatever reasons......it is just another reality of life.......however nobody has an excuse because the gospel of Christ is still the answer for ALL of our sins and unrighteousness, whether small or great. ALL the sins of mankind, small and great, were laid on Yeshua at the cross, His blood avails for all sins and His Spirit allows anybody to overcome any sins, small or great. With man, impossible.............but with God - His Spirit - nothing is impossible.

I hope I am not misunderstanding what you are saying, I seem to have trouble with that lately, so forgive me if I am. We're just doing our best here, help me Jesus. Bless you Noam.

 

[noam burde]

okay, but I think I still have to be in disagreement Noam, because the truth never changes, God never changes....but it was just his instructions to the people under the Law, that because of hardness of heart, he temporarily allowed them a safety valve. But he never changed or compromised the truth that as Jesus said, man leaves mother and father and becomes one flesh with his wife and what God joined together let no man tear asunder...that is an eternal truth that never changed since Adam and Eve.....even though He temporarily allowed them to tear asunder under the Law.

But under the new covenant under Yeshua, we have no excuse, no matter what our temperament is, because He has given us His Spirit..........to no longer fulfill the lusts of the flesh. By and through His Spirit we are able to overcome our flesh and walk in the Spirit.......to walk as did He. People may differ in the details of their battles, according to temperaments etc........but all are called to fight the good fight of faith and OVERCOME the flesh and carnal nature.

I know the concept of hell forever seems harsh......it is not a physical fire.....and the physical body turns to dust anyway, but it seems to be a fire of something spiritual, though I don't know exactly what. Our God is a consuming fire....well we don't have to understand what it is anyhow, but just believe Him, what He says about it. But we all have an eternal soul, that is the thing, so there are only two choices and both are eternal due to the eternality of the soul.......either heaven forever or hell forever. I think that is just the reality of the situation. He even says of some, that it would have been better for them never to have been born......sadly, it is just true.

I understand what you are saying, that not many walk the narrow path, this is true, not many find it, not many are righteous, and some are under heavier temptations for whatever reasons......it is just another reality of life.......however nobody has an excuse because the gospel of Christ is still the answer for ALL of our sins and unrighteousness, whether small or great. ALL the sins of mankind, small and great, were laid on Yeshua at the cross, His blood avails for all sins and His Spirit allows anybody to overcome any sins, small or great. With man, impossible.............but with God - His Spirit - nothing is impossible.

I hope I am not misunderstanding what you are saying, I seem to have trouble with that lately, so forgive me if I am. We're just doing our best here, help me Jesus. Bless you Noam.

ahh. I understood why he said this now (I deed also before but I was confused by other peoples views).
its hard to understand right. but its possible.
sense I understand that it doesn't make sense that he will horribly torcher most of humanity forever.
than I have to go for the other option of what he said can mean.
look. he said in the parable of weeds. that he will take the grain to the barn and the weeds he will burn.
in the verses I quoted in the last message of matthew 25 he said he will burn the not righteous. and take the righteous to heaven.
so I think he means he will in most cases just eternaly eliminate them. like the farmer eliminated the weeds.
but as you said "He even says of some, that it would have been better for them never to have been born"
than aperently there will be some real bad ones that he will actualy torcher them for some time. and only than eliminate them.
I don't see any other way to understand this that make sense.
I do think though that he made it sound like the usual understanding of they will be tormented forever. to make the religion more popular. along with other things in the bible.
because he needed to Christianity to spread across the world.
and Judaism to survive. so he needed to be somewhat populistic.
but he kept it possible to understand right. if one reads between the lines.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

ahh. I understood why he said this now (I deed also before but I was confused by other peoples views).
its hard to understand right. but its possible.
sense I understand that it doesn't make sense that he will horribly torcher most of humanity forever.
than I have to go for the other option of what he said can mean.
look. he said in the parable of weeds. that he will take the grain to the barn and the weeds he will burn.
in the verses I quoted in the last message of matthew 25 he said he will burn the not righteous. and take the righteous to heaven.
so I think he means he will in most cases just eternaly eliminate them. like the farmer eliminated the weeds.
but as you said "He even says of some, that it would have been better for them never to have been born"
than aperently there will be some real bad ones that he will actualy torcher them for some time. and only than eliminate them.
I don't see any other way to understand this that make sense.
I do think though that he made it sound like the usual understanding of they will be tormented forever. to make the religion more popular. along with other things in the bible.
because he needed to Christianity to spread across the world.
and Judaism to survive. so he needed to be somewhat populistic.
but he kept it possible to understand right. if one reads between the lines.

Noam, I do not have much understanding of hell and have never really tried to study it out.......I guess because it is an unpleasant subject :/ ....but here are some scriptures that I looked up and we will just try to see what they tell us:

Exodus 16:24 So they put it aside until morning, as Moses had ordered, and it did not become foul nor was there any worm in it. (speaking of the manna put aside for the Sabbath day)


Job 25:6 How much less man, that maggot, And the son of man, that worm!”

Psalm 22:6 But I am a worm and not a man,
A reproach of men and despised by the people.

Isaiah 41:14
“Do not fear, you worm Jacob, you men of Israel;
I will help you,” declares the LORD, “[fn]and your Redeemer is the Holy One of Israel.

Isaiah 66:24
“Then they will go forth and look
On the corpses of the men
Who have [fn]transgressed against Me.
For their worm will not die
And their fire will not be quenched;
And they will be an abhorrence to all [fn]mankind.”

Here is Jesus referring to this same scripture (Isa 66:24) again in Mark 9, which confirms that it is speaking of hell:

Mark 9:43-49 And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:

Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

For every one shall be salted with fire, and every sacrifice shall be salted with salt.



Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


So looking at those scriptures, I am gleaning that hell has to do with corruption, it is the corruption (worm/maggot) that is already in the unregenerate man, if we are not born again and washed of our corruption in the Bood of the Lamb, then we will be subject to some kind of eternal corruption feeding on us, as it were. And it also seems to say that this will just will go on forever, never quenched, ie, if body and SOUL are destroyed in hell, there is no way for that soul to later go to heaven, since it is destroyed, in whatever sense that might mean. That is what those scrips seem to be implying. It is not that God tortures anybody, I think it is more that they are in torment from their own corruption...?
And also I have heard some say that because the Lord is just.......those who are guilty of lesser sins will suffer less in hell than those who committed much worse sins, from what I have heard, but again I haven't studied it and don't remember what scrips those who say that base it on, or whether it is true or not.....just mentioning it as a possibility. Either way I'm sure we agree that neither we want to end up there ourselves, nor do we want to see anybody else end up there, and that is the most important point!

 

[HeLeadethMe]

....doing a bible word search of "incorruption" and "corruption" also brings up a lot of verses that might also be helpful.

May I just make a point about what the OP was discussing, I couldn't get my thoughts clear on it before for some reason (not young any more, heh) but I hope this will help as well.

As human beings if we were going to start a "religion" we would naturally want it to be successful and popular, and have many people subscribe to it, so to speak, so we would try to package it in such a way as to make it appeal to as many people as possible, so I can understand why someone would consider that as a possibility. But we have to remember that scripture says God's ways are not our ways, neither are His thoughts like our thoughts........His ways and thoughts are higher than man's ways and thoughts.

A scripture passage that came to mind is in the gospel of John 6:47-69, where Jesus was talking about eating his body and drinking his blood.........if He wanted to make Christianity popular He would have worded this teaching in such a way as to not offend the people He was talking to......but instead the way He said it, was very provoking and offensive to the Jews of His day, especially the religious leaders. And it says in this passage that many stopped following Him after that. But notice how He said that this was to show how one could only come and believe in Him if the Father draws them......because if the Father draws a person by the Holy Spirit, it bypasses all cultural, intellectual, fleshly and religious objections and offence. So we can see by this, that He wasn't trying to make Himself popular, but He spoke the truth in such a way as to actually test and weed out those whose faith was not genuinely of the Holy Spirit.

I would like to ask you Noam, about the Temple....since I see you are from Israel....and I'm wondering if you can give an idea about how the rebuilding of the third Temple is regarded by believers there in Israel in general. I would like to let you know something very important that the Lord showed me....how the temple will be so very strongly deceptive, deceiving even the elect if it were possible, because it will be the seat of antichrist, false messiah.....so I just want to tell you to be very very careful of it, if it is built, to keep away from the temple and have nothing to do with it. In this age, WE who follow the Lord and believe in His Son are His temple now, and He requires no physical building to be His earthly temple.....to simply obey Christ is better than sacrifice. May the Lord bless and keep you.

 

[noam burde]

I don't know of any plan to build a 3 temple.
but anyway I don't believe in the part of the NT that is after the gospel books.
and a big part to why I don't accept this part. is that all the prophecies there either failed (like the one you mentioned), or can't be verified, or repeat an earlier prophecy, or just don't make enough sense to even understand what the prophets is even prophesying.

 

[HeLeadethMe]

I don't know of any plan to build a 3 temple.
but anyway I don't believe in the part of the NT that is after the gospel books.
and a big part to why I don't accept this part. is that all the prophecies there either failed (like the one you mentioned), or can't be verified, or repeat an earlier prophecy, or just don't make enough sense to even understand what the prophets is even prophesying.

Hi Noam, and may the Lord bless you........I don't know if you have experienced the new birth yet, if not I encourage you to seek the Lord for that. When we are born of the Spirit then the Holy Spirit helps us to understand the scriptures...including the writings of the apostles. He opens them to the eyes of our understanding.

I'm amazed at what you say about the writings following the gospels, that you don't believe they are legitimate, I have never heard anybody say that before. Please talk to me about which prophecies failed, brother? And please remind me what prophecy I was talking about which failed...sorry for my memory but I can't remember. :/

 

[Strong in Him]

first I want to remind you this verses matthew 19:7-8:
"7They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

as you can see God explains hear that he sometimes said something wrong because he knew people would not except the truth if he gave it to them.

I think it far more likely that God said it because he knew people weren't ready to hear the truth, or a particular teaching - just as you would not explain the resurrection, Trinity etc to a 3 year old. You would simplify it, or explain it in a way that they could handle/relate to.

The idea that God can, and sometimes did, make mistakes, raises other issues and problems.

I will not name all this things, because there is a lot. and I will probably miss some.
but here are some things like this:
hell, the devil, demons, the stories in genesis I think are parables. but a lot of people take them as history(like the garden of eden, the flood, the creation in 7 days 5000 years ago).
I wonder if someone else agrees or partly agrees about these.

Jesus spoke, and taught, about hell, and called the devil a "liar and a murder from the beginning". He wouldn't have called a parable, evil.
The Bible does not say that the world was created 5000 years ago.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

duplicate post

 

[noam burde]

Hi Noam, and may the Lord bless you........I don't know if you have experienced the new birth yet, if not I encourage you to seek the Lord for that. When we are born of the Spirit then the Holy Spirit helps us to understand the scriptures...including the writings of the apostles. He opens them to the eyes of our understanding.

I'm amazed at what you say about the writings following the gospels, that you don't believe they are legitimate, I have never heard anybody say that before. Please talk to me about which prophecies failed, brother? And please remind me what prophecy I was talking about which failed...sorry for my memory but I can't remember. :/

paul and his successors failed to make even 1 clear genuine prophecy (not repeating previous prophecy) that came true.
they did make many that failed.
unlike the true prophets before them that made more then 100 clear supernatural prophesies that we know for a fact actually came true. and not 1 failed prophecy...
that makes paul and some of his successors false prophets (matthew 7:15-19).
like for example paul and his successors prophesied that some people living in those times will still be alive in the second coming. which will happen in a short time/soon. they are obviously dead. and the world still exist. so that failed.
it also obviously doesn't make sense that god would finish the world before anyone even received his teachings.
1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
1 John 2:18
Revelation 1:1 + Revelation 22:20

also they predicted that in a short time the devil will be jailed for a 1000 years. and Christ will rule for a 1000 years.
Revelation 1:1 and Revelation 20

that also didn't happen. not in short or even long time...
and we are in the last days.
because prophecies of actual prophets regarding the last days already came true (jesus, ezikiel, Isaiah). so this means we are in the last years of the history of this world.
so there is not even a 1000+ years left for this to happen.
also again it doesn't make sense.
its against the plan of God for this world that people will have no reason or will to do wrong/bad/evil. which is what would have happened if there was no devil and God would be the king of this world.

so according to matthew 7:15-19 we should ignore them.

 

[Strong in Him]

paul and his successors failed to make even 1 clear genuine prophecy (not repeating previous prophecy) that came true.

Paul was not a prophet and not called to prophesy.
Prophecy is not spiritual fortune telling.

they did make many that failed.
that makes them false prophets...

No.
But if you believe that it does, and that Paul, and the early church, are false; presumably you don't trust , anything that they write or teach?

like for example paul and his successors prophesied that some people living in those times will still be alive in the second coming. which will happen in a short time/soon. they are obviously dead. and the wold still exist. so that failed.

No.
The early church believed that Jesus would return in their lifetime, but they didn't say, "this is a prophecy; the Lord will return in this year/month".

also thay predicted that in a short time the devil will be jailed for a 1000 years. and Christ will rule for a 1000 years.
that also didn't happen.

They said, "soon" because they believed that it might be in their lifetime.
But also, God is outside time, so when he says "soon", it could be 1,000,000 years in our time.

and we are in the last days.

People have been waiting for the second coming ever since the ascension; we've been in the last days for centuries.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18

This isn't a prophecy; Paul believed that the Lord would return in his lifetime.
He was wrong, but as Jesus said that no one knows the day or hour, that isn't surprising. What would have made him a false prophet would have been if he'd said, "the Lord is coming on ....... day; guaranteed, and this is what will happen."

1 John 2:18

John said it was the last hour. Obviously he didn't mean that literally; he wrote 3 more chapters of that letter, 2 other letters and Revelation, which would have all taken far more than an hour to write.
Either he meant "the last days", because he thought Jesus was about to return, or he meant "the last days before persecution". Or maybe he meant that they were in the final stages of the end of the world. We have had creation, the fall, salvation through Jesus, the Gospel of the kingdom being preached, and we are now waiting for the final chapter; Jesus' return. On God's "clock", we ARE in the last hour; because he is outside time, though, that "hour" could last a couple of centuries.

Revelation 1:1 + Revelation 22:20 (must read both to understand how wrong It is)

Revelation is the Revelation of Jesus, which was given to John. It is from the Lord, not the apostle.
There is a difference between God saying, "I am coming soon", and an apostle saying, "the Lord IS returning on ..... day" - not that any of the apostles said that anyway.

I think the mistake many of us make is that we look at Scripture, see the word "soon", and think "that must mean, "soon, according to our time, and our understanding of the word." It doesn't.

 

[noam burde]

I think it far more likely that God said it because he knew people weren't ready to hear the truth, or a particular teaching - just as you would not explain the resurrection, Trinity etc to a 3 year old. You would simplify it, or explain it in a way that they could handle/relate to.

The idea that God can, and sometimes did, make mistakes, raises other issues and problems.



Jesus spoke, and taught, about hell, and called the devil a "liar and a murder from the beginning". He wouldn't have called a parable, evil.
The Bible does not say that the world was created 5000 years ago.

I did not say God made mistakes.

you think later people somehow become much better/can handle anything/wanting to know the truth about anything?.
I think people stayed basically the same.

the devil is a metaphor for the desire to do bad/wrong/evil.

if you read genesis as a history book.
then it says the world is a few thousands years old.
beacause if you connect the ages from the beginning till the end, you get a few thousend years.
but I don't do that.