things God said because people didn't want the truth

[noam burde]

first I want to remind you this verses matthew 19:7-8:
"7They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

as you can see God explains hear that he sometimes said something wrong because he knew people would not except the truth if he gave it to them.
I think there are a lot of other cases like this. but that he didn't explain this yet because it was also in the time jesus was hear more than people were willing to except.
I will not name all this things, because there is a lot. and I will probably miss some.
but here are some things like this:
hell, the devil, demons, the stories in genesis I think are parables. but a lot of people take them as history(like the garden of eden, the flood, the creation in 7 days 5000 years ago).
I wonder if someone else agrees or partly agrees about these.

 

[-V-]

as you can see God explains hear [sic] that he sometimes said something wrong ...

I'd have to disagree on your interpretation that God ever said anything wrong.

the creation in 7 days 5000 years ago).

The Bible never says it was 5000 years ago.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

first I want to remind you this verses matthew 19:7-8:
"7They said to him, “Why then did Moses command one to give a certificate of divorce and to send her away?” 8He said to them, “Because of your hardness of heart Moses allowed you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9And I say to you: whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another, commits adultery.”

as you can see God explains hear that he sometimes said something wrong because he knew people would not except the truth if he gave it to them.
I think there are a lot of other cases like this. but that he didn't explain this yet because it was also in the time jesus was hear more than people were willing to except.
I will not name all this things, because there is a lot. and I will probably miss some.
but here are some things like this:
hell, the devil, demons, the stories in genesis I think are parables. but a lot of people take them as history(like the garden of eden, the flood, the creation in 7 days 5000 years ago).
I wonder if someone else agrees or partly agrees about these.

It's not that He said something "wrong". Rather, He gave us second best when we wouldn't accept best.

 

[dayhiker]

People have been saying parts of the Bible aren't true for a very long time.
I've found its more likely that we don't understand what the Bible is or we have misinterpreted the message of the Bible.

 

[noam burde]

I'd have to disagree on your interpretation that God ever said anything wrong.


The Bible never says it was 5000 years ago.

If you add the ages of the people from the beginning its about 5000.

 

[dayhiker]

My understanding was that it was about 6000 years. But then were those genealogies designed to tells how many years passed from the creation of the universe or show a lineage?

 

[-V-]

If you add the ages of the people from the beginning its about 5000.

You can't use the genealogies that way.
6. Coming to Grips with Genealogies (Genesis 5:1-32)

Just a couple excerpts:

• "genealogies were not intended to be used as a chronology"
• "The naming of individuals did not necessarily imply that a continuous sequence was to be assumed. Often names were omitted and genealogical lists were selective"
• "The expression ‘A begat B’ does not always imply direct parentage."

Read the article, it goes much more in depth.

But then were those genealogies designed to tells how many years passed from the creation of the universe

No, see the article above.

or show a lineage?

*A* lineage, sure. But not always directly.

 

[noam burde]

I'd have to disagree on your interpretation that God ever said anything wrong.


The Bible never says it was 5000 years ago.

The Bible never says the world was created 5000 years ago. but people that take everything in it literaly belive it did. because if you connect the ages of the people from the beginning you get about 5000.
but again I see genesis as a book of parables about the beginning of humanity. not history. so I don't think God said that.
I think he just knew it will only be interesting enough for most people to read.
if there is a naked woman and man. and forbidden food, and spinning sword of fire. and a place were people they don't like will burn forever. and a devil and demons and other things like.
but if you think about this things rationaly. you would see thay can't be real.
i'm thinking what they maybe mean somesimbolicly or metaphoricly.

 

[FrankDux]

1 Kings 22:23 + 2 Chronicles 18:21

2 Thessalonians 2:11

Judges 9:23

All great verses

 

[-V-]

if there is a naked woman and man. and forbidden food, and spinning sword of fire. and a place were people they don't like will burn forever. and a devil and demons and other things like.
but if you think about this things rationaly. you would see thay can't be real.

Again, wrong.

If we accept the existence of God, I see absolutely no "rational" reason whatsoever that 1) Adam & Eve being naked; 2) the forbidden fruit; 3) spinning sword of fire (which was wielded by angels, btw, not just some magic sword there by itself); 4) hell; 5) the devil; or 6) demons are not real.

I should also add that, if you actually think the Bible says that people end up in hell because "God doesn't like them," then you have horribly misunderstood the Bible's teachings about hell.

 

[RaymondG]

1 Kings 22:23 + 2 Chronicles 18:21

2 Thessalonians 2:11

Judges 9:23

All great verses

What insight do you obtain from these verses? Why are they great to you?

 

[noam burde]

1 Kings 22:23 + 2 Chronicles 18:21

2 Thessalonians 2:11

Judges 9:23

All great verses

thanks a lot for all those examples.
they show that God uses any tool he think would work. including saying something that is technically wrong. if he knows in the end it will have a good result.
those examples are a deferent kind of technically wrong, then what I was talking about tough.
I meant saying something technically wrong for the propose making what he is saying more fun or acceptable or interesting.
but they are also relevant in this context.

 

[FrankDux]

thanks a lot for all those examples.
they show that God uses any tool he think would work. including saying something that is technically wrong. if he knows in the end it will have a good result.
those examples are a deferent kind of technically wrong, then what I was talking about tough.
I meant saying something technically wrong for the propose making what he is saying more fun or acceptable or interesting.
but they are also relevant in this context.

I look at it this way

Lies are a type of subversion

Subversion is a tactic of warfare

The Lord is a man of war ( as per the scriptures )

The lord would be facing a world full of Godless heathens and future apostates ( Not just within Christianity )

What better way to wage war on them then with their own ways ?

 

[noam burde]

It's not that He said something "wrong". Rather, He gave us second best when we wouldn't accept best.

I don't mean wrong as he did something wrong. or made a mistake.
I mean wrong as in not true.
for example the idea of hell. if you try to actually imagine it. remember what it feels like to get burned or if you didn't get burned. then the most painfull thing that happened to you.
now imagine your whole body felt like that. and it continues on and on forever.
can you see this is infinitely cruel punishment?. and totally unproportional to how much most people(I don't think most people will go to heaven) deserve to suffer. all those people around you.
even if someone is especially bad.
he 90-99% acted according to a character that he was born with and where he was born. and how he was raised. all of this is not his choice.
so I don't believe this is going to happen.
I think this, and other things that don't make sense that God said(through prophets). are because people would reject or ignore his prophets if he didn't talk in a somewhat fun, interesting, acceptibale way.

 

[Ron Gurley]

Hebrews 12 (NASB)
7 Endure hardship as discipline (training);
God is treating you as his children.
For what children are not disciplined by their father?

YAHWEH (LORD/Master) of the OT =
God the Father of the NT.

He is perfectly Loving/Merciful...AND...
He is perfectly JUST and FAIR.

Mankind chooses whether they want to be "children of God"...or...NOT.

God spiritually calls/draws/knocks to ALL. EACH Man's spirit must accept or reject.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

1 Chronicles 28:9...KING David to wise son Solomon
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

 

[noam burde]

Hebrews 12 (NASB)
7 Endure hardship as discipline (training);
God is treating you as his children.
For what children are not disciplined by their father?

YAHWEH (LORD/Master) of the OT =
God the Father of the NT.

He is perfectly Loving/Merciful...AND...
He is perfectly JUST and FAIR.

Mankind chooses whether they want to be "children of God"...or...NOT.

God spiritually calls/draws/knocks to ALL. EACH Man's spirit must accept or reject.

Deuteronomy 30:19
I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse.
So CHOOSE LIFE in order that you may live, you and your descendants,

1 Chronicles 28:9...KING David to wise son Solomon
“As for you, my son Solomon,
know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind;
for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts.
If you seek Him, He will let you find Him;
but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

I don't want to be rude. but what's your point?

 

[RaymondG]

I don't want to be rude. but what's your point?

I asked him this in another thread. It is just the way the "holy spirit" makes him write. We have to take it or leave it.

 

[Paul of Eugene OR]

I don't mean wrong as he did something wrong. or made a mistake.
I mean wrong as in not true.
for example the idea of hell. if you try to actually imagine it. remember what it feels like to get burned or if you didn't get burned. then the most painfull thing that happened to you.
now imagine your whole body felt like that. and it continues on and on forever.
can you see this is infinitely cruel punishment?. and totally unproportional to how much most people(I don't think most people will go to heaven) deserve to suffer. all those people around you.
even if someone is especially bad.
he 90-99% acted according to a character that he was born with and where he was born. and how he was raised. all of this is not his choice.
so I don't believe this is going to happen.
I think this, and other things that don't make sense that God said(through prophets). are because people would reject or ignore his prophets if he didn't talk in a somewhat fun, interesting, acceptibale way.

If you are correct . . . it would be a very reasonable thing to note that many people even today are as unready for the real truth as they were in the days of Moses.

 

[-V-]

1 Kings 22:23 + 2 Chronicles 18:21

No, this is NOT God being deceitful. First, people have to understand that the Bible was not written by modern English historians. It was written by different people living in different cultures with different ways of viewing theology and with different ways of writing. OT writers often ignored secondary causation with God. Meaning, things are sometimes stated as being done by God when He merely allowed them to happen. These two passages are about false prophets who were already lying to people, they already had a lying spirit. What is happening here is God is allowing the lying spirit to continue because it (while being against God) will unwittingly serve His purposes and bring about its own downfall and the downfall of the wicked false prophets who are using it.

2 Thessalonians 2:11

Again, this is God simply allowing people to follow the deception they were already following, and God letting it happen because they will unwittingly end up bringing about God's will anyway.

Judges 9:23

First, there's no lying or falsehood involved here. Second, the Hebrew for "evil" doesn't always have an ethical connotation, it's not necessarily referring to something immoral. "Evil" can just mean harmful or calamitous toward the subject. God sends judgments against the wicked, which is harmful or calamitous to the wicked people, yet God is not doing anything wrong or immoral in that.

 

[FrankDux]

well, v,

You are making arguments based on nothing I said or believe, I'll just ignore you too