They Deserve a State ??

yod · Jun 19, 2007

That soundbyte of info doesn't tell the story though.

Does any one of you want the truth?

Here is the context, background, and progression of how it started and what has happened since

http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

These are just a snapshot of the irrefutable facts

MezzaMorta · Jun 19, 2007

yod said:
http://www.terrorismawareness.org/what-really-happened/

Yod posting, yet another racist hate site. Who would have guessed. Wasnt it just a few days ago that your last racist site promotion was deleted? Please, stop with such offensive and insulting links. The racism directed towards Arabs of these sites is extremely offensive, not to mention this site promotes hatred against Mexicans, Liberals, Palestinians and various other groups.

yod · Jun 19, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
Yod posting, yet another racist hate site…. Who would have guessed. Wasn’t it just a few days ago that your last racist site promotion was deleted? Please, stop with such offensive and insulting links. The racism directed towards Arabs of these sites is extremely offensive, not to mention this site promotes hatred against Mexicans, “Liberals”, Palestinians and various other groups.

Those are the historical facts which are supported by quotes from even arab leaders. It shows how intellectually dishonest you are being.

FreeinChrist · Jun 19, 2007

That was an excellent video!!

yod · Jun 19, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
Yod posting, yet another racist hate site…. Who would have guessed. Wasn’t it just a few days ago that your last racist site promotion was deleted? Please, stop with such offensive and insulting links. The racism directed towards Arabs of these sites is extremely offensive, not to mention this site promotes hatred against Mexicans, “Liberals”, Palestinians and various other groups.

Keep spouting your poison.

icedtea · Jun 19, 2007

Lets just discuss the state of Israel.

christinepro · Jun 19, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
60 years of short sighted foreign policy on the part of America in the Middle East.

As for 9/11, this is assuming that the people the government claim the hijackers were is true. There is enough compelling evidence to show that there is a lot more to the story than what CNN and the President tell us.

I think this goes really deep. Bush is just a pawn in the Illuminati. I think they all get together and talk. Iran wants to see Israel blown off the map. Their Hamas is funding the Palestinians at this point.

ScottBot · Jun 19, 2007

Please keep the comments on point and germain to the topic. Ad hominem statements lend nothing to the conversation and are potentially grounds for disciplinary action. This is an important conversation that needs to be had and it serves no one if we are forced to close it because of mud-slinging. Thank you.

MezzaMorta · Jun 19, 2007

christinepro said:
I think this goes really deep. Bush is just a pawn in the Illuminati. I think they all get together and talk. Iran wants to see Israel blown off the map. Their Hamas is funding the Palestinians at this point.

[FONT=&quot]Bush is a pawn to the Israeli lobby which has dominated the Republican party for the past 40 years, catered to by his Fundamentalist Christian base which has been manipulated into supporting Israel due to that lobby. It is a circle of deceit and deception that caused this all. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Iran is concerned with an illigimate and immoral entity in its region that is the cause of great oppression, persecution, war and ethnic cleansing in the region. It is the call of all Arabs and their friends to do what ever we can to bring an end to the evil reign of the Zionist entity and its 60 year campaign of terrorism, oppression and genocide against the Arab people.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The Iranian military is the most powerful in the region, one of the largest and strongest in the world. Eaisly capable of destroying Israel in a conventional conflict. God willing they will be able to use that power to exert power in the region and force Israel to respect human rights and UN resolutions. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]

christinepro · Jun 19, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
[FONT=&quot]It is more propaganda from the Zionist war machine, at least they learned a thing or two from Joseph Goebbels. You have posted hate site after hate site, all of which have been deleted because of the racism and bigotry you have tried to promote on this forum. This is just another of those sites. [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]. [/FONT]

I have seen plenty of Arab propaganda. My son downloaded lots of it. Why cant people just love each other?

MezzaMorta · Jun 19, 2007

christinepro said:
I have seen plenty of Arab propaganda. My son downloaded lots of it. Why cant people just love each other?

No one said it did not exist as well.

But I’m not posting links to “Nation of Islam” or “Hamas” here.

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

Gwenyfur said:
errr...you might want to rephrase that...as I've posted posted links to legitimate news agencies which disprove a lot of what's been said.

No, they don't disprove anything. Perhaps you should quote the pertinent sections you think prove anything.

That's a blatant falsehood
link

No Gwen, it is not a blatant falsehood .. it is the truth. Where are the written records and family lines one can trace oneself back to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

You linked us to are article on genetics that is based on many ASSUMPTIONS and SPECULATIONS, and states this to be so right in the article itself:

Using these findings as a basis, perhaps we can speculate and consider some implications of the findings.

If the CMH is the genetic signature of Aaron, the father of the Kohanim

Thus, it is very reasonable to assume that the CMH, the most common haplotype among Jewish males, is therefore also the genetic signature of the Patriarch Abraham.

"Based on the dating of the Most Recent Common Ancestor of the Kohanim as approximately 3300 years, it is not unreasonable to assume that it is the male descendants of Patriarch Abraham today who possess this DNA signature. However, Abraham may not be the exclusive source of these markers, for they are a component of a more ancient Middle Eastern gene pool.

It also tells us that what is claimed to pertain to a segment of the Jews is not exclusive to the Jews:

"Further genetic studies have found that the CMH-the Cohen Modal Haplotype-a haplotype of the MED (J) haplogroup-is not exclusive to Kohanim, and not unique to Jews. It is also found in significant percentages among other Middle Eastern populations, and to a lesser extent, among southern Mediterranean groups."

"Besides the Jews, there are other populations that share the "Abrahamic Genetic Signature" as their primary Y-markers. These include Lebanese, Syrians, Druze, Iraqi Kurds, some southern and central Italians, and Hungarians. It is also found among some Armenians."

So you keep saying, however Scripture and G-d's covenant says otherwise.

Again, no real proof.

Covenants are a PERMANENT thing, NEVER broken, NEVER discarded.

That is absolutely not true. Covenants CAN be broken. They are NOT necessarily permanent. They can become obsolete and pass away as we are told of by Paul.

Covenants have conditions, blessings and cursings. If the conditions are not met, the covenant can be broken.

Covenants end with the death of one of the parties. That is why the marriage covenant comes to a natural end with the death of one of the spouses.

Covenants end when predetermined to end as is the case of the anceint Nation of Israel. "olam' does not mean eternal. It means an unknown period of time with a beginning and an end. The Covenant with Israel was for "olam".

Covenants can end when they are broken.

If they were, we'd all be going to hell, as Salvation is a Covenant...

A covenant with conditions, with blessings and cursings. A covenant that can be broken, not by God for God is faithful and true, but by man.

There are many who think they are going to heaven who may find out otherwise . . . . . .

.

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

Amor Vincit Omnia said:
Interesting read for those of you who carry a Catholic icon and seem hell-bent on the destruction of Israel, the Vatican doesn't share your view.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/holysee.html

That's a strawman AVO . . . you attacked one of MM's statement focused on the Palestinian side, yet commended his statement focused on the Israeli side, yet apparently do not realize he was saying the same thing from two different persepctives.

It is a failure to understand this simple fact that leads one to the strawman argument that Catholics here who condemn Israel's terrorist acts are "hell-bent on the destruction of Israel". That is nothing more than bearing false witness against your own brethern.

I think it would be good to focus on what is actually being said by those who take a stand against Israel's political game rather than this fabricated polemic strawman which has no basis in reality. It is quite offensive actually.

.

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

Amor Vincit Omnia said:
I am looking for the biblical passage where God gave Israel a bill of divorce and put her out.

I am wondering why, as a Catholic, you hold to an eschatological view contrary to the consistant teaching of the Catholic Church that denies a restoration of Israel according to God's promises of the land to Abraham.

The Catholic Church is generally amillenialist, but specifically denounces millenarianism, from which the teaching of a restored national Israel in end times comes from.

So, why are you arguing against Catholic teaching on this subject and falsely accusing Catholics here who uphold such teachings as though we are "promoting the destruction of Israel" ?

You act as though Israel has continuing BIBLICAL right to this land . .. . the Catholic Church says no, regardless of the legal right under current international law this Zionist state calling itself Israel may have.

There is no biblical right anymore AVO . . that there is is merely dispensationalist propaganda . . .why have you, as a Catholic, bought into it?

And since when is the bible the supreme authority for a Catholic? Are you now holding to the concept of "sola scriptura"???

If not, then what is this demand for a scripture verse to prove what the Church teaches is true?

.

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

Amor Vincit Omnia said:
How many Israelis strap C4 to their chest and blow themselves to smithereens in a crowded market? Hypocrisy indeed.

So, just because C4 wasn't available when the Zionist terrorist were using bombs made of the materials they had at hand to blow up crowded markets, that somehow makes them more noble than the Palestinian terrorists?

No, it is not I who am being the hypocrit here AVO.

Have you ever bothered to read the UN report of Zionist terrorism back during the British Mandate? It is no different than what the news reports today from the Palestinians.

Why do you support a state built upon such terrorism which you condemn Palestinians for?

Is that not the very definition of hypocrisy?

I can't believe what I am hearing from you.

.

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

Amor Vincit Omnia said:
I am looking for the biblical passage where God gave Israel a bill of divorce and put her out.

By the way, the ancient 1st century Christians understood that is exactly what happened in 70AD. That is why they paid no heed to the Jewish council of Jamnia which discarded the Septuagint the Christians used. They understood that authority had passed now from the Jewish nation to the Chrsitian Church and the Jewish nation was no more in convenant with God.

When the Jews finally recognize their savior, it will not be as a nation in their ancient land, for that convenant is gone, done away with. It will be as people who join themselves to the Church, the One New Man God is making of both Jew and Gentile. For in Christ there is neither Jew nor Gentile, but ONE NEW MAN.

There is no place for a nation of Israel based on the land promises made to Abraham. That would make TWO people, promoting the division between Jew and Gentile which Christ came to destroy.. That would make them not part of the ONE NEW MAN in Christ both Jew and Gentile are to become, the distinction between the done away with.

IF there is a separate nation of Israel, then there is of necessity a distinction betwen them and the rest of the world, the gentiles, and if that is true, then they can never be part of the ONE NEW MAN Christ came to make of the twain . . . and that would void Christ's work on the cross to make of both ONE NEW MAN. . .

Sorry AVO, can't have it both ways . . .

.
.

A Brother In Christ · Jun 19, 2007

cavell said:
You might not know there is a civil war raging right now as the media is looking the other way. I'll explain why in a moment. Violence has reached new heights over the past few days, with running gun-battles taking place in Gaza hospitals, schools, mosques, and streets, between Hamas and Fatah thugs.

There are mutual assassination attempts directed against the leaders of the two groups. Gaza's real Christians are at risk as the local Baptist church has about 150 members who need your prayers.

As a result, total chaos reigns in Gaza, the land Israel surrendered not that long ago. Appeasement never works. I hope American leaders are taking notes. What we are witnessing is the meltdown of the Palestinian Authority as armed warlords battle each other for control and kill their own people without batting an eye.

And these folks deserve a state of their own??

These folks would live side by side in peace with Israel if they just had their own borders and international recognition??

Here's one reason the media looks the other way: Both violent elements as well as the victims are Palestinian and hence, the media cannot blame Israel.

One news source that at one time would give it major media time, Fox News, is absorbed with Paris Hilton and majoring in other minors.

So why should Israel turn over MORE control to the radicals? Because the world pressures them into doing so. Fatah and Hamas cannot even keep their own house in order, and use unspeakable acts of violence to settle their home-grown rivalries.
If and when this civil war winds down we find there is still a global effort to give these folks their "own homeland," and in the process, yank the land from Israel, I shudder to think of what kind of a scenario would develop.

If Israel caves and grants them their wishes, then the inmates are running the asylum.

God is in control, however. He uses such events for His purposes.

exodus 19:4-8, 10-12

not are job to give land to Israel ... God Job

christinepro · Jun 19, 2007

MezzaMorta said:
No one said it did not exist as well.

But Im not posting links to Nation of Islam or Hamas here.

I see you are Catholic. I know that Catholics believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Don't they?

thereselittleflower · Jun 19, 2007

christinepro said:
I see you are Catholic. I know that Catholics believe in the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob. Don't they?

Catholics also believe that Christ came to do away with the divisions between Jew and Gentile, and to creat One New Man . . as the scripture say, there is no more Jew or Gentile in Christ.

Your paradigm would still have 2 distinct people, Jew and Gentile, not One New Man.

.

christinepro · Jun 19, 2007

A Brother In Christ said:
exodus 19:4-8, 10-12

not are job to give land to Israel ... God Job

Check out Joshua. If Israel accepts God then they will be able to keep the land. In the story of Maccabees they won the battle with very few people because they stood with God.

They Deserve a State ??

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