These are the only Churches back then?

[DamianWarS]

Its a hard study because there are different versions of history. Even my professor taught it differently.

The way my professor taught it. There was only one Church, the Catholic Church which started with apostle Peter, then Christianity was allowed in Rome by Constantine. The Churches in the East rejected the Pope and had a Schism 1054.

The way I learned it myself:
There were East and West Churches simultaneously, with different theological, political, and hierarchal influences. There were 2 minor schisms, with the Nestorians (Hypostatic Union), and the Chalcedon (Not even sure what happened). As time grew the tensions of East and West grew, the concept of a Pope didn't fly with the East neither did some teachings so finally, they had a schism in 1054.

So the 4 major Churches from the 11th century, are Assyrian Church (Nestorians), Oriental Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholicism.

https://www.amazon.com/First-Seven-Ecumenical-Councils-325-787/dp/0814656161

amazing book for understanding what shaped the early church and I would add written with no obvious bias. As informative as a history book but much more interesting to read.

 

[Newtheran]

 

[Dave L]

I believe the church (assembly) exists were two or more assemble in Jesus' name. In Acts they met in houses. The church (Body of Christ) is invisible but becomes visible whenever two or more meet. The Visible Institutional Churches are of human invention as are denominations. So the biblical church always exists even though the institutions entropy as they come and go.

 

[blackhead]

Its a hard study because there are different versions of history. Even my professor taught it differently.

The way my professor taught it. There was only one Church, the Catholic Church which started with apostle Peter, then Christianity was allowed in Rome by Constantine. The Churches in the East rejected the Pope and had a Schism 1054.

The way I learned it myself:
There were East and West Churches simultaneously, with different theological, political, and hierarchal influences. There were 2 minor schisms, with the Nestorians (Hypostatic Union), and the Chalcedon (Not even sure what happened). As time grew the tensions of East and West grew, the concept of a Pope didn't fly with the East neither did some teachings so finally, they had a schism in 1054.

So the 4 major Churches from the 11th century, are Assyrian Church (Nestorians), Oriental Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholicism.

The Church was just the Church in the beginning. It didn’t become Roman Catholic until the 4th century.

 

[~Anastasia~]

The Church was just the Church in the beginning. It didn’t become Roman Catholic until the 4th century.

Hello and welcome to CF.

Only the western part of the Church eventually became "Roman Catholic" ... officially separated since 1054 but they had been drifting for centuries. Rome was only one of the five ancient sees though. The other four have never been "Roman Catholic".

 

[blackhead]

Hello and welcome to CF.

Only the western part of the Church eventually became "Roman Catholic" ... officially separated since 1054 but they had been driving for centuries. Rome was only one of the five ancient sees though. The other four have never been "Roman Catholic".

What are the other 4 ancient sees?

 

[PaulCyp1]

If there two churches with different theological views, then one of them had to be a false church, teaching untruth. However, there is no historical record of two churches. Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into ALL truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church have fragmented into thousands of unauthorized manmade denominations, teaching thousands of conflicting, and therefore false beliefs, in just a few hundred years.

 

[The Times]

3000 Churches are recorded as being established in China by the Assyrian Church of the East. You can discern this is the hand of God the Holy Spirit when in the Acts of the Apostles Saint Paul converted 3000 Gentiles.

The works of God's hand in establishing the Apostolic Church in China, India, Mongolia and other Russian territories was through the largest Church in those times, which was twice as big as the Church in the West.

 

[The Times]

East of the Euphrates: Early Christianity in Asia
by T.V. Philip

Chapter 2: Christianity in Edessa -
Origins of Christianity in Edessa

Christianity as it grew in the Iranian region came to be known by different names -- Assyrian Church, Persian Church, East Syrian Church or the Church of the East

Voobus states that the origin of the Christian message in Mesopotamia must have been related to Aramaen Christianity in Palestine. "This appears quite natural when we consider the fact that in other eastern countries the Jewish community appears to be the channel through which the first seed of the Christian Kerygma was transplanted, even where Christian community was not particularly strong. (Ibid., p.8.) With regard to the Christian community in the mountains near Arbel (Erbil Iraq), Voobus says that the earliest Christian mission here was of Jewish Christian provenance and the earliest figures of primitive Christianity in this mountainous area, "however dimly they appear, were Christian Jews who held close to the areas where there were Jewish communities." Further Voobus points out that it was neither the Greek Old Testament which became scriptural authority for Hellenistic Christianity nor the Hebrew original text which was translated into Syriac but the scriptures of the Palestinian synagogue, namely, the ancient Palestinian Targumim which came to be used among the Jewish Christians. Also the tradition of scriptural interpretation in the ancient Syrian church bears the mark of Jewish interpretation. Moreover, the ancient Christian (Assyrian Script) art bears close resemblance to the Jewish art. All these point to the real nature of the Christian beginnings in the lands of Euphrates and Tigris (Men of Nineveh - The Assyrians).

Thus the pioneer work in the expansion of the Christian faith in the lands of the Euphrates and Tigris was carried out not by the Greek speaking Hellenistic Christians from Antioch but by Aramaic speaking (Assyrian) Christians who possessed the lingua franca of the contemporary Orient. In this, important Jewish communities in Mesopotamia, must have performed a significant function in the processes of initiating the Christian faith in the Syrian Orient.

Isaiah 19:23-25
In that day there will be a highway from Egypt to Assyria. The Assyrians will go to Egypt and the Egyptians to Assyria. The Egyptians and Assyrians will worship together. In that day Israel will be the third, along with Egypt and Assyria, a blessing on the earth. The Lord Almighty will bless them, saying, “Blessed be Egypt my people, Assyria my handiwork, and Israel my inheritance.”

Historically the founding Apostolic Church was operating through trading merchant routes along the Silk Road and was inspired by Jews and Assyrians who worked alongside each other to establish the faith in far countries. This is the Highway of God that God Established through the two olive trees that pour out the Golden Oil of Salvation and which has led us to today. We cannot throw out the baby with the bathwater and to ostracise the Assyrian people who are the work of God's hands throughout the Old and New Testament eras.

The 431AD council of Ephesus ostracisation of the Assyrian Church of the East was an Imperial edict by Emperor Theodosius II who conspired with the Church in the West to gatecrash the Highway and to remove God's handiwork by falsely labelling it Nestorian.

After 430AD removal of the Church of the East, we see all sorts of doctrines being established on Mariology, Iconographs amongst others. The only Church that God will use and has used is the Assyrian Church of the East, Whether people want to admit it or not, the emphasis here is what God has achieved and through whom what has become today the smallest of the players today. The Assyrian Church as described by many scholars who have investigated the history with archeological evidence in hand have identified that the Assyrian Church of the East was twice as large as the Church in the West and this by its own merits point to the originators of the Christian faith through the Gentile world at large.

Has God stopped using the Assyrian Church of the East today?

Hardly, because God's handiwork is his handiwork forever!

 

[PloverWing]

If there two churches with different theological views, then one of them had to be a false church, teaching untruth. However, there is no historical record of two churches. Jesus Christ founded ONE Church, said it was to remain ONE, and promised that ONE Church "The Holy Spirit will guide you into ALL truth", and "Whatsoever you bind upon Earth is bound in Heaven", and "He who hears you hears Me". Which is why that ONE Church remains ONE in belief, ONE in teaching, ONE in worship, ONE in biblical understanding throughout the world after 2,000 years, while those who have defected from His Church have fragmented into thousands of unauthorized manmade denominations, teaching thousands of conflicting, and therefore false beliefs, in just a few hundred years.

I think this is too harsh an assessment. Yes, it was sad that the Catholic church split off from Orthodoxy, and that it fragmented further during the Reformation. But the Catholic church is not a false church. God has continued to be present in the Catholic church post-Schism, and there have been many great theologians and other saints in the West in the last thousand years. God has been present in the Catholic church's Protestant descendants as well. I acknowledge that the fragmentation of the Western church was probably not God's original design for us, but God is capable of working through broken things.

 

[The Times]

3000 Churches are recorded as being established in China by the Assyrian Church of the East. You can discern this is the hand of God the Holy Spirit when in the Acts of the Apostles Saint Paul converted 3000 Gentiles.

The works of God's hand in establishing the Apostolic Church in China, India, Mongolia and other Russian territories was through the largest Church in those times, which was twice as big as the Church in the West.

Did you hear in the documentary above at 3:12 time marker, that the Chinese were claiming, as written on the Stele Stone, "That there was a Church in every single county of China, 3000 Churches stretched across China".

The Hand of God, the Apostolic Hand........aaaaaaaaa........where did I hear the Holy Spirit mention that before?

3,000 Converts Baptized In One Day!

"Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls." —Acts 2:41

Oh........Apostle Peter.

coincidence..........

N0!

When Jesus said the Men of Nineveh shall come to condemn this New Testament generation after the Cross he wasn't kidding. It seems history, God's Old Testament Word dispensed through Isaiah 19:23-25, Christ's New Testament Word through the mouth of Jesus in regards to the Men of Nineveh (Sign of Jonah) and Historical evidence owing to the scholarly research and findings paint a picture that the Hand of God is none other than the Assyrian Church of the East.

If the Christian world ever wanted to get back to the working formula of God that he ordains, then it is advisable that all Christian denominations and assemblies embrace his Hand and to make it inclusive within their fellowships.

If you come God will rebuild the Highway yet again as it was before the imperial powers hijacked it. This time around God will draw unto him in the final rally and through the Work of His Hand, the many Jews who have been gathered from all peoples of every nation.

 

[The Times]

I believe this is how it came down. When the Imperial powers through Theodosius II made an edict to ostracise and to isolate the Assyrian Church of the East in 431AD council of Ephesus then God's formula was broken and his Highway hijacked by the Imperial powers that be.

The result of the West isolating the Assyrian Church of the East resulted in what the following poster highlighted -

I acknowledge that the fragmentation of the Western church was probably not God's original design for us, but God is capable of working through broken things.

So to re-assemble the broken fragmented pieces, the formula needs to incorporate the Handy Work of God and by doing so, requires that all denominations need to include the Assyrian Church of the East with their fellowships and in this regard the fragmentation of denominations will be miraculously defragmented and be brought to unity through the One Highway of God. This is how the Christian world will know for sure that God's Handy Work remains God's Handy Work and cannot be circumvented by making any other denomination the central player to the rebuilding of the ecumenical Highway.

Rome must desist from thinking it is the player and it too needs to come with knees bowed before the ordained player and to refrain from using false labelling like their forefathers resorted to in ostracising the Assyrian church of the East. The Men of Nineveh will condemn this generation before God and will condemn it if the Christian world does not act and come and hold hands with them and through them the formula that God ordains will be manifest in a unity like no other in history and one that sees the Jews flock in numbers as the final 11th Hour workmen before Christ's 2nd Coming.

The Leaders of the Christian world have tried everything and that everything is Babylon Rome for 1588 years, but if they come back to the Handy Work then that is NOT Babylon and this means that they are in a position of knowledge and discernment so to make a difference and to act upon what is right and just.

 

[The Times]

One can see from 431AD when the Handy Work of God (Assyrian Church of the East) was ostracised and isolated, then the false doctrines started to find their way into the Western Church and then later resulting in Christ fragmenting them into thousands of pieces.

What did Jesus say -

The Men of Nineveh shall come to condemn this New Testament generation.
Most importantly Jesus said -

Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed." (Matthew 21:44)

The fragmenting into thousands of pieces of the Western Church is Christ's doing by the discerning of historical facts, that when the Imperial powers that be, ended up falling on the Stone by removing God's Handy Work then they could not remain as one, get it!

Those 431AD and 451AD years you highlighted are the red flags that provide the evidence for all, that God would not stand with Rome and will show them what results when they tried to circumvent his Handy Work.

God has a formula and all I can try to communicate to the leaders of all the fragmented western denominations that Rome will not lead you to unity, because facts reveal the opposite works resulting in fragmentation into pieces. Since Rome had 1588 years to make unity, they have failed to do so and this is highly indicative that they are not the player that God uses to create Unity.

 

[~Anastasia~]

What are the other 4 ancient sees?

Besides Rome, at the time of the Great Schism?

Constantinople, Antioch, Jerusalem, and Alexandria. Those four are still in communion (and more now besides since the Gospel has spread over the world) ... those are now known as Eastern Orthodox.

 

[Devin P]

Its a hard study because there are different versions of history. Even my professor taught it differently.

The way my professor taught it. There was only one Church, the Catholic Church which started with apostle Peter, then Christianity was allowed in Rome by Constantine. The Churches in the East rejected the Pope and had a Schism 1054.

The way I learned it myself:
There were East and West Churches simultaneously, with different theological, political, and hierarchal influences. There were 2 minor schisms, with the Nestorians (Hypostatic Union), and the Chalcedon (Not even sure what happened). As time grew the tensions of East and West grew, the concept of a Pope didn't fly with the East neither did some teachings so finally, they had a schism in 1054.

So the 4 major Churches from the 11th century, are Assyrian Church (Nestorians), Oriental Orthodox or Coptic Orthodox, Eastern Orthodox, and Catholicism.

The west (catholicism) slaughtered those that were in the east, because they didn't agree with and wouldn't submit to them. The eastern churches kept Torah. They kept passover as the apostles did all throughout the new testament. They kept the will of God, keeping the feasts as they did in the new testament, they ate clean foods and kept the sabbath, all of this is incredibly well documented by the "early church fathers" most pastors and priests have been taught to ignore. Whereas the west followed after more pagan traditions, that we still observe today.

Overall the west won out, because we still observe their traditions. We still worship the deities they merged into christianity in order to gain more influence and political power. We still practice yuletide and the feast of saturnalia honoring the sun "god" on the day of his "birth" which is sol invictus (christmas) and the celebration of his wife, semiramis, ishtar, ostara (easter) she goes by many names. And we even worship on the "venerable day of the sun" still (sunday), because the western churches slaughtered those keeping the biblical sabbath. We today, observe sunday as the sabbath, because of the brutal slaughter caused by the western churches and eventually catholicism, whereas the eastern churches were the ones being slaughtered, because they failed to submit, choosing instead to observe the biblical sabbath of saturday and the feast days, as opposed to the pagan festivals of those around them. Which, were only forced on people so the leaders could gain more wealth and power and influence from the many pagans that refused to become christians. They merged paganism with christianity so they could make it easier for pagans to enter in under their control.

The western churches (which became catholicism) even went as far as to change the 10 commandments. Read the biblical 10 commandments, and then read the catholic 10 commandments. They not only rearrange the order of the commandments, but they also got rid of the commandment concerning idolatry. There's so much more, but this is definitely a great start.

 

[prodromos]

One can see from 431AD when the Handy Work of God (Assyrian Church of the East) was ostracised and isolated, then the false doctrines started to find their way into the Western Church and then later resulting in Christ fragmenting them into thousands of pieces.

What did Jesus say -

The Men of Nineveh shall come to condemn this New Testament generation.
Most importantly Jesus said -

Anyone who falls on this stone will be broken to pieces; anyone on whom it falls will be crushed." (Matthew 21:44)

The fragmenting into thousands of pieces of the Western Church is Christ's doing by the discerning of historical facts, that when the Imperial powers that be, ended up falling on the Stone by removing God's Handy Work then they could not remain as one, get it!

Those 431AD and 451AD years you highlighted are the red flags that provide the evidence for all, that God would not stand with Rome and will show them what results when they tried to circumvent his Handy Work.

God has a formula and all I can try to communicate to the leaders of all the fragmented western denominations that Rome will not lead you to unity, because facts reveal the opposite works resulting in fragmentation into pieces. Since Rome had 1588 years to make unity, they have failed to do so and this is highly indicative that they are not the player that God uses to create Unity.

Can you please request the forum administrators add Assyrian Church of the East to the choices for religious affiliation so that you can stop identifying as Eastern Orthodox.