There's something about Mary.......

[Anglian]

It is a greek practice of veneration to a godess and having those in heaven to protect for certain things.

That's interesting, I though it was an Egyptian one too.

Mind you, what any of this has to do with the practice, endorsed by the same Church that endorsed the NT, of Marian veneration, only you know. We do not think the Blessed Theotokos a goddess - a point made to you and others here about a 1000 times in recent threads, so it is disappointing to see it being given another airing.


peace,

Anglian

 

[MamaZ]

Just as Isreal would worship other gods but still was able to give the apostolic churches the OT so to from the corrupt apostolic churches do we get the NT it's pretty simple. Protestant churches are Isreal the chosen people. Which is one reason why I am currently looking into the LDS. So I can possibly be apart of the one true Christian church.

Also you yourself has admited that Marian veneration is an outgrowth of tradition. It was not there from the beginning.

I am confused a little bit about protestant churchs being Isreal.. Would you expound on this more.

 

[Anglian]

Just as Isreal would worship other gods but still was able to give the apostolic churches the OT so to from the corrupt apostolic churches do we get the NT it's pretty simple. Protestant churches are Isreal the chosen people. Which is one reason why I am currently looking into the LDS. So I can possibly be apart of the one true Christian church.

Also you yourself has admited that Marian veneration is an outgrowth of tradition. It was not there from the beginning.

Since, as I have just told dear MamaZ, it has been made clear for the 1001th time that no one here regards the Blessed Virgin as a goddess, I have no idea what worshipping other Gods has to do with anything.

As for the LDS, I know nothing about it save it is a late, man made novelty; I guess they all get indistinguishable on the cafeteria menu after a while

peace,

Anglian

 

[Livindesert]

I am confused a little bit about protestant churchs being Isreal.. Would you expound on this more.

I have a theory that God would not leave his church without divine guidenace if the Bible truly is not to be used alone. Whoever this church is... is to me considered Isreal the choosen ones. I have recently found out that the LDS church had divine manesfestaions appear to it's prophet and was given the keys of the apostles. Hence they are the only church with 12 living apostles in it. Could it be Isreal? Maybe. All I know is the true church will follow Matthew and will believe Mary had relations after Jesus birth.

 

[MamaZ]

I have a theory that God would not leave his church without divine guidenace if the Bible truly is not to be used alone. Whoever this church is... is to me considered Isreal the choosen ones. I have recently found out that the LDS church had divine manesfestaions appear to it's prophet and was given the keys of the apostles. Hence they are the only church with 12 living apostles in it. Could it be Isreal? Maybe.

I grew up LDS.. This was before I came to know Christ. So I would have to say no..

 

[Livindesert]

I grew up LDS.. This was before I came to know Christ. So I would have to say no..

I grew up Evangelical but have found out from Anglian they cannot be the true church since they follow the Bible. Since the LDS has true apostolic authority given to them by Christ they have a good shot at being the true Isreal.

 

[prodromos]

Clearly, when Stephen and James the Greater were martyred, the Apostolic Catholic Orthodox Church had two perfect examples to introduce the idea of venerating the saints, praying to the deceased, whatever. The Church did not introduce the practice. It arose some 300 years later.

All you have provided as evidence that the practice did not begin until later is your say so. I don't consider that a particularly reliable source.

For a Church that believes in Christ's victory over death, and in the unity of Christ's body the Church, seeking the intercessions of those members of the body who have finished the race is completely natural. It is a completely natural extension of our love for one another to continue to pray for each other and to seek each other's prayers, unless you believe death still has some hold over us.

Intercessory prayer of the Saints is completely in line with our theology. To the best of my knowledge it has never been necessary for the Church to explain how it 'fits in' because of people questioning the practice. Moreover it is a practice which has consistently born great fruit throughout the Church's history right up until today (NB. no reversal of condition after the "until"). That God blesses this practice is abundantly evident to those of us who accept it, and all we can do is shake our heads in wonder at those who rail against it.

Those who have grown up with Christianity Lite (tm) and have not experienced the full cream version all seem intent on convincing us of the evils of cream, but those of us who have experienced the full cream version know there is simply no substitute.

Glory to God.

John

 

[prodromos]

I have recently found out that the LDS church had divine manesfestaions appear to it's prophet and was given the keys of the apostles.

Sounds very similar to Mohammed. What means did they use to test the spirit of these 'divine' manifestations?
That is one of the major problems of Islam which even they will admit. Islam teaches not to accept the revelations of spirits, and yet Mohammed readily accepted what he was given without putting it to any test.

John

 

[Musa80]

Those who have grown up with Christianity Lite (tm) and have not experienced the full cream version all seem intent on convincing us of the evils of cream, but those of us who have experienced the full cream version know there is simply no substitute.

 

[prodromos]

But now we have the cannon of scripture and its truth.. So therefore we need to take what the scriptures say as a light unto our Path.

1 Timothy 3:14-15
Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

Paul says the Church is the pillar and foundation of the truth.

John

 

[prodromos]

The scriptures speak for themselves.. Therefore when we read about Gods anger kindled against those who held a woman is high esteem and venerated her we can be assured that He would not change is Position on this.

Jeremiah 7 & 44 is not about veneration of a woman but worship of a false god (goddess in this case). Since we do not consider Mary to be a god (or goddess), nor do we burn incense to her nor pour out drink offerings to her nor bake bread offerings for her, I fail to see what Jeremiah has to do with the veneration of the mother of God.

John

 

[prodromos]

It is a greek practice of veneration to a godess and having those in heaven to protect for certain things.

It is a pagan practice to worship false gods. Those who venerate Mary and the Saints are not engaging in the worship of false gods.

John

 

[jckstraw72]

i wonder why its ok for all Christians to venerate Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, James and Jude, by recognizing that they received a special grace/revelation above and beyond what any other Christian has since then (by accepting only their writings as Scripture), but if we venerate Mary for receiving the unique role of bearing God in the flesh, which is above and beyond the role that any other Christian has or can play, we are attacked ...

 

[Livindesert]

Sounds very similar to Mohammed. What means did they use to test the spirit of these 'divine' manifestations?
That is one of the major problems of Islam which even they will admit. Islam teaches not to accept the revelations of spirits, and yet Mohammed readily accepted what he was given without putting it to any test.

John

He prayed to God to show him the true church since he could not tell which one was it himself. God then appeared and told him there was none at the moment on earth that had the true baptism. He was very shaken by his encounter. I have as much reason to believe his account as any other biblical person or saint as the manifestations are very similar to others found in the Bible and other apostolic churches.

So maybe I should try his approach to find out if the Bible is correct or not?

 

[laconicstudent]

He prayed to God to show him the true church since he could not tell which one was it himself. God then appeared and told him there was none at the moment on earth that had the true baptism. He was very shaken by his encounter.

That's nice I suppose.

I have as much reason to believe his account as any other biblical person or saint as the manifestations are very similar to others found in the Bible and other apostolic churches.

Except the theology he got from his encounters is strangely novel. No, we have absolutely no reason to believe him.

So maybe I should try his approach to find out if the Bible is correct or not?

That doesn't sound like a good idea.

 

[Musa80]

I think at this point LivinDesert is just yankin our chains. I find it hard to believe anyone could be so disassociated with reality as to think Islam and the LDS have as much authority as the Saints, all at the same time. He would either have to have zero understanding of Christianity or is just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

 

[Livindesert]

That's nice I suppose.



Except the theology he got from his encounters is strangely novel. No, we have absolutely no reason to believe him.



That doesn't sound like a good idea.

God told him that the theology that came from the apostolic churches was corrupted from almost the get go. I seem to find the same thing comparing the Gospels to other doctron like the Proto of James.

 

[Livindesert]

I think at this point LivinDesert is just yankin our chains. I find it hard to believe anyone could be so disassociated with reality as to think Islam and the LDS have as much authority as the Saints, all at the same time. He would either have to have zero understanding of Christianity or is just trying to get a rise out of everyone.

I am just looking at it with fresh eye being partial to no faith except that which God put in my heart.

I know 1. The LDS produce good fruit , 2. The Bible dose not mean what it says therefore interpetaion is needed 3. The only church with living apostles for that interpetation is the LDS church.

I am deadly serious Inter... If I am not to trust the Bible then I can trust no tradition steming from the apostolic churches.

 

[jckstraw72]

where do you get 2 and 3 from?!

 

[Musa80]

I am just looking at it with fresh eye being partial to no faith except that which God put in my heart.

I know 1. The LDS produce good fruit , 2. The Bible dose not mean what it says therefore interpetaion is needed 3. The only church with living apostles for that interpetation is the LDS church.

I am deadly serious Inter... If I am not to trust the Bible then I can trust no tradition steming from the apostolic churches.

I don't believe anyone has suggested that you cannot trust the Scriptures. What is and remains a fact though, is reading a biased English translation, completely divorced from the context and Tradition that formed it, is highly dangerous.