There's a reason my name isn't Emma

[Cassiopeia]

It's true. My mother in her infinite wisdom did not give me the same name as her mother. (no they aren't Mormon)

I will never be anything close to the great lady that Emma Smith was. Her faith and convictions astound me.

I'm so rebellious, I'd have never survived the early church. I admire her for her sacrifice and obedience. What an amazing example she was/is.

 

[drstevej]

I have great empathy for Emma as well. Indeed Mormon women were placed in a difficult position... Brigham's own words reflect the situation.

"Sisters, do you wish to make yourselves happy? Then what is your duty? It is for you to bear children,...are you tormenting yourselves by thinking that your husbands do not love you? I would not care whether they loved a particle or not; but I would cry out, like one of old, in the joy of my heart, 'I have got a man from the Lord!" 'Hallelujah! I am a mother--..." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 9, p.37)

"Now for my proposition; it is more particularly for my sisters, as it is frequently happening that women say they are unhappy. Men will say, 'My wife, though a most excellent woman, has not seen a happy day since I took my second wife;' 'No, not a happy day for a year,' says one; and another has not seen a happy day for five years. It is said that women are tied down and abused: that they are misused and have not the liberty they Ought to have; that many of them are wading through a perfect flood of tears, because of the conduct of some men, together with their own folly.

"I wish my own women to understand that what I am going to say is for them as well as others, and I want those who are here to tell their sisters, yes, all the women of this community, and then write it back to the States, and do as you please with it. I am going to give you from this time to the 6th day of October next, for reflection, that you may determine whether you wish to stay with your husbands or not, and then I am going to set every woman at liberty and say to them, Now go your way, my women with the rest, go your way. And my wives have got to do one of two things; either round up their shoulders to endure the afflictions of this world, and live their religion, or they may leave, for I will not have them about me. I will go into heaven alone, rather than have scratching and fighting around me. I will set all at liberty. 'What, first wife too?' Yes, I will liberate you all.


"Prepare yourselves for two weeks from to morrow; and I will tell you now, that if you will tarry with your husbands, after I have set you free, you must bow down to it, and submit yourselves to the celestial law. You may go where you please, after two weeks from to-morrow; but, remember, that I will not hear any more of this whining." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, 1856, pp. 55-57)

 

[Moodshadow]

Cassi, have you ever read her biography, Mormon Enigma? If you haven't, please do. It will give you an even greater appreciation for her and her character and her tribulations. In fact, it should be required reading for everyone investigating the LDS church - and certainly for every Latter-day Saint.

 

[AgapeBible]

So Emma Smith was Joseph Smith's wife? How could she stand him? I have always believed that mormonism is woman-hating and misogynist, they are cruel and oppressive to women, forcing women into the mold of perfect housekeeper and housewife, polygamy is evil and unChristian, in the New Testament is says men must have only one wife. It abusive towards women to have more than one wife at a time, because naturally the women will be jealous of each other and start to quarrel and fight. I'm surprised every woman in the colony didn't leave their perverted unfaithful husbands right then and there when Brigham Young made the announcement. Of course the women were miserable, with their husbands treating them that way.

Mormon men who abuse women and girls like this, forcing them to marry at a very young age and taking more than one wife are sinful perverts. They simply want to legitimize adultery. They're trying to come up with doctrine and a denomination which permits them to be promiscuous, claiming that "Oh, I'm married to these two wives, it isn't adultery."


I don't think Emma Smith is a great lady if she stayed with Joseph Smith and put up with his garbage. She should have left him and exposed to the world how evil and corrupt mormonism is.

 

[Moodshadow]

Mormonism is a very complicated religion, agape, and Joseph Smith was an exceedingly charming and charismatic man with whom Emma was very much in love. You'd have to be personally involved with the whole thing to even halfway understand it. From your perspective, I can see how you'd say the things you do. But please don't judge the people by what little you may know about it, okay? For the most part they are good and faithful and just try to live what they believe to be true.

 

[mirrorrorrim]

It's true. My mother in her infinite wisdom did not give me the same name as her mother. (no they aren't Mormon)

I will never be anything close to the great lady that Emma Smith was. Her faith and convictions astound me.

I'm so rebellious, I'd have never survived the early church. I admire her for her sacrifice and obedience. What an amazing example she was/is.

Thank you for creating this thread, Cassiopeia. I, too, think she suffered more hardships than many people, today or then, have. One of the hardest parts, I feel, was that she married Joseph the man, but also had to be the wife of Joseph the Prophet. When they first married, he hadn't published the Book of Mormon, he hadn't started the Church—none of what most of us remember him for. I'm sure he shared some of his visions and what he was working on with her, but she could have had no idea how far it would develop and require.

I often think that, for everyone, it must be the hardest for preachers to live their religion, since they don't really have a choice. If they don't do what they do, they'll be unemployed. That's an incredibly hard burden to be strapped with, and makes genuine righteous acts difficult.

But preachers choose their vocation.

Emma, as the wife of a prophet, was kind of in the same situation. She couldn't choose to accept or abandon the Church without also choosing to accept or abandon her husband. For a nineteenth-century woman, this would make her even more unemployed than the most destitute former preacher of today, and she would have to give up the love of her life. That she did as much as she did, and even looked for more ways to serve, including the founding of the Relief Society, is a testament to her incredible strength.

I feel she made mistakes, but we all do, and it's not our place to judge her.

 

[drstevej]

Mormonism should sing Praise to the Woman rather than Praise to the Man. Emma deserved better treatment.

In 1838, Oliver Cowdery, one of the Three Witnesses to the Book of Mormon, claimed that Joseph Smith had "A dirty, nasty, filthy affair" with a young woman named Fanny Alger. (see Mormonism - Shadow or Reality? pages 203-204) William McLellin claimed to have some explosive information on this matter. He asserted that Joseph Smith's wife, Emma, had told him about this affair. In his book, Mormon Polygamy: A History, 1986, page 6, Richard S. Van Wagoner wrote: "McLellin's 1872 letter described Alger's relationship with Joseph Smith. 'Again I told [your mother],' the former apostle wrote, that 'I heard that one night she missed Joseph and Fanny Alger. She went to the barn and saw him and Fanny in the barn together alone. She looked through a crack and saw the transaction!!!She told me this story too was verily true.' McLellin also detailed the Alger incident to a newspaper reporter for the 6 October 1875 Salt Lake Tribune." In 1852 Mormon Church leaders acknowledged that Joseph Smith practiced plural marriage, but they were silent concerning an incident in the barn.

source

Fanny Alger was 16 at the time

[SIZE=+1]Chauncey Webb recounts Emma’s later discovery of the relationship: “Emma was furious, and drove the girl, who was unable to conceal the consequences of her celestial relation with the prophet, out of her house”. Ann Eliza again recalls: “...it was felt that [Emma] certainly must have had some very good reason for her action. By degrees it became whispered about that Joseph’s love for his adopted daughter was by no means a paternal affection, and his wife, discovering the fact, at once took measures to place the girl beyond his reach...Since Emma refused decidedly to allow her to remain in her house...my mother offered to take her until she could be sent to her relatives...”[/SIZE]

source

 

[Cassiopeia]

So Emma Smith was Joseph Smith's wife? How could she stand him?

The purpose of this thread is to honor Emma Smith not to rail against Joseph. And you are confused. Mormons do not have multiple wives. Not since the late 1800's. We do not force our young girls to marry. You are thinking of polygamist groups in the news but they are NOT LDS.

Moodshadow, I haven't read that book, I've seen the movie Emma and I have a copy of a book that was written by one of my ex-husband's family members called, "Portrait of a Mormon Mother". It's all about polygamy and what they went through.

I admire them for their fortitude. For their willingness and their faith.

I wish I was more like that. The church isn't even a hard one to belong to in today's world. Not by a long shot when you look at what they endured.

Polygamy was just ONE challenge. Imagine having your house burned down around your ears, being driven out from town to town, state to state and making the trek from the east to Utah.

Emma and women like her were the most amazing women to me. I know their lives were hard but can you imagine? They must have had such faith.

You don't have to be a Mormon to long to have such faith as that.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Thank you for creating this thread, Cassiopeia. I, too, think she suffered more hardships than many people, today or then, have. One of the hardest parts, I feel, was that she married Joseph the man, but also had to be the wife of Joseph the Prophet. When they first married, he hadn't published the Book of Mormon, he hadn't started the Church—none of what most of us remember him for. I'm sure he shared some of his visions and what he was working on with her, but she could have had no idea how far it would develop and require.

I often think that, for everyone, it must be the hardest for preachers to live their religion, since they don't really have a choice. If they don't do what they do, they'll be unemployed. That's an incredibly hard burden to be strapped with, and makes genuine righteous acts difficult.

But preachers choose their vocation.

Emma, as the wife of a prophet, was kind of in the same situation. She couldn't choose to accept or abandon the Church without also choosing to accept or abandon her husband. For a nineteenth-century woman, this would make her even more unemployed than the most destitute former preacher of today, and she would have to give up the love of her life. That she did as much as she did, and even looked for more ways to serve, including the founding of the Relief Society, is a testament to her incredible strength.

I feel she made mistakes, but we all do, and it's not our place to judge her.

Thank you for your very well written and articulate post, Mirror.

I agree with you, she did marry the man. And she loved him and believed in him and the restored gospel.

 

[AgapeBible]

I hate it when I read old-fashion lectures on how women will "find pleasure" or that it is our "duty" as women to do nothing but bear children.

What about all the trashy sinful welfare moms hooked on drugs and alcohol that live either in the projects or in a rundown trailer park and have 4 kids or more and they've never been married, each one with a different man? Does this mean women who have illegitimate children out of wedlock are "good" because they have "done their duty?"

In the very beginnings of Mormonism it started polygamy, which was just an excuse to legitimize adultery, like the article on Joseph Smith and Fanny Algers says. After the 1800s the Mormons had to change the rules of polygamy because of how outraged the public was by it, it gave them a very bad reputation for being immoral, lustful and promiscuous, and cruel to the women and wives, for the sake of survival as a modern Christian sect they had to get rid of polygamy. Now there are all these crazy offshoot cults that live in the past, in the dark ages, and they practice polygamy. The government is not allowed to shut them down because they have the right to exist because of freedom of religion. I'm glad the press has exposed their dark, secretive ways, the way they are cruel and abusive to women, they encourage tyranny, lust, oppressive evil in their men and boys.

I know these polygamy cults are not part of LDS but I wonder if they are similar to original Mormonism when it started in the 19th century.

Of course the women were unhappy when they were treated like all they were good for was housekeeping, sex and making babies.

 

[Moodshadow]

I hate it when I read old-fashion lectures on how women will "find pleasure" or that it is our "duty" as women to do nothing but bear children.

What about all the trashy sinful welfare moms hooked on drugs and alcohol that live either in the projects or in a rundown trailer park and have 4 kids or more and they've never been married, each one with a different man? Does this mean women who have illegitimate children out of wedlock are "good" because they have "done their duty?"

In the very beginnings of Mormonism it started polygamy, which was just an excuse to legitimize adultery, like the article on Joseph Smith and Fanny Algers says. After the 1800s the Mormons had to change the rules of polygamy because of how outraged the public was by it, it gave them a very bad reputation for being immoral, lustful and promiscuous, and cruel to the women and wives, for the sake of survival as a modern Christian sect they had to get rid of polygamy. Now there are all these crazy offshoot cults that live in the past, in the dark ages, and they practice polygamy. The government is not allowed to shut them down because they have the right to exist because of freedom of religion. I'm glad the press has exposed their dark, secretive ways, the way they are cruel and abusive to women, they encourage tyranny, lust, oppressive evil in their men and boys.

I know these polygamy cults are not part of LDS but I wonder if they are similar to original Mormonism when it started in the 19th century.

Of course the women were unhappy when they were treated like all they were good for was housekeeping, sex and making babies.

There's some truth in here and some information based on truth and some based on hearsay, and some pure opinion. But it might be a seed for an interesting new thread.

 

[Cassiopeia]

There's some truth in here and some information based on truth and some based on hearsay, and some pure opinion. But it might be a seed for an interesting new thread.

Yes I was just going to ask that it be taken to a separate thread given this was meant to discuss Emma and her strengths and even perhaps talk about how as LDS women we cope with being active members and living in the modern world.

It's not an easy thing to do.

 

[Evergreen48]

Mormonism should sing Praise to the Woman rather than Praise to the Man. Emma deserved better treatment.


source

Fanny Alger was 16 at the time

source

drstevej: I see you are a Calvinist. So, as one who obviously follows the teachings of John Calvin, how would you feel if someone were constantly posting about the terrible thing that the man who constituted the doctrines of of your religion did? ( It is a well documented fact that John Calvin was not only a party to, but was mainly responsible for, the torturous murder of Michael Servetus.)