There was no "before" before the Big Bang

[dougangel]

Let me get this straight your accusing me of being non literal ?
When your old earth yourself. That is your saying the days aren't days.
And days and nights aren't there until Noah in spite of what the Genesis poem says.

If your read the 3rd day properly. That in no way can be there before the cosmic stuff on day 4
Well your saying your totally literal and you just aren't.
Frankly I don't agree with you interpretation. In fact I think its crazy and illogical
But lets just leave it there and agree to disagree.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

The earth was already flourishing with life prior to man. Life that has went extinct in several eras, after which all new forms of life arose. Then the last catastrophe struck.

In the oldest manuscripts there is a mark of a pause between the first and second verse. It may be as science tells us, that this globe existed millions of years ago; that it has been the habitation of numerous and varied races of animated beings; and that it has undergone many great destructions and creations before it was brought into its present state: none of these views are in the least discordant with the statement of the inspired historian, that “in beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

In twenty places in this chapter the verb “was” is used as the equivalent to “became”. The true meaning of the Hebrew word "hayah". "to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

The Earth "became" desolate and waste, (tohu wa bohu - used nowhere else together in the Bible except this verse and two other places, and always when used elsewhere point to a once flourishing condition that was then laid waste - Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23) and darkness overspread the Earth. At this time (man) did not exist prior, nor any of the current animals found with skeletons of modern man, except in a few rare cases as in one or two classes of reptiles and fish that survived this worldwide cataclysm, and the untold number before, told of before science had ever thought of such a thing as possible.

Comet, meteor? Who knows? It is quite accurate when interpreted properly. After unknown periods of time another act of creation occurred, this time with a notable exception, one worth bothering to describe in more detail, unlike any others that may have occurred previously. But then a new creation happened, the waters were separated from the waters (evaporation). "Let there be light...divided the light from the darkness". In Hebrew literally: " divided between the light and between darkness." Where all had previously been darkness due to the destruction, the addition of heat began separating the clouds. The events in the entire chapter are described as if one's viewpoint is from the earth.

It must be noted that the word 'ohr is not the same word used in verse 14 signifying "lights," or "luminaries," ma-'ohr; rather, it signifies "heat." the effect, which immediately followed is described in the name Day, which in Hebrew signifies "warmth."

So heat began penetrating into the depths after God acted, separating the clouds, letting light into the depths, the clouds had been so low as to contact the Earth itself. But heat allowed evaporation and the waters above were separated from the waters below and dry land appeared.

The next is just a twisted version by evolutionists. The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas. Then reptiles and crawling things and finally birds of the air. Then mammals and man. This is where evolution theory got their idea of the order from, the Bible told them long ago. They knew the truth and so modeled their theory upon this same basis. But again, the lack of transitory species makes their interpretation of the events in the Bible suspect. If evolution is indeed correct, where are the transitory species today? Did it only occur in the past? Instead all we see is "Kind after Kind" and different "breeds" or "strains" or "species" within those Kinds. Lines which are "never" crossed. Lines which never become so different we can't recognize they are all of the same Kind. All Felidae are Felidae. All Canidae are Canidae. All Caprinae are Caprinae.

We know of no other thing, even down to the genetic level, which thanks to technological advancements, is showing that tree is nothing but individual distinct bushes, with sideways variation. I.e., different "breeds, or strains, or species, or subspecies, etc.", within that kind - or bush. Never once indicating a transitional form to another "kind". Even after billions of generations and billions of mutations, all E. coli are still E. coli, and always will be. All Felidae, no matter how many times we breed them or even mutate them in the lab, will always be Felidae.

Every past form of life sprang from nowhere, lived for a time, different breeds of that kind prospering, then went extinct due to cataclysmic actions. In its place all new life once again sprang up, to again repeat the cycle. The Bible just affirms this, when it told you of the earth becoming desolate and waste, and the darkness that became upon it, encompassing it around. Hence the dinosaurs died out. It then described the "sixth" such event, when man himself was created.
This is the confusion between the two chapters of genesis. The animals created in the 5th creation were the dinosaurs - they went extinct. The animals created in the sixth creation along with man were mammals.

There have been 5 - count them, 5 major extinction events. Mankind and the animals with him were created "after" this 5th extinction event, the 6th creative act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Soon there will be a sixth destruction and a seventh and final creation in which all new forms of life will also arise - including an animal described as a lion that eats straw. 6 for the sixth creative act, 6 for mankind and 6 for the sixth destruction brought about by Satan. Only after this world is destroyed for the sixth time will the seventh and final creation begin again. The flood does not count in this destructive sequence because all of the animals that were alive before it - were brought through it. No new creative acts were required to repopulate the earth. The animals then alive were able to repopulate the earth, unlike the other times when all new life had to be created.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

But let's get back to those singularities and the application of the wrong theories to describe 99% of the universe.

http://www.christianforums.com/thre...ore-the-big-bang.7916279/page-5#post-68843198

 

[Aman777]

The earth was already flourishing with life prior to man. Life that has went extinct in several eras, after which all new forms of life arose. Then the last catastrophe struck.

In the oldest manuscripts there is a mark of a pause between the first and second verse. It may be as science tells us, that this globe existed millions of years ago; that it has been the habitation of numerous and varied races of animated beings; and that it has undergone many great destructions and creations before it was brought into its present state: none of these views are in the least discordant with the statement of the inspired historian, that “in beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”

In twenty places in this chapter the verb “was” is used as the equivalent to “became”. The true meaning of the Hebrew word "hayah". "to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

The Earth "became" desolate and waste, (tohu wa bohu - used nowhere else together in the Bible except this verse and two other places, and always when used elsewhere point to a once flourishing condition that was then laid waste - Gen 1:2; Isa. 34:11; Jer. 4:23) and darkness overspread the Earth. At this time (man) did not exist prior, nor any of the current animals found with skeletons of modern man, except in a few rare cases as in one or two classes of reptiles and fish that survived this worldwide cataclysm, and the untold number before, told of before science had ever thought of such a thing as possible.

The above is the discredited Gap Theory which cannot be supported Scripturally. In order to believe such a thing, one MUST "add to" what is actually written.

*** Comet, meteor? Who knows? It is quite accurate when interpreted properly. After unknown periods of time another act of creation occurred, this time with a notable exception, one worth bothering to describe in more detail, unlike any others that may have occurred previously. But then a new creation happened, the waters were separated from the waters (evaporation). "Let there be light...divided the light from the darkness". In Hebrew literally: " divided between the light and between darkness." Where all had previously been darkness due to the destruction, the addition of heat began separating the clouds. The events in the entire chapter are described as if one's viewpoint is from the earth.

The Light of the first Day is when Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God. Jesus speaks of the first Day just BEFORE His crucifixion:

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory (brightness) which I had with Thee before the world was.

The ONLY Day before the first world/firmament was, is the FIRST Day.

*** It must be noted that the word 'ohr is not the same word used in verse 14 signifying "lights," or "luminaries," ma-'ohr; rather, it signifies "heat." the effect, which immediately followed is described in the name Day, which in Hebrew signifies "warmth."

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Jesus is the Light/Fire of the first Day.

*** So heat began penetrating into the depths after God acted, separating the clouds, letting light into the depths, the clouds had been so low as to contact the Earth itself. But heat allowed evaporation and the waters above were separated from the waters below and dry land appeared.

UnScriptural unless you can show Chapter and Verse. The solid firmament surrounded Adam's Earth and protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 When water is above and below the firmament, the firmament is surrounded by water. If you know anything about water, you should know this.

*** The next is just a twisted version by evolutionists. The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas.

Ancient Jewish Theologians didn't seem to notice that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 They falsely assumed that God meant ONLY water creatures and birds.

***Then reptiles and crawling things and finally birds of the air.

False, since Jesus (Lord God) made creeping things from the land on the 6th Day. Gen 7:14 They are "His" kinds.

*** Then mammals and man.

Not quite since the beasts of the field were made the 6th Day Gen 2:19 AND man was made the THIRD Day before the plants, herbs and Trees or ANY other living creature. Gen 2:4-7 Man was "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2

*** This is where evolution theory got their idea of the order from, the Bible told them long ago. They knew the truth and so modeled their theory upon this same basis.

False, since Godless evolutionists have rejected the Flood story and falsely teach that man evolved from the common ancestor of Apes on Planet Earth. They, like ancient Hebrew Theologians didn't notice that Adam's world was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 Their Theory of Evolution is a made up satanic Lie.

*** But again, the lack of transitory species makes their interpretation of the events in the Bible suspect. If evolution is indeed correct, where are the transitory species today? Did it only occur in the past? Instead all we see is "Kind after Kind" and different "breeds" or "strains" or "species" within those Kinds. Lines which are "never" crossed. Lines which never become so different we can't recognize they are all of the same Kind. All Felidae are Felidae. All Canidae are Canidae. All Caprinae are Caprinae.

We know of no other thing, even down to the genetic level, which thanks to technological advancements, is showing that tree is nothing but individual distinct bushes, with sideways variation. I.e., different "breeds, or strains, or species, or subspecies, etc.", within that kind - or bush. Never once indicating a transitional form to another "kind". Even after billions of generations and billions of mutations, all E. coli are still E. coli, and always will be. All Felidae, no matter how many times we breed them or even mutate them in the lab, will always be Felidae.

Every past form of life sprang from nowhere, lived for a time, different breeds of that kind prospering, then went extinct due to cataclysmic actions. In its place all new life once again sprang up, to again repeat the cycle. The Bible just affirms this, when it told you of the earth becoming desolate and waste, and the darkness that became upon it, encompassing it around. Hence the dinosaurs died out. It then described the "sixth" such event, when man himself was created.
This is the confusion between the two chapters of genesis. The animals created in the 5th creation were the dinosaurs - they went extinct. The animals created in the sixth creation along with man were mammals.

Totally UnScriptural since Jesus made "creeping things from the Earth".

*** There have been 5 - count them, 5 major extinction events. Mankind and the animals with him were created "after" this 5th extinction event, the 6th creative act.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event

Soon there will be a sixth destruction and a seventh and final creation in which all new forms of life will also arise - including an animal described as a lion that eats straw. 6 for the sixth creative act, 6 for mankind and 6 for the sixth destruction brought about by Satan. Only after this world is destroyed for the sixth time will the seventh and final creation begin again. The flood does not count in this destructive sequence because all of the animals that were alive before it - were brought through it. No new creative acts were required to repopulate the earth. The animals then alive were able to repopulate the earth, unlike the other times when all new life had to be created.

Sorry, but you are totally confused because you CANNOT support your views Scripturally. I suggest the KJV of Scripture and much more study without "adding to" what is actually written in God's Holy Word. God Bless you

 

[Justatruthseeker]

The above is the discredited Gap Theory which cannot be supported Scripturally. In order to believe such a thing, one MUST "add to" what is actually written.

And one must ignore the Works to believe in a 6,000 year old earth. What you young earthers fail to realize is that it is MAN that is a recent creation - not the earth.

The Light of the first Day is when Jesus came into the physical world from within the invisible Spirit of God. Jesus speaks of the first Day just BEFORE His crucifixion:

Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou Me with thine own self with the glory (brightness) which I had with Thee before the world was.

The ONLY Day before the first world/firmament was, is the FIRST Day.

And again, you have to ignore the works. You have to dismiss all of science in your attempt to hold to your outdated beliefs. The same God penned both the Word and the Works - and if you can't reconcile one with the other than your interpretation is wrong.

Oh we agree Jesus was the first and only creative act of God - his only-begotten son - through whom and by whom all else was created, including all the other angels and the universe itself. Completed in verse one - which everyone ignores is in the past tense - showing completeness.

And stop ignoring what Hayah means.

"to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

It DOES NOT mean its present condition, but always means the condition something became. It "was" not formless and void, but "became" desolate and waste. Stop ignoring the only two other places in the Bible where tohu wa bohu are used together - and in both places it points to a once flourishing condition laid desolate and waste.

Heb 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.
Jesus is the Light/Fire of the first Day.

Quit accusing Jesus of being God. How many times must he defend himself against those false accusations???

http://biblehub.com/john/5-18.htm

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God. 19Therefore Jesus answered and was saying to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, unless it is something He sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in like manner."

http://biblehub.com/john/10-33.htm

"32Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God." 34Jesus answered them, "Has it not been written in your Law, 'I SAID, YOU ARE GODS '? 35"If he called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken), 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '? 36do you say of Him, whom the Father sanctified and sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming,' because I said, 'I am the Son of God '?"

Why do you keep accusing him of blasphemy? Are you trying to kill him again for some reason?

UnScriptural unless you can show Chapter and Verse. The solid firmament surrounded Adam's Earth and protected it from the water into which it was placed. Gen 1:6-8 When water is above and below the firmament, the firmament is surrounded by water. If you know anything about water, you should know this.

We've sent craft to the moon - not one of them passed through a firmament of water. So clearly your interpretation is in error. But we do know evaporation occurs and sends moisture up onto the air which form the clouds and eventually falls back to earth as rain.

Ancient Jewish Theologians didn't seem to notice that "every living creature that moveth" was created and brought forth from the water on the 5th Day. Gen 1:21 They falsely assumed that God meant ONLY water creatures and birds.

False, since Jesus (Lord God) made creeping things from the land on the 6th Day. Gen 7:14 They are "His" kinds.

That's what I aid, you didn't read it?


*** The next is just a twisted version by evolutionists. The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas.
***Then reptiles and crawling things and finally birds of the air.

*** Then mammals and man.

Excuse me for placing birds in the wrong order. Does this make you feel better?

The creatures in the waters formed first, in Hebrew discourses this includes all microbial and plant life in the seas.
***Then birds of the air, reptiles and crawling things.

Not quite since the beasts of the field were made the 6th Day Gen 2:19 AND man was made the THIRD Day before the plants, herbs and Trees or ANY other living creature. Gen 2:4-7 Man was "created in God's Image" or born again Spiritually AFTER Cain killed Abel. Gen 5:1-2

Now who's ignoring the Bible to attempt to justify the two different versions?

"25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."

Because you ignore that the animals made before man were the dinosaurs and they went extinct. The mammals were created after man. This is why all life today is not the same as that which went extinct. Birds are not the same type of birds as happened in the prior creation. Fish are not the same type of fish. Plants are not the same either. All life created when man was created is different from the life that was created before man. It went extinct.

"7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.... 18Then the LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone; I will make him a helper suitable for him." 19Out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field and every bird of the sky, and brought them to the man to see what he would call them; and whatever the man called a living creature, that was its name."

Only you need to call the Bible a liar and say the birds of the air were created on the third day - and then when it tells you man was created after animals try to justify the second chapter by ignoring the first chapter and its order. All because you wont accept there have been 6 creations - declaring God's glory. This is also why the Bible describes God creating the earth like an artist - in progressive stages.

False, since Godless evolutionists have rejected the Flood story and falsely teach that man evolved from the common ancestor of Apes on Planet Earth. They, like ancient Hebrew Theologians didn't notice that Adam's world was totally destroyed in the Flood. ll Peter 3:6 Their Theory of Evolution is a made up satanic Lie.

Sure evolution is a lie, but the order of life being created they got from the Bible.

Totally UnScriptural since Jesus made "creeping things from the Earth".

He made all land animals from the dust of the earth, Made them into a soul just like you. The only difference is God gave us knowledge. Which is why the word Nephesh is used for both man and animals.

Sorry, but you are totally confused because you CANNOT support your views Scripturally. I suggest the KJV of Scripture and much more study without "adding to" what is actually written in God's Holy Word. God Bless you

I'd suggest you accept that both the Works and the Word were created by God and stop pretending the Works aren't old. ONLY MAN and the animals with him are a young creation.

Only you need to pretend all of science is wrong - because you wont accept the true meaning of the second word in the second verse of the Bible.

"to fall out, come to pass, become, be"

It can not have became desolate and waste if it did not exist prior. But then that's also why you mst ignore the verb usage in the first verse which is in the past tense - denoting completeness. And also why you must ignore the pause mark after the first verse - because you were to pause and marvel at His creation. To contemplate the wonder of it before being told of its destruction.

The flood was not a creative act - all the animals that existed before it were brought through it. No new life was created - unlike after the other 5 destructions. This is why no life that exists with man can be found with or prior to the dinosaurs except the few rare cases in which they survived the cataclysms.

But keep on ignoring the Works - as if God didn't create them and that it's all a lie. It's simply confusion on your part for ignoring hayah.

Soon there will be a sixth destruction and a seventh and final creation.

 

[lesliedellow]

Oh we agree Jesus was the first and only creative act of God

We have an Arian amongst us I see.

Now how does it go? Ah yes:

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, NOT MADE,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made."

 

[justlookinla]

We have an Arian amongst us I see.

Now how does it go? Ah yes:

"We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, NOT MADE,
of one Being with the Father;
through him all things were made."

Constantine won, Arius lost.