There must be a twisting of Scripture to deceive God's people.

maco said:

Mary bought the spices after the sabbath passed, prepared them, and then rested on the Sabbath that was drawing near.

The sabbath that passed was Thursday and refers to the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Sabbath that drew near was the seventh day Sabbath. That means there was a sabbath, a regular day of work, and then a Sabbath. It's simple if you use Lev.23 for what it was intended for, a road map to God's plan.

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That isn't found in the account in any Gospel.

maco said:

Very good, you're almost there...

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How? you have some high Sabbath on Wednesday prior to the Passover on Friday/Saturday depending on how the days are numbered. The Gospels aren't based on the Gregorian calendar.

maco said:

Oh my! You just took a couple of steps backwards.

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Prove it please.

There is Passover, unleavened bread, and first fruits all in a a grouping very close together

Any argument that Christians must keep any part of the Mosaic Law is just dishonest about the structure and implementation of the Old Testament law, and indicates a severe ignorance about its applications. There are 613 Commandments, all of which are equally important, and all of them must be kept. Or none of them. There is NO distinction in the Mosaic Law between "ritualistic" and "moral" law. Sabbattarian Christians conjure up that self-serving distinction purely out of convenience. They have picked a few of the 613 Commandments seemingly at random, based on the ones that happen to tickle their fancy. That is willfully dishonest to the intent of the Law.

If you were to approach an rabbinical expert on the Mosaic Law, and announce self-righteously that you are "keeping the Ten Commandments," they would look on you as though you are mentally deranged. Under Mosaic Law, there is no such a thing as the "Ten Commandments." What we know as the "Decalogue" is subsumed into the overall structure of the 613 Commandments. Judaism does not regard the "ten commandments" as anything particularly unique or special in relationship to the other 603 Commandments. They are merely ten among many other laws of equal importance.

Out of the mandatory 613 Mosaic laws, Sabbattarians pick and choose a tiny handful that happily coincide with their overall goals of preening self-righteousness over other Christians. They flatter themselves all too easily. If you understand the way the Mosaic law works, all they have merely done is make themselves looks bizarre and foolish. The Apostles repeatedly denounced such behavior as "Judaizing." The Apostles were experts on the Mosaic Law. Sabbattarians are not.

For Christians, Colossians 2:16-17 means what it says.

For Christians, the AD 50 Council of Jerusalem emphatically means what it says: Gentile Christians shall not be bound by the Mosaic law.

Any argument that the Sabbath is a memorial of Creation indicates an profound ignorance of the original Hebrew that both Genesis and Exodus were written in. The writer of the book of Genesis took great pains to make it clear that the Sabbath did not begin at the 7th day of Creation. Hebrew scholars have made that point absolutely clear. The Sabbath commandment was not given to the Children of Israel until at least a month after their delivery from Egyptian slavery. Meanwhile, they would have unintentionally broken the Sabbath at least four times during their crossing of the Sinai. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that anyone kept the Sabbath prior to Sinai. NONE!

Christians began worshiping on Sunday no later than 1 week after the Resurrection. Christ then Ascended on a Sunday. The Day of Pentecost, the Church's Birthday was on a Sunday. It would have been BIZARRE if the early Christians had continued to keep the Sabbath, given the impact those three events clearly would have had on them. Why were all the early Christians in one place on a Sunday when the Day of Pentecost took place? Because they had started doing so in honor of the Resurrection. By the Day of Pentecost, it was an entrenched Christian custom already.

The SDA argument that Constantine unilaterally destroyed the Sabbath has been forcibly disproven by their own Sabbath Expert, Samuelle Bachiochi.

The argument for keeping just one pet commandment out of the 613 simply denigrates the obvious meaning of the crucifixion, the Resurrection, the Ascension and the Day of Pentecost. It is a Salvation by Works theory of "Partial Atonement." It is an argument that one must keep the entirety of the Mosaic Law, because Christ's sacrifice is not enough. Fortunately for Christians, even Christians who keep the Sabbath aren't even CLOSE to meeting that burden.

If you want to keep the Sabbath and the rest of the laws and have an ounce of integrity, you must go through the full-scale conversion process to Judaism that is mandatory. It is extremely highly-unlikely any Sabbattarian Christian would do that. For an unconverted Gentile to keep the Sabbath is such a serious offense against God and a defilement against the Sabbath, an observant Jew is required the impose the Death Penalty!.

Christians who keep the Sabbath are as bizarre as if they suddenly developed a yen to sacrifice some animals in their backyard temple. Or kept the Feast of the New Moons.

maco said:

The high sabbath was on Thursday, which was the day after Passover.

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Not on the New Moon calendar.

maco said:

Here are the events that happened during that week.

Passover (Wed) - first day of Unleavened Bread (Thurs) - normal workday (Fri) - seventh-day Sabbath (Sat).

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Its impossible for the 14th of any month with the New Moon calendar to be a Wednesday.

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they are nowhere nears keeping the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the real deal Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament. They have no idea of how to keep the Sabbath.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest Sabbath keepers have searched out and found the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above. He did.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the Adventist culture that had developed around the 7th Day Sabbath over 150 years, honest Sabbatarians have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Keeping their sanitized process pasteurized Velveeta cheese-version of the 7th Day Sabbath just does not cut it anymore.

Furthermore, they are beginning to see the necessity of rejecting St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim "illegitimately" introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. They are presently eliminating the Pauline Epistles from their Biblical canon for precisely this reason. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their cruel system of cult bondage. It is obvious they must discredit St. Paul if they are going to keep all of the Jewish Laws, which the honest among them now do teach and attempt to practice.

But that has nothing to do with Christianity. Sabbatarians have simply started their own religion that is neither Christianity nor Judaism. It is actually a revival of the old Ebionate cult which has long been viewed as a destructive heresy by Christianity. It is in a spiritual No Man's Land. They worship the Jewish Sabbath rather than the Resurrected Son of God.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

LarryP2 said:

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments of Judaism. Sabbath Keeping has never been a part of genuine Christianity. Only quasi-Christian cults emphasize it.

Under Jewish law, circumcision is required before ANY of the Mosaic Laws can be kept. The Council of Jerusalem in AD 50 decided once and for all that the Gentile Christians would not be required to follow the Mosaic Law. Their duties were described in the Book of Acts and are parallel to the Noahide Law.

Seventh Day Adventism has a yearly stampede of 300,000 fleeing their cruel system of cult bondage. EVERY single significant doctrine of SDA has been soundly debunked by their own theologians! Not one of them has held up under scrutiny of their own Bible scholars! It is a cultish house of cards.

Sabbatarians THINK they are keeping the Sabbath and brag loudly about their superiority over other Christians because of it, but in truth they are nowhere nears keeping the Sabbath. What they "keep" is a convenient, Americanized, sanitized, dumbed down, processed cheese-version of the Sabbath that bears absolutely NO resemblance to the real deal Sabbath as kept by Jesus or anyone in the Old Testament. They have no idea of how to keep the Sabbath.

Don't flatter yourself for imagining you have accomplished something you haven't. The only truly honest Sabbath Keepers are the ones who recently began keeping the monthly, yearly and New Moons Sabbaths, all the Jewish feast days and some of them have built the necessary backyard temples to commence animal sacrifices. The honest Sabbath keepers have searched out and found the Rabbis necessary to follow the Levitical food laws. If you are going to follow Jesus's example of Sabbath keeping, then you also have to follow all the other Mosaic Laws outlined above. He did.

In the aftermath of SDA's Sabbath Scholar Dr. Samuelle Bachiochi's demolition of the Adventist culture that had developed around the 7th Day Sabbath over 150 years, honest Sabbatarians have followed his lead and are undertaking the necessary steps to follow ALL of the Jewish laws that are required. Keeping their sanitized process pasteurized Velveeta cheese-version of the 7th Day Sabbath just does not cut it anymore.

Furthermore, they are beginning to see the necessity of rejecting St. Paul as a "False Prophet" and someone who they claim "illegitimately" introduced Greek and Roman thought into Christianity. They are presently eliminating the Pauline Epistles from their Biblical canon for precisely this reason. Notice how advocates of the Sabbatarian cult NEVER cite St. Paul for support for their cruel system of cult bondage. It is obvious they must discredit St. Paul if they are going to keep all of the Jewish Laws, which the honest among them now do teach and attempt to practice.

But that has nothing to do with Christianity. Sabbatarians have simply started their own religion that is neither Christianity nor Judaism. It is actually a revival of the old Ebionate cult which has long been viewed as a destructive heresy by Christianity. It is in a spiritual No Man's Land. They worship the Jewish Sabbath rather than the Resurrected Son of God.

Christianity has NEVER required Sabbath keeping.

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Its news to me that they're working on eliminating Paul's works for the Bible. Do they intend to publish one with out them?

maco said:

The high sabbath was on Thursday, which was the day after Passover.

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On which calendar? The 14th can't ever be a Wednesday in the New Moon calendar.

maco said:

You're wrong.

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Prove it! The weekly Sabbath is always the 7th day after the New Moon in their calendar. If Saturday is the 7th day it has to be either the 14th or the 15th. It depends if one assigns the day of the new moon a number.

LarryP2 said:

First Century Christianity NEVER kept the Sabbath. NEVER. Not once do the Apostles tell the Christians they must keep the Sabbath, or any of the other 613 Commandments .

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There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

yet there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

As for NT authors affirming the OT commandments "of Moses" here is a huge hint -- Mark 7:6-13, Eph 6:1-2, James 2, Romans 7, Romans 13...

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

from scratch said:

Its news to me that they're working on eliminating Paul's works for the Bible.

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Me too -- I have to admit LP2 is getting downright silly on some of those wild accusation rants.

I just let that part go into the silly bucket usually.

But as for the actual TEN Commandments - well even the following pro-Sunday Sources affirm them for NT saints.

BobRyan said:

There are NO "weekday1 after weekday 1" worship services in the entire NT -- not one!

Not ONCE do NT Authors ever command the NT saints to keep week-day-1 holy.

yet there are MANY Sabbath after Sabbath worship services attended by NT Christian saints. Acts 13, Acts 17, Acts 18 -- and the Apostolic church of Acts 15 actually "relied on this fact" to resolve their church dispute (see Acts 15).

As for NT authors affirming the OT commandments "of Moses" here is a huge hint -- Mark 7:6-13, Eph 6:1-2, James 2, Romans 7, Romans 13...

What is more - even the following Sunday sources themselves argue for the continued binding authority of the Sabbath Commandment for all Christians to this very day. (So then just stating the obvious here).

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So do I. How bout them cookies? That certain doesn't mean I affirm them as applicable to the Christian under the New Covenant.

BobRyan said:

Me too -- I have to admit LP2 is getting downright silly on some of those wild accusation rants.

I just let that part go into the silly bucket usually.

But as for the actual TEN Commandments - well even the following pro-Sunday Sources affirm them for NT saints.

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It doesn't matter how often you repeat this. It simply isn't true as you intend. Not one of them promotes or practices some form of keeping the 7th day Sabbath.

The point I was trying to make is that NO modern Sabbatarians are actually keeping the Sabbath. They THINK they are. They CLAIM they are. They PRETEND they are.

But they are not. They are not even CLOSE to keeping it. They aren't even in the same ballpark. And at the same time, their cultish Ebionite Heresy drives them to imagine themselves superior to other Christians who worship the Resurrected Christ instead of the Jewish Day of Worship.

As soon as I achieve 50 posts, it will allow me to provide links to demonstrate Sabbatarians are logically eliminating St. Paul from the Canon, just like the earlier cultish Ebionite heresy rejected the Epistles.