There is no such thing as "the rapture"

[NJBeliever]

Psalm 83

verse 1 Fulfilled in God Speaking forth His New Creation in the New Testament.

verse 2 Enemies of God... those who Jesus said were the enemies of the Gospel (did God change enemies?)

Again, you ignore the very specific peoples being discussed in this chapter as well as the fact that the Psalmist is prophesying their literal death, not their conversion.

 

[NJBeliever]

Isaih 19:16-23 How is it NOT fulfilled in Christs mission, death, resurrection and coming into His own beginning 2000 years ago?

18In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
19In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
20And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.



Where are the 5 cities that speak the language of Canaan? Where is the altar in Egypt? Again, we are just very divergent in our views on how to read the Bible.

 

[interpreter]

No, it's not second guessing, it's from what most post here, most don't believe in a rapture, they say so.
They don't believe the scriptures tell of being caught up to Heaven even though there are many that do tell just that, so it's logical that they are happy with their lives in the world.

In the Lord's prayer, we pray
"Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

The coming glorious kingdom of God is on Earth. Those Christians who remain to the end will rule with Jesus and the martyrs for 1000 years in a glorious reign of the Church.
As in the days of Noah the bad guys will be taken away. Yes, I'm happy to be among those who are left.

 

[get it right]

In the Lord's prayer, we pray
"Your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven."

The coming glorious kingdom of God is on Earth. Those Christians who remain to the end will rule with Jesus and the martyrs for 1000 years in a glorious reign of the Church.
As in the days of Noah the bad guys will be taken away. Yes, I'm happy to be among those who are left.

God's Kingdom comes after the millinial reign when the new Jerusalem and the new earth comes down from Heaven.

Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.
5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful.
6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

 

[get it right]

resolved

 

[Son of Israel]

Again, you ignore the very specific peoples being discussed in this chapter as well as the fact that the Psalmist is prophesying their literal death, not their conversion.

That is where you are wrong dear friend. It is ALL about their conversion and repentance. Death and resurrection. What could you possibly otherwise think it is all about??

 

[Son of Israel]

18In that day shall five cities in the land of Egypt speak the language of Canaan, and swear to the LORD of hosts; one shall be called, The city of destruction.
19In that day shall there be an altar to the LORD in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the LORD.
20And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the LORD of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.



Where are the 5 cities that speak the language of Canaan? Where is the altar in Egypt? Again, we are just very divergent in our views on how to read the Bible.

Exactly. Where are those cities? 5 cities... what does that mean? The language of Canaan, what does that mean? What/who is Egypt? Is it the real estate made up of dirt that sphinxes and pyramids sit on? Of course not. One must understand the Language of God and the Revealing of His Spirit in these Spirtual meanings. You will get quite theologically crossed up if you attempt to force it into some kind of literal futuristic thing confined to a piece of real estate in some obscure future. Such a worthless concept to spend thought or energy upon! That kind of theology only arises because one hasn't received eyes to see. Jesus said, "destroy this temple in three days and I'll raise it up". The Pharisees ran the words around and came back at Him as though Jesus said He was going to destroy the temple. Don't get caught in that 'straining at a gnat' carnal mentality dear friend, just because you don't understand what He MEANS.
The Lord presents His salvation in a manner that those who think they can see it are blinded by their forcing of a physical application of Spiritually intended scripture. Because they are blinded, they can't see it any other way. Jesus always spoke in parables. Christ is the author of the old testament as well as the new. The Pharisees thought that everything concerning the Kingdom of God was supposed to happen to their plot of real estate and their city and that it would be established before their eyes on this "planet". They were wrong, dead wrong. Because they were blind to what Jesus was MEANING. And yet, look how many people today who call themselves Christians STILL believe that! Jesus quite clearly said that the Kingdom of God does not come in any observable manner on this planet. Why do people still refute Him today? It is incredible to me.
I am here to tell you while it is TODAY, that of a CERTAINTY, with no exception... That this IS FULFILLED to all those in Christ and has been continually fulfilled to His Elect for the last 2000 years... for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

Have you not cried unto the Lord? Have you not been oppressed? Has He not sent you a saviour? A great one in fact? And have you not been delievered?
Who do you think that Almighty God is referring to? Do you not think that those unto whom He has ordained to receive this would know it was fulfilled unto them?
Have you not this witness dear NJBELIEVER?
Please, think long and hard upon these things dear friend.
Your brother in Love,
Son of Israel

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

This is the signature of one of our forum moderators.

And in case I don't get to come back here, this is what he reported to the moderators and administrators here from this thread:

Get it right posted to ava maria:
"You are in a minority that don't believe the bible."

And this is what I actually said:

"You are in a minority that dosn't seem to believe that the bible say's that, IMO anyway."

You can go back a page or two or three and see for yourself, my post has been deleted, but you can see what I said from ava marias reply.

some in CF are led by demons, posters and staffers, no doubt about it.

Beware the yeast of the Mod Squad ehehe........

YouTube - The Mod Squad TV Show Theme Opening Season One

 

[Son of Israel]

i cannot fully speak about amillennialism because i have done very little study on it... the only thing I do know is that if that teaching were taught by Christ, the early church would of taught it as well, but they didn't teach amillennialism... they were chiliasts.

I don't really know about amillennialism either other than it is a theological term used to label those like Jesus who taught that the Kingdom of God is at hand.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I don't really know about amillennialism either other than it is a theological term used to label those like Jesus who taught that the Kingdom of God is at hand.

Such as Luke 21:31[which I myself view a fulfilled ehehe]

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

 

[trialbyfire]

This is the signature of one of our forum moderators.

And in case I don't get to come back here, this is what he reported to the moderators and administrators here from this thread:

Get it right posted to ava maria:
"You are in a minority that don't believe the bible."

And this is what I actually said:

"You are in a minority that dosn't seem to believe that the bible say's that, IMO anyway."

You can go back a page or two or three and see for yourself, my post has been deleted, but you can see what I said from ava marias reply.

some in CF are led by demons, posters and staffers, no doubt about it.

Amen! It's getting worse and worse. I heard on a radio broadcast that luciferians and others who worship satan are infiltrating Christian congregations in an effort to destroy our power. They actually pray to satan for power as they wreak havoc. They use objects and rites to target individuals demonically.

I have never seen so many people on a Christian forum who are so plainly and openly working against Christ and Christians. Real Christians are getting booted off right and left while the atheists and wiccans and God-haters remain.

The only thing that can be done is take authority and stand against it. Christians have the God-given power to put evil to flight. We just aren't doing it. It's time to start.

 

[Son of Israel]

Such as Luke 21:31[which I myself view a fulfilled ehehe]

Reve 1:3 Happy the one reading and the ones hearing the Words of the Prophecy and keepings in it having been Written for the Time NIGH/egguV <1451>. [Reve 22:6,10]

Luke 21:31 "Thus also ye whenever ye may be seeing these these becoming, ye are knowing that NIGH/egguV <1451> is the Kingdom of the God."

Yes LittleLamb! And also, Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. (Matt 5:17)

 

[NJBeliever]

Exactly. Where are those cities? 5 cities... what does that mean? The language of Canaan, what does that mean? What/who is Egypt? Is it the real estate made up of dirt that sphinxes and pyramids sit on? Of course not. One must understand the Language of God and the Revealing of His Spirit in these Spirtual meanings. You will get quite theologically crossed up if you attempt to force it into some kind of literal futuristic thing confined to a piece of real estate in some obscure future. Such a worthless concept to spend thought or energy upon! That kind of theology only arises because one hasn't received eyes to see. Jesus said, "destroy this temple in three days and I'll raise it up". The Pharisees ran the words around and came back at Him as though Jesus said He was going to destroy the temple. Don't get caught in that 'straining at a gnat' carnal mentality dear friend, just because you don't understand what He MEANS.
The Lord presents His salvation in a manner that those who think they can see it are blinded by their forcing of a physical application of Spiritually intended scripture. Because they are blinded, they can't see it any other way. Jesus always spoke in parables. Christ is the author of the old testament as well as the new. The Pharisees thought that everything concerning the Kingdom of God was supposed to happen to their plot of real estate and their city and that it would be established before their eyes on this "planet". They were wrong, dead wrong. Because they were blind to what Jesus was MEANING. And yet, look how many people today who call themselves Christians STILL believe that! Jesus quite clearly said that the Kingdom of God does not come in any observable manner on this planet. Why do people still refute Him today? It is incredible to me.
I am here to tell you while it is TODAY, that of a CERTAINTY, with no exception... That this IS FULFILLED to all those in Christ and has been continually fulfilled to His Elect for the last 2000 years... for they shall cry unto the LORD because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.

Have you not cried unto the Lord? Have you not been oppressed? Has He not sent you a saviour? A great one in fact? And have you not been delievered?
Who do you think that Almighty God is referring to? Do you not think that those unto whom He has ordained to receive this would know it was fulfilled unto them?
Have you not this witness dear NJBELIEVER?
Please, think long and hard upon these things dear friend.
Your brother in Love,
Son of Israel

Again, I will just withdraw from the debate because you and I have completely different ways of reading the Bible. You are reading it as allegorical. I am reading it as literal, especially prophecy. So given that our approaches are so different, searching the scriptures is not going to be fruitful.

I would like to know though: what prophecies do you see as literal, if any?

 

[Son of Israel]

Again, you ignore the very specific peoples being discussed in this chapter as well as the fact that the Psalmist is prophesying their literal death, not their conversion.

I am of that very specific people being discussed in that chapter as well as every other O.T. chapter that prophecies of Israel's Salvation that God has Promised. All Christians are. Do you think God has a separate plan of salvation for one group of people from another?? I will not be robbed of my heritage sir. For all that is spoken of in the law and the prophets IS fulfilled when Christ CAME AS PROMISED.
My baptism is more of a literal death than any other form of "death" could ever be. Because now, the second death (bodily physical death) has no power over me. God isn't concerned about "physical" death, it means nothing to Him. He is Lord over death. Our baptism satisfies the sentence of death over us we've inherited from Adam. Does not Paul give us plenty of scripture specifically telling us that? It is that MEANS by which we can cry ABBA FATHER.
The price has been paid, the death in Christ has released us from death. This again, is a spiritually discerned Truth.
It is of the carnal mind, to dis-own one's self from the Blessing and the Birthright. But if a man has the mind of Christ, they will know these truths.
I pray for you my dear brother.
Son of Israel

 

[B1inHim]

I am of that very specific people being discussed in that chapter as well as every other O.T. chapter that prophecies of Israel's Salvation that God has Promised. All Christians are. Do you think God has a separate plan of salvation for one group of people from another?? I will not be robbed of my heritage sir. For all that is spoken of in the law and the prophets IS fulfilled when Christ CAME AS PROMISED.
My baptism is more of a literal death than any other form of "death" could ever be. Because now, the second death (bodily physical death) has no power over me. God isn't concerned about "physical" death, it means nothing to Him. He is Lord over death. Our baptism satisfies the sentence of death over us we've inherited from Adam. Does not Paul give us plenty of scripture specifically telling us that? It is that MEANS by which we can cry ABBA FATHER.
The price has been paid, the death in Christ has released us from death. This again, is a spiritually discerned Truth.
It is of the carnal mind, to dis-own one's self from the Blessing and the Birthright. But if a man has the mind of Christ, they will know these truths.
I pray for you my dear brother.
Son of Israel

Well said

 

[B1inHim]

I am sure that this has been said ... "harpazo" is caught up...
"Rapture" is derived from the Latin verb: 'rapere', of 1 Thess. 4:17—"we will be caught up," ['to carry off' - or 'catch up']).to take away or snatch out.

A Dictionary meaning for Rapture says: ' The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven '.

So when we mention the Rapture, we are not saying the actual word is in the bible, but what it means is, the removing or taking away of the Christian believers.
It is not mentioned anywhere else... I Cor 15 is talking about the change we will make during this "harpazo".
But nowhere else do we find such a thing anywhere in the Bible.

There is a "first resurrection" In Rev 20 which many have combined into the "harpazo". Yet if that was true, Apostle John would have used the word "harpazo" or "raptere" somewhere in his recording of the Revelation, he did not.

Does that mean that there is an entirely different and separate something taking place, yup.
Or do we bunch all of us into ONE BIG HAPPY group.
Not according to the Word of GOD.
Just the formulas of men.

 

[Son of Israel]

Again, I will just withdraw from the debate because you and I have completely different ways of reading the Bible. You are reading it as allegorical. I am reading it as literal, especially prophecy. So given that our approaches are so different, searching the scriptures is not going to be fruitful.

I would like to know though: what prophecies do you see as literal, if any?

All of them.
They are all literally fulfilled.
In Christ.
Just not in the way an unenlightened carnal mind can see.

Let's take an example of the differance between the way I see scripture fulfilled "literally" and the way you see scripture fulfilled literally...

The prophet Simeon prophecied to Mary that in the process of her bringing forth the Saviour Jesus...

(Luk 2:35) yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

Now I ask you dear sir, is that "literal"??

Of course it is. Absolutely literal.

But will you say that it hasn't happened yet because nobody stabbed Mary through the soul with a "literal" PHYSICAL sword?
Or will you say it DID happen, that she got stabbed through the soul with a "literal" PHYSICAL sword, but that there is just no record of it, as though it happened "later" in time?
Or will you say something like, "In the future Mary is going to have a PHYSICAL body again so that this prophecy can be PHYSICALLY "literally" fulfilled? (such as what you are trying to insist O.T. prophecies say about Israel in some distant future and place?)

OR... (And may Christ Bless you with the understanding) Will you recognize and discern that Mary's soul was "literally" pierced through with a sword of tribulation and anguish in her SPIRIT in watching Her Son, the Saviour of Israel, get rejected by the Jews and crucified right before her very eyes?

We can do this all day. In fact, this is what I do all day and I love it. I love His Word and I Love His Knowledge and Wisdom and how He Reveals it unto those of Pure Heart. (I perceive you have a pure heart and it is why I write you specifically, you just got a big dose of bad theology is all

What is this Sword anyway? Is it one like what Peter used to cut off Malchus' ear?

Or was it more like the Sword of the Spirit which brings tribulation and then Salvation?

The Armor of God... is it "literal"?
Of course it is...

(Eph 6:17) And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

THAT SWORD is a lot more "literal" in the enlightened eyes of God's Elect than any piece of iron could ever be. So also is the Helmet and the rest of the "literal" armor of God.

BUT IT IS NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH A CARNAL PHYSICAL MENTAL PICTURE THAT WE FIRST IMAGINE WHEN WE READ OR HEAR THE WORDS.

So was the Sword that pierced through Mary's soul "literal"?

Yes, it was literal.

So also are ALL the prophecies of God to Israel.

And they are LITERALLY fulfilled in Christ and His Church.
Now.
Today.

In the Love of Jesus,
Son of Israel

 

[NJBeliever]

SonofIsrael -- You are describing metaphors and then calling them literal. Let's just agree to disagree. We just see the Bible very differently. I may be absolutely wrong, but I believe that when God says he is going to lay a country to waste and make it desolate so that no one ever inhabits it again, that acutal physical location is toast. It's going to be physically and literally destroyed (i.e., buildings, wrecked, streets torn up, etc.) and no one is going to physically live in that geographic space.

I understand that you see it differently and I completely respect it. God bless.

 

[Son of Israel]

SonofIsrael -- You are describing metaphors and then calling them literal. Let's just agree to disagree. We just see the Bible very differently. I may be absolutely wrong, but I believe that when God says he is going to lay a country to waste and make it desolate so that no one ever inhabits it again, that acutal physical location is toast. It's going to be physically and literally destroyed (i.e., buildings, wrecked, streets torn up, etc.) and no one is going to physically live in that geographic space.

I understand that you see it differently and I completely respect it. God bless.

Yes, He destroyed His whorish Jerusalem x-wife with fire after she widowed herself by crucifying Her Husband. That was literal and physical, you are right. Those prophecies were fulfilled in AD 70 as Jesus foretold. Titus toasted it for sure. Probably will be again soon for that matter, you are no doubt correct, as the Jewish "synagogue of satan" today is no different than they ever were towards Christ and His Saints in His days. Woe woe woe unto them.

I'm sorry, I thought we were talking about the prophecies of God's elect, His Chosen remnant out of Israel that was prophecied to be saved. I misunderstood, I apologize.