There is no such thing as "the rapture"

[trialbyfire]

Luk 10:35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave [them] to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.


Jhn 14:3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, [there] ye may be also.


There is definitely a "second coming". He came the first time as the suffering lamb and will come again as the Lion of Judah.

 

[Son of Israel]

In view of these scriptures I've seen so many people make reference to from Mathew 24:40,41...

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Who would you rather be, the one left? Or the one "taken"?

Before you answer, read the preceeding verse 39...

There, the Lord has just given you Revelation.

 

[Son of Israel]

I'm reading what men are posting here concerning "tribulation"... a futuristic type thing it would appear. Seems dubious and fraught with strife and unprovable fururistic assertions.

To make things clear and simple, here is the Revealing of Christ concerning Tribulation.

John 16:33 These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

Rom 5:3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

2 Cor 1:4 Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God.

2 Cor 7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

1 Thess 3:4 For verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know.

Rev 1:9 I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Son of Israel]

Did Christ not come again as He Promised His Disciples? Did He not send them to that upper room in Jerusalem to await His Coming as the Holy Spirit?
Has He not come to you my friend?
Is He not with you now?
Have you not received His Holy Spirit in you, Christ in you, the Hope of Glory?
As for me, as He promised, He has Come and will be with me always and shall never leave nor forsake me.

 

[interpreter]

In view of these scriptures I've seen so many people make reference to from Mathew 24:40,41...

"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

Who would you rather be, the one left? Or the one "taken"?

Before you answer, read the preceeding verse 39...

There, the Lord has just given you Revelation.

Amen.
Just as in the days of Noah, the bad guys are taken away. Those "left hehind" will soon reign with Jesus and the martyrs in a glorious 1000 year reign of the Church.

 

[Son of Israel]

I'm curious, what is it that some people think Christ has not accomplished in His Coming, by running after the theology of a "Second" coming? Has not all the Law and the Prophets been fulfilled in Christs death, resurrection and coming into His own at Pentecost and henceforth unto His own who've been receiving Him at His Coming for last 2000 years?

 

[NJBeliever]

I'm curious, what is it that some people think Christ has not accomplished in His Coming, by running after the theology of a "Second" coming? Has not all the Law and the Prophets been fulfilled in Christs death, resurrection and coming into His own at Pentecost and henceforth unto His own who've been receiving Him at His Coming for last 2000 years?

No, not all of the law has been fulfilled. Jesus fulfilled all of the requirements of the law. That is without a doubt. But as for the prophecies, they are not all fulfilled in His First Coming. Even Jesus Christ Our Lord and Messiah showed us this himself! For example:

Luke 4:16And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. 17And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written,
18The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised,
19To preach the acceptable year of the Lord.
20And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Now many are familiar with this passage. Jesus was reading the first two verses of Isaiah Chapter 61. But notice something VERY important. Jesus did NOT finish verse 2. And that verse reads.

Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

In fact Jesus "closed the book" after finishing the first part. Why did he stop? Because the declaration of the day of vengeance was not yet fulfilled. God's vengeance is not fulfilled until the Day of The Lord.

I often find that amillenial/prophecy-fulfilled advocates overlook much of the Old Testament prophecy. I think it's important to consider this in your Biblical theology! I submit 3 examples for your consideration:

Zephaniah Chapter 2

Psalm 83

Isaiah 19:16-23

I ask you to explain how any of these prophecies have been fulfilled. God bless.

 

[Son of Israel]

Its an interesting parallel... when Moses tarried for 40 days before coming down from the mount with the Law written in stone, he found the people running after a foriegn god. He didn't "come down" in the manner or in the time frame they expected evidently. So they adopted a different image of their god.

But He did come.

He came very quickly in fact.
Likewise, again, with the number 40 stamped all over it, the scenario of Jesus telling His disciples to await Him in the upper room in Jerusalem for His coming at Pentecost, to be enthroned within His Kingdom of God in the bodies of His disciples, to be Married unto Him, two becoming One, by which they would bring forth Sons of God because they received the Promise of the Father... such a beautiful Revelation!
...yet people still think the "Kingdom come" or the "Coming of the Lord" is yet a futuristic thing and somewhere other than right here in us! It's that golden calf worship thing all over again it seems to me.
We are in the Reign of Christ on earth, let there be no mistaking of that dear brethren. We reign with Him as King Priests.
1 Pet 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The Kingdom of God is not "another time", nor is it "another place" and let no man deceive you on this.

Luke 17:20 And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

...(as the Pharisees thought)

Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS WITHIN YOU.

Beware the leaven of the Pharisees!

 

[get it right]

Amen.
Just as in the days of Noah, the bad guys are taken away. Those "left hehind" will soon reign with Jesus and the martyrs in a glorious 1000 year reign of the Church.

You have it wrong, the bad guys were left on the earth, they were taken by the flood.

 

[interpreter]

You have it wrong, the bad guys were left on the earth, they were taken by the flood.

Yet you admit that the bad guys were taken.

 

[Son of Israel]

The Day of the Lord...
Was that not begun on Pentecost?
Peter thought so... He quoted Joel saying this is the fulfilment of Joel's prophecy...
Acts 2: 16. But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;17. And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:18. And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:19. And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:20. The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come:

 

[contrabar]

not quite... it was the last days that had begun on Pentecost

 

[Son of Israel]

You don't think that Zeph 2 is fulfilled??

verse 1 Are we not that Nation gathered together in Christ? I am.

verse 2 Has not Christ turned away the wrath of the Lord from against us? He has me.

verse 3 Do you not seek meekness and righteousness in Him who hides His wrath from you?

verses 4 - 5 Have we not been delivered from the wickededness of the nations in Christ?

verse 6 Are we not dwelling in our great Shephard's House as His sheep?

verse 7 Was not the first church in Jerusalem comprised of a remnant of Judah? Did Jesus not turn away their/our captivity?

verse 8 Has the Lord not heard the reproach of the Heathen against us and delivered us?

verse 9 Have we not been given the possession of the wicked nations, even given ALL THINGS?

verses 10 - 13 Has not and is not our Lord going forth against the wickedness of the world in delivering us?

verse 12 Have not Ethiopians been slain by the Lord's Sword? (Ask Phillip about the eunich if confused about that)

verse 13 again, the Lord is saving us from those wicked who would oppress us.

verse 14 Are we not as flocks at rest within HER? (Heavenly Jerusalem above of course)

verse 15 finishing with God's promised wrath upon that wicked unbelieving Jerusalem, as Jesus also told His disciples about in Mathew 24, which CAME TO PASS when Titus destroyed the "Jerusalem with is beneath" in A.D 70

My dear friend, I hope this helps you in gaining and understanding of your O.T. scriptures and how they are fulfilled in Christ. Psalm 83 next...

 

[contrabar]

i cannot fully speak about amillennialism because i have done very little study on it... the only thing I do know is that if that teaching were taught by Christ, the early church would of taught it as well, but they didn't teach amillennialism... they were chiliasts.

 

[Son of Israel]

Psalm 83

verse 1 Fulfilled in God Speaking forth His New Creation in the New Testament.

verse 2 Enemies of God... those who Jesus said were the enemies of the Gospel (did God change enemies?)

verse 3,4 crafty counsel against the people of God... who was that by? Did Jesus have to deal with that? and by whom? Was it not the Pharisees? WHO IS THE ISRAEL OF GOD? Are Christians Israel? or are the unclean of the world as the Pharisees the actual Israel of God? What city did God destroy in A.D. 70 and why? Wasn't it Jerusalem because they followed after the pagan gods of Ammon, Amelek, Tyre etc etc?!

verse 12 who actually intended to claim the house of God for themselves in Christ's day, was it not the Pharisees?

verse 13 did not Jesus mention the stubble of them that would be burnt?

verse 14, 15, as a descendent of Israel, I am quite relevant to the words of this prophecy, for I was filled with shame, which resulted in seeking the Name of my Lord.

finally, verse 18 can not be disputed as fulfilled in the gospel... "That men may know that thou, whose name alone is JEHOVAH, art the most high over all the earth."

This ONLY comes by the Gospel preaching begun by Jesus Christ and carried out down through the last thousands of years

 

[Son of Israel]

Isaih 19:16-23 How is it NOT fulfilled in Christs mission, death, resurrection and coming into His own beginning 2000 years ago?

verse 19 prayer going up from our altars of sacrifice...
verse 20 Do we not cry unto the Lord? Has that Saviour not been sent?
verse 21 Is the Lord not known? (I know Him). Prayers going up to God out the Egyptian "land of bondage" and now we "Egyptians" know Him
verse 22 Have we not repented and been healed of the Lord and returned unto Him?
verse 23 Are not all barriers between the different Nationalities broken down and done away with in Christ?
verse 24 Is not the gentiles one in the Blessing of Israel in that "land" that "Heavenly Country of Promise" in Christ Jesus?
verse 25 are not the Gentiles fellow heirs and blessed in the inheritance of Israel?

The answer, if you allow the Lord to speak in the New Covenant in Christ, is YES.

 

[Son of Israel]

Who has NOT been avenged of God?

(not raising my hand...)

 

[get it right]

Get It Right in post #2:
"Ummm, having thought about that, you may be in the majority, most don't believe that christians will be caught up to Christ.

The reason being, they are happy with their lives in the world.
True christians are not, they are longing for their Heavenly reward."


In a logic text this would be an example of the psychogenic fallacy. You are second guessing other people on their motives for believing something. It's logically invalid.


*

*

No, it's not second guessing, it's from what most post here, most don't believe in a rapture, they say so.
They don't believe the scriptures tell of being caught up to Heaven even though there are many that do tell just that, so it's logical that they are happy with their lives in the world.

 

[get it right]

Yet you admit that the bad guys were taken.

The bad guys were taken by the flood, the good guys were caught away in the ark.
At Christ's coming the good guys will be caught up to God 1 Thess 4. The bad guys will be left on earth.

 

[NJBeliever]

You don't think that Zeph 2 is fulfilled??

verse 1 Are we not that Nation gathered together in Christ? I am.

verse 2 Has not Christ turned away the wrath of the Lord from against us? He has me.

verse 3 Do you not seek meekness and righteousness in Him who hides His wrath from you?

verses 4 - 5 Have we not been delivered from the wickededness of the nations in Christ?

verse 6 Are we not dwelling in our great Shephard's House as His sheep?

verse 7 Was not the first church in Jerusalem comprised of a remnant of Judah? Did Jesus not turn away their/our captivity?

verse 8 Has the Lord not heard the reproach of the Heathen against us and delivered us?

verse 9 Have we not been given the possession of the wicked nations, even given ALL THINGS?

verses 10 - 13 Has not and is not our Lord going forth against the wickedness of the world in delivering us?

verse 12 Have not Ethiopians been slain by the Lord's Sword? (Ask Phillip about the eunich if confused about that)

verse 13 again, the Lord is saving us from those wicked who would oppress us.

verse 14 Are we not as flocks at rest within HER? (Heavenly Jerusalem above of course)

verse 15 finishing with God's promised wrath upon that wicked unbelieving Jerusalem, as Jesus also told His disciples about in Mathew 24, which CAME TO PASS when Titus destroyed the "Jerusalem with is beneath" in A.D 70

My dear friend, I hope this helps you in gaining and understanding of your O.T. scriptures and how they are fulfilled in Christ. Psalm 83 next...

Okay so you are not even attempting to examine the scriptures for what they plainly state. So I won't go through every verse. You and I just have vastly different ways of interpreting and reading the Bible.

Verse 4-5 is a perfect example:

4For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up.
5Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant.

You interpret that as Christians being delivered from the wickedness of the nations?? I don't even remotely follow that. These are actual cities which compromise most of ancient Philista. The Lord is stating that He is going to destroy them and drive their people out. And that there will be NO INHABITANT left there.

This area is indeed inhabited and the descendants of the people named above (the Palestinians) live there.

I can go on, but our exposition is so vastly different, it's just two ships passing in the night. God bless.