There is no Peace without violence

[LittleLambofJesus]

DO you have wax in your ears ? Does it sound like I am objecting to the situations of CHristians in Muslims countries.

If you agree that CHristians are not living in peace in Muslims countries then that just puts français statement that CHristians lived in peace during the first 300 years.

For the first 300 yrs there were no Muslims around to persecute both the Jewish and Gentile Christians as Muhammad hadn't even arrived on the scene yet!!!!!!

The Romans and other Jews however did persecute and kill many CHRIST-ians after Jesus went to the Cross.

John 11:48 "If we let Him alone like this, everyone will be believing in Him, and the Romans will come and take away of us and the Place and the Nation.

Luke 21:22 "That days of vengeance these are, of the to be filled all-things, the having been written.
23 "Woe yet to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! For there will be great distress upon the land and wrath in on this people, these.

http://www.davieapostolicchurch.com/studies/destuct/

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover. At this season multitudes came up from all the surrounding country, and from distant parts, to keep the festival and the city was at this time crowded with Jewish strangers, and foreigners from all parts, so that the whole nation may be considered as having been shut up in one prison,..........
.......The Temple now presented little more than a heap of ruins

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

For the first 300 yrs there were no Muslims around to persecute both the Jewish and Gentile Christians as Muhammad hadn't even arrived on the scene yet!!!!!!

Duh ! It did a back flip off your nose and you still couldnt see...terrible !

The Romans and other Jews however did persecute and kill many CHRIST-ians after Jesus went to the Cross.

This was the comparitive point based on Christian perspective of Christians living in Muslim countries I was expounding upon.

 

[Rasta]

Look at Ghandi. Could he have gotten rid of British control through force? No.

When dealing with animals that have little to no mental capacity, you must resort to violence, because they do not reason.

There was a time when humans were not much more rationale than animals, so violence was necessary in the past. If people behave like animals today, we may need to resort to violence as a measure to protect ourselves.

This should always be the LAST RESORT, it is not violence that brings peace, but empathy and rationale minds.

 

[français]

Therefore the rumor that Christians are not living in peace in Muslim countries is a blunt lie.

I have a Christian friend from Egypt, and he said that it is ok for the most part, but it depends on world events. For example, there was recent controversy over a case of like 50 people who left islam and became christians, and it caused a lot of bias.. most muslims supporting that they should be punished in some sort of way, most christians say absolutely not. This seems to be causing a little stir here and there, especially in the suburbs of Cairo.

then, there was the whole danish cartoon thing.. My friend(whose name is Yacob btw) said that during that time, there was especially a lot of problems.. Many christians were even scared to go to church.

then, there are many saudi companies that are only hiring muslims. this workplace bias has always been going on.

I do suppose those that if we think about it, many times situations are bad here too. but, i would not underestimate how bad christians have it in egypt. Christians are required to read the qu'raan as part of school literature, which is just disgusting. If they do that, then they should read the bible, and other religious texts.

 

[Futuwwa]

I do suppose those that if we think about it, many times situations are bad here too. but, i would not underestimate how bad christians have it in egypt. Christians are required to read the qu'raan as part of school literature, which is just disgusting. If they do that, then they should read the bible, and other religious texts.

What's so disgusting about that? It's a society which has been dominantly Islamic for over a millennium, and where religion has huge societal influence. Considering that, knowing something about the religion in question becomes a matter of common knowledge.

 

[Snowbunny]

Its rare that I ever start threads, but this one was binding due to vast amount of perpectives of people on the concept of peace.

You need violence to counteract against violence to establish peace.

hola Oxy2Hydr0,

i disagree... i think if you look at history large organized peaceful campaigns (like the civil rights movement) have been just as effective as large scale organized violence (like wars). also violence is a self fulfilling prophecy, very often the cause of violence is due to the fear that it will happen. that is how many, if not all wars occur.

sometimes the cost of peaceful resistance is very high, but then again so is the cost of war...

que Dios te bendiga

 

[français]

What's so disgusting about that? It's a society which has been dominantly Islamic for over a millennium, and where religion has huge societal influence. Considering that, knowing something about the religion in question becomes a matter of common knowledge.

Then they should teach the bible too, as egypt is still 10% Christian, some say even more, and there are still provinces in Egypt that are up to 25%, and some cities that still maintain a majority Christian

 

[Apollo Celestio]

Then they should teach the bible too, as egypt is still 10% Christian, some say even more, and there are still provinces in Egypt that are up to 25%, and some cities that still maintain a majority Christian

Eh, that wouldn't be good for the government, though it'd be nice. (well, maybe not for an atheist..)
I think violence is not always needed for peace, yet usually that is the only things humans know how to do.
Ideally we wouldn't need it, but alas, we humans seem to know no other way.

 

[Rasta]

It is sad that some people think violence is necessary to bring peace. Rationally speaking, it is hardly ever the best choice.

"I will show you it's not good to hurt others! I will show you with my gun!"

In every war, innocents die. This is ALWAYS true. Every person killed is somebody's brother, father, uncle, even daughter or mother.

It is ALWAYS tragic to lose a loved one in this manner. The famly members will undoubtedly want revenge, or in the least have a strong negative bias towards the people/ group/ faith of the attackers.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

It is sad that some people think violence is necessary to bring peace. Rationally speaking, it is hardly ever the best choice.

"I will show you it's not good to hurt others! I will show you with my gun!"

In every war, innocents die. This is ALWAYS true. Every person killed is somebody's brother, father, uncle, even daughter or mother.

It is ALWAYS tragic to lose a loved one in this manner. The famly members will undoubtedly want revenge, or in the least have a strong negative bias towards the people/ group/ faith of the attackers.

Great post and how true.
What is that old proverb "when seeking revenge, first dig 2 graves"?

Ezekiel 38:21 "I will call for a Sword against Gog throughout all My mountains," says Adonai YHWH. "Every man's Sword will be against his brother.

reve 6:4 And came out another horse, firery red, and to the one sitting upon it/him was given to him/it to be taking the Peace out of the land and that one another they shall be slaying and was given to him a Sword, Great.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
For the first 300 yrs there were no Muslims around to persecute both the Jewish and Gentile Christians as Muhammad hadn't even arrived on the scene yet!!!!!!

Duh ! It did a back flip off your nose and you still couldnt see...terrible !

Gotta love your wit and sense of humour!!!!!

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of the Age, this, blinds the minds of the faith-less, into no to be radiant the lighting of the Glad-Tidings of the glory of the Christ, who is the Image of the God.

 

[Futuwwa]

i disagree... i think if you look at history large organized peaceful campaigns (like the civil rights movement) have been just as effective as large scale organized violence (like wars). also violence is a self fulfilling prophecy, very often the cause of violence is due to the fear that it will happen. that is how many, if not all wars occur.

But then, the civil rights movement took place in a democratic environment, where convincing enough people is enough to win. Would the civil rights movement have won in a despotic environment where the rulers wouldn't hesitate to crack down on them with military might?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Originally Posted by Snowbunny
i disagree... i think if you look at history large organized peaceful campaigns (like the civil rights movement) have been just as effective as large scale organized violence (like wars). also violence is a self fulfilling prophecy, very often the cause of violence is due to the fear that it will happen. that is how many, if not all wars occur.

Hi. The Bible has been a lot of the cause of Wars and Genocides in early history and still is to this day as both Islam and Christ-ianity await the "return of Jesus" to rid this eath of "Evil".
That belief in itself is self fulfilling.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell73.html

If anyone still thinks that the radical end-times "prophecy" movement is not a threat to peace and stability, think again. At the popular level, in terms of the TV preachers and the hot-selling prophecy books, the dispensational pre-trib stuff still reigns supreme. Most conservative-leaning Evangelical churches in America today are heavily influenced by popular dispensational theology to some extent. Even churches and pastors that don’t teach pretribulationalism still are influenced by dispensationalism to varying degrees.

Enter the Rev. John Hagee. Hagee is the pastor of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio Texas, where he has 18,000 followers right in his own congregation. He also has a global television ministry and has sold scores of prophecy books over the years. John Hagee is perhaps the most powerful and influential Christian Zionist figure in America. Hagee has a long history making strange predictions about world events that are almost always wrong.
[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]To see just how bellicose, belligerent, and militaristic Hagee has come. Behind his thundering prose and love for the Jewish people is a militaristic and even fanatical mindset that is hoping and praying for the world to fall apart. After all, Jesus can’t come back unless it does, but all is well since Christians before the "rapture" will escape the worst of it. [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]Unfortunately for the Jewish people, they still await another massive holocaust, according to many dispensationalists. Anyone interested in this subject should read our own Gary North’s column, The Unannounced Reason Behind American Fundamentalism's Support for the State of Israel. An excerpt:[/FONT]

 

[Oxy2Hydr0]

Rasta,

It is sad to see people who "illogically" think they can establish peace with an "initiated violence" without counteracting it with voilence ie combatant force.

I find it that people are more following emotional reasoning rather than a logical one.

This country (USA) and all countries and civilizations used violence ie combatant force to counteract their enemies, and criminals whom "initiated violence".

Many of you are reading but not understanding "initiated violence" we are not talking about "post violence" which of course leaves much room fro diplomacy, and wrning not to engage in such acts.

So, the majority has expressed that if someone walks into your home to kill your family and has already killed one person (initiated violence) they would first try diplomacy rather than using violence ie combatant force to stop such person. That is ironically preposterous.

So if Ghengis Khan was getting ready to plunder your town, make you slaves, and cause oppression and slaughter upon you that your not going to fight to protect and establish the peace of your land ?

If Japan was to invade the USA now (initiated violence) you think the best way to deal with this is just lay down and let them take over the USA ?

I personally think many of you are being very hyprocritcal in your answer, and if such thing was to arise you will do exactly what is in your "G-d given nature" to do, and this is to defend your self and loved ones by all means.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Rasta,

It is sad to see people who "illogically" think they can establish peace with an "initiated violence" without counteracting it with voilence ie combatant force.

I find it that people are more following emotional reasoning rather than a logical one.

This country (USA) and all countries and civilizations used violence ie combatant force to counteract their enemies, and criminals whom "initiated violence".

Many of you are reading but not understanding "initiated violence" we are not talking about "post violence" which of course leaves much room fro diplomacy, and wrning not to engage in such acts.

So, the majority has expressed that if someone walks into your home to kill your family and has already killed one person (initiated violence) they would first try diplomacy rather than using violence ie combatant force to stop such person. That is ironically preposterous.

So if Ghengis Khan was getting ready to plunder your town, make you slaves, and cause oppression and slaughter upon you that your not going to fight to protect and establish the peace of your land ?

If Japan was to invade the USA now (initiated violence) you think the best way to deal with this is just lay down and let them take over the USA ?

I personally think many of you are being very hyprocritcal in your answer, and if such thing was to arise you will do exactly what is in your "G-d given nature" to do, and this is to defend your self and loved ones by all means.

And how many "GRAVES" were dug for each side as a result of it?
Who is more responsible, the Attacker or the One being attacked?

Matthew 21:21 Answering the Jesus said to them, "Verily I am saying to ye, if ever ye may be having Faith, and no ye may be doubting, not only the of the fig-tree ye shall be doing, but even-ever to the mountain, this, ye may saying, 'Be ye being lifted up! and be you being cast into the Sea', it shall be becoming/genhsetai <1096> (5695)"; [Revelation 8:8]

 

[Snowbunny]

But then, the civil rights movement took place in a democratic environment, where convincing enough people is enough to win. Would the civil rights movement have won in a despotic environment where the rulers wouldn't hesitate to crack down on them with military might?

like the British Raj?

 

[Futuwwa]

Which?

 

[Snowbunny]

Which?

does it really matter... british imperialism was based on extreme acts of brutality, it crumbled under peaceful resistance.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

does it really matter... british imperialism was based on extreme acts of brutality, it crumbled under peaceful resistance.

Hola!!! Isn't the catholic denomination also waiting on the "return of Jesus" like the Muslims are?
How does the Catholics version of that compare to the Muslim's version? Just curious. Thanks.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/barnwell/barnwell73.html

If anyone still thinks that the radical end-times "prophecy" movement is not a threat to peace and stability, think again. At the popular level, in terms of the TV preachers and the hot-selling prophecy books, the dispensational pre-trib stuff still reigns supreme. Most conservative-leaning Evangelical churches in America today are heavily influenced by popular dispensational theology to some extent. Even churches and pastors that don&#8217;t teach pretribulationalism still are influenced by dispensationalism to varying degrees.

 

[Snowbunny]

hola lamb,

yes, Catholics await the return of Jesus. our beliefs are much different than muslims though, as Revelations confirms the Lordship of Jesus, something the Muslims do not believe.

que Dios te bendiga