Former Biden diplomat says there’s ‘no question’ that ‘free Palestine’ slogan has become a call for violence

[JosephZ]

I do not live there. If I did I wouldn't be alive to have this conversation with you.

Or did you not know apostasy is actual death in Palestine under Hamas?

Apostasy is not punishable by death in Palestine, even in Gaza where Hamas is in control.

 

[Hazelelponi]

" The Jewish people and the state of Isrel are not the same thing.

I think since my perspective on the answer to the question "Who's a Jew?" And "what is Israel" diverges significantly from some more vocal modern Christians, then my view on "what is antisemitic" also is less clear.

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Thereby to be "anti" semitic appears to be used in the sense of opposing those in any of the three above main categories of "semite" in ways more harmful to their survival, usually because of some kind of hatred.

I believe Christians are Jews Biblically speaking, and the Israel of Scripture is decidedly not a modern nationstate - so I had to become more clear on definitions.

I accept however, that we have to use modern definitions even when they are clearly a bit nonsensical and not very accurate because it's all people understand - Its just the label it got.

 

[BCP1928]

I think since my perspective on the answer to the question "Who's a Jew?" diverges significantly from some more vocal modern Christians, then my view on "what is antisemitic" also is less clear.

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Thereby to be "anti" semitic appears to be used in the sense of opposing those in any of the three above main categories of "semite" in ways more harmful to their survival, usually because of some kind of hatred.

I believe Christians are Jews Biblically speaking, so you have to become more clear on definitions. I accept however, that we have to use modern definitions even when they are clearly a bit nonsensical and not very accurate because it's all people understand.Its just the label it got.

I think that what it boils down to for Christians in this country is not "who's a Jew" but whether or not they see the present state of Israel as a fulfillment of God's promise. If Israel really is the promised land then naturally any criticism of it would extend to the Jewish people as a whole and be antisemitic.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I think that what it boils down to for Christians in this country is not "who's a Jew" but whether or not they see the present state of Israel as a fulfillment of God's promise. If Israel really is the promised land then naturally any criticism of it would extend to the Jewish people as a whole and be antisemitic.

In America, dispensationalism—an eschatological view I reject—drives some religious support for Israel on the surface, but it’s hardly the majority opinion amongst Christians, just the more vocal because it sells books. (Anything dramatic sells books)

It’s an eschatological perspective that’s perhaps misguided, not grounded in Scripture but even those seeing eschatological significance in the modern nation state wouldn’t back Israel if it were unjustly attacking a peaceful population

And no, it's not attacking a peaceful population when a people are lobbing rockets at you or whatever and so you retaliate with military force to stop the attackers. That's just called war. A just war at that.

So there's never going to be more than just a fringe who think Israel, the greater military power, should concede loss in a war they have won the second they start to fight it seriously.

Im not rooting for Hamas to win, because no Palestinian has a future if they do, much less the Israeli's. I would rather have peace through strength and the end of Hamas.

 

[Hans Blaster]

However, in secular society I will offer that the definition used in the wider society is that to be "Semitic" applies to those people practicing some form of old covenant Judaism -the religion - or are ethnically Hebrew (specificaly from a certain tribe of Hebrews) or simply live in the modern nation state of Israel even if they are an Israeli Arabs, and who believe in Israels right to exist as a self determining modern nation state.

Semitic is the name of a language group, not a people. We need a better word for bigotry against or hatred towards Jewish people.

 

[trophy33]

It astonishes me that you never find a single issue with the Arab community or Palestinians but blame everything on Israel.

Do you understand why some people view that as anti-Semitism?

No. And I do not even understand your reasoning. I said both sides must work on peace and that basically none of these sides wants a two-state solution, at least not the one advantageous for both sides.

And because American evangelical Christians seem to blindly side with Israel no matter what evil it does, I balance it out by pointing the issues out, which seems to astonish you.

If we can agree that beating or raping somebody to submission is morally not OK, why do we tolerate it when it is among nations? What Israel has been doing in Gaza is horrible and it must stop "NOW" as Trump likes to formulate his online comments.

It is in Israel's best interest to stop it, because the international outrage and creating even more radicals with each bomb, death and destroyed house is not making his future (and any two-state solution) easier. Driving people back and forth like cattle and even obstructing humanitarian aid is not something we should either support or be called anti-Semites.

 

[trophy33]

What steps do you believe Israel, Palestinian authorities, Arab nations, the United States, and the rest of the international community should take to achieve lasting peace in the Middle East?

I cannot think of any. And it is not surprising, because nobody could think of any for about 100 years now.

All the countries and nations there would need to somehow become culturally, religiously, politically and ethnically compatible. With similar level of economy and military. And then strongly cooperate regarding business and movement of people, like for example the EU.

But nobody knows how to do it practically. Because the modern state of Israel was created there and people transplanted there without any historical development and without any compatibility with the culture or religion there. And different Islamic denominations in the region, which do not like each other at all, do not make things easier.

 

[BCP1928]

In America, dispensationalism—an eschatological view I reject—drives some religious support for Israel on the surface, but it’s hardly the majority opinion amongst Christians, just the more vocal because it sells books. (Anything dramatic sells books)

It’s an eschatological perspective that’s perhaps misguided, not grounded in Scripture but even those seeing eschatological significance in the modern nation state wouldn’t back Israel if it were unjustly attacking a peaceful population

And no, it's not attacking a peaceful population when a people are lobbing rockets at you or whatever and so you retaliate with military force to stop the attackers. That's just called war. A just war at that.

So there's never going to be more than just a fringe who think Israel, the greater military power, should concede loss in a war they have won the second they start to fight it seriously.

Im not rooting for Hamas to win, because no Palestinian has a future if they do, much less the Israeli's. I would rather have peace through strength and the end of Hamas.

It's not that they are attacking, but how they are attacking that's the issue. You don't contribute much to the situation by insinuating that the only alternative to the way they are conducting the war is to surrender.