There is no Hell?

[DennisTate]

For the first 6,000 years, humans believed hell is below the soil and heaven is above the clouds. Now, hell's definition is refined as a place without God and heaven is refined as a place with God's presence. But, God is everywhere! So does that mean we don't need to follow the scriptures and still be in heaven when we died?

I would be kind of surprised if you don't find the near death experience of Dr. George Ritchie somewhat helpful on this question.


George Ritchie - Near-Death Experiences | Near-Death.com

 

[ViaCrucis]

Although Luther dares not go so far as to remove James from the scriptures, I can't think of a single instance where he taught it. And I've read a lot of Luther's works.

Luther kept it, but somewhat grudgingly. He also took issue with Hebrews, Jude, and the Apocalypse, through this had more to do with the fact that these were highly contentious, debated texts in antiquity moreso than the theological problem he had with James as an "epistle of straw".

-CryptoLutheran

 

[DennisTate]

Luther kept it, but somewhat grudgingly. He also took issue with Hebrews, Jude, and the Apocalypse, through this had more to do with the fact that these were highly contentious, debated texts in antiquity moreso than the theological problem he had with James as an "epistle of straw".

-CryptoLutheran

Interesting........this is probably not your cup of tea but I have wondered if the reformer and his wife who meet Pastor Rick in a visionary dream could have been Luther and his wife????????!!!!

You would probably be able to tell me immediately if this account does not fit at all......I don't know enough about the life of Luther to know for sure.


https://www.facebook.com/notes/west...isionary-dream-of-heaven-this/515483341808937

Pastor Rick Joyner meets Reformer and his wife in visionary dream of heaven. This explains a lot about men and women!

December 12, 2012 at 8:35amhttps://www.facebook.com/notes/west...sionary-dream-of-heaven-this/515483341808937#
http://www.scribd.com/doc/63814881/TheVision-The-Final-Quest-the-Call-RickJoyner-PDF
Pastor Rick Joyner, The Vision, pages 25-27

......

"I understand how you feel," remarked another man I recognized as one I considered one of the greatest Christian leaders of all time. "Paul the apostle said near the end of his life that he was the least of the saints. Then just before his death he even called himself 'the greatest of sinners.' Had he not learned that in his life on earth he, too, would have been in jeopardy of being one of the least of the saints in heaven. Because he learned it on earth he is now one of those closest to the Lord, and will be one of the highest in rank for all of eternity."

Seeing this man in the company of "The foolish virgins" was the greatest surprise I had yet. "I cannot believe that you, too, are one of the foolish who slept away their lives on earth. Why are you here?"

"I am here because I made one of the most grave mistakes you can make as one entrusted with the glorious gospel of our Savior. Just as the apostle Paul progressed from not considering himself inferior to the greatest apostles, to being the greatest of sinners, I took the opposite course. I started out knowing that I had been one the greatest of sinners who had found grace, but ended up thinking that I was one of the greatest apostles. It was because of my great pride, not insecurity like our friend here, that I began to attack everyone who did not see everything just the way I did. Those who followed me I stripped of their own callings, and even their personalities, pressuring them to all become just like me. No one around me could be themselves. No one dared to question me because I would crush them into powder; I thought that by making others smaller I made myself larger.
......

 

[smaneck]

Luther kept it, but somewhat grudgingly. He also took issue with Hebrews, Jude, and the Apocalypse, through this had more to do with the fact that these were highly contentious, debated texts in antiquity moreso than the theological problem he had with James as an "epistle of straw".

-CryptoLutheran

My understanding is that 2 Peter was the most controversial text in antiquity. Did Luther have any problem with that?

 

[ViaCrucis]

My understanding is that 2 Peter was the most controversial text in antiquity. Did Luther have any problem with that?

There was a whole collection of disputed works, the Antilegomena, which included 2 Peter, 2 and 3 John, Jude, James, Hebrews, the Apocalypse of John, as well as the Didache, 1 Clement, the Epistle of Barnabas, the Apocalypse of Peter and the Shepherd of Hermas.

These were the works most highly debated. I'd say the most controversal of them all was the Apocalypse of St. John. The Eastern Church still had a lot of problems with it even during the time of the Iconoclastic Controversy in the 8th century, and as I understand it St. John of Damascus was instrumental in it being more readily accepted among the churches of the East.

As far as I know, Luther never took issue with 2 Peter or 2nd or 3rd letters of John. It seems to have specifically been these four books in particular which he was rather doubtful of; and even while he never removed them, he did position them so they would be at the very end of his German translation.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Zoness]

I don't think it's the biggest difference.

Both with regards to theological theory and social practice, Lutheranism has consistently turned out to be the more humane, compassionate and philanthropic option out of the two. It's not a coincidence that societies with a strong Calvinist/Reformed influence tend to be considerably more merciless and cut-throat.
Just compare the USA and Britain to protestant parts of Europe, such as Scandinavia or even Germany.

Interesting, I wonder if anyone has ever written about this extensively as I believe there is some merit in it.

 

[smaneck]

As far as I know, Luther never took issue with 2 Peter or 2nd or 3rd letters of John. It seems to have specifically been these four books in particular which he was rather doubtful of; and even while he never removed them, he did position them so they would be at the very end of his German translation.

-CryptoLutheran

That suggest to me that Luther's motives had more to do with the theology expressed in the books he questioned, not simply the fact they were debated in antiquity.