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There is no hell.

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&Abel

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the jews rejected and killed the father in the form of a man...they rejected their god and because of pride held on to obsolete covenant

since then any variation in their law is not of god its of the dark one...jews don't even come close to upholding the fathers covenant
 
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Meshavrischika

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and how do you view it LLOJ (long time no see btw)

no, they did what they were supposed to do. it was the way it was meant to be. it was and is a part of His perfect plan. saying it was anything else is denying that without it, there would be no cross and no salvation for anyone, ever.

you didn't read Genesis yet did you?
 
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LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
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and how do you view it LLOJ (long time no see btw)
I view it as the OC Jewish Temple/Sanctuary passing away.

I don't believe YHWH will ever again accept animal sacrifices from the Jews in the future but then again, the Jews do not read the book of Revelation or our NT....sigh

Mark 6:11 And who soever should not be receiving ye nor should be hearing of-ye going out thence, shake off! the dust/coun <5522> the underneath thine feet into a testimony to-them. Amen I say unto ye, it shall be more tolerable to-Sodom or Gomorrha in a day of Judgment, then that city". [#5522 used in Revelation 18:19]

Revelation 18:19 And they cast dust/coun <5522> upon their heads and cried-out lamenting and mourning saying "Woe! Woe! the City the Great, in which are-rich all those having ships in the sea out of Her preciousness! that in one hour was Desolated. [#5522 used only in Mark 6:11]
 
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&Abel

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and how do you view it LLOJ (long time no see btw)

no, they did what they were supposed to do. it was the way it was meant to be. it was and is a part of His perfect plan. saying it was anything else is denying that without it, there would be no cross and no salvation for anyone, ever.

you didn't read Genesis yet did you?

I don't need to read Genesis for this conversation far as I can tell

it IS part of his perfect plan but those who choose to live by the law and don't uphold it perfectly also die by the law and are judged by the law

those who were saved pre-christ were looking beyond the law...they understood god was going to erase their sins in the future
 
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Der Alte

This is me about 1 yr. old. when FDR was president
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Revelation 20:14
Then death and Hades (The Grave) were thrown into the lake of fire (Judgment). The lake of fire (Judgment) is the second death.

Death is the punctiliar cessation of life it has no physical properties therefore could not be thrown anywhere.

The angel of death and the demon of hell (hades) were sentient beings with specific powers, they were thrown into the lake of fire.
Rev 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.​
 
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Der Alte

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All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."

Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?

Still ignoring the context of this verse trying to prove your assumptions/presuppositions. This is NOT speaking of the condition of the dead but things in this lifetime, "under the sun."

[SIZE=-1]The Hebrew word "SHEOL" translated into English is "GRAVE." The word "GRAVE" is a TRANSLATION and the word "HELL" is an INTERPRETATION." Why would an Omnipotent God have any need or desire to torture living being for all eternity. That does not make sense to even a human being. If the punishment for sin is death, then how is it that there is life in hell. Hell is from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism.[/SIZE]

I have seen you produce NO, NONE ZERO evidence for anything. You just keep repeating your assumptions/presuppositions over and over. Multiple repetition does NOT make them any more valid. And as you have done in every post you ignore my post and do NOT address a single thing in it. I'm sure you sincerely believe everything you say, but so do the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

You claim that the concept of a fiery place of eternal punishment is "from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism." If you are correct, why would Jesus use something like that to illustrate a Bible truth? If the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, where is the scriptural evidence for the purpose of the parable? Where does Jesus explain it? Can you show me any evidence, not what you believe in your heart?
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]The opening poster is correct in his citings. Death and "hell" are in fact tossed into the infamous LAKE where 'those' things will find their PERMANENT ENDING.

There is however not one single named person in the entirety of the scriptures stated to be heading to that Lake NOR is there a single named person ever threatened with such a fate.

The devil and his messengers are stated specifically to be heading for the Lake of Fire and that is HELL for THEM...

And since these 'entities' are found WITH mankind it is not hard to divide which scriptures are for WHOM if you see that FACT of them with your fellow man. Jesus showed us this FACT on nearly every page of the N.T. and that fact is also a CLUE as to why the RICH MAN in the parable DIDN'T HAVE A NAME...

There are strangers with mankind that Jesus does not know, nor has He ever. And they are NOT your fellow man whom Jesus commanded us to LOVE.[/SIZE]


A fanciful interpretation for which I see NO, NONE, ZERO scriptural or historical evidence. OTOH earlier I posted part of an article from the Jewish Encyclopedia showing the Jewish understanding of a fiery place of eternal punishment. Absent any credible evidence, your views are no more credible than MTAA.
 
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&Abel

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Job 26

5"The (C)departed spirits tremble
Under the waters and their inhabitants.

6"Naked is (D)Sheol before Him,
And [a](E)Abaddon has no covering.
7"He (F)stretches out the north over empty space
And hangs the earth on nothing.
8"He (G)wraps up the waters in His clouds,
And the cloud does not burst under them.
9"He (H)obscures the face of the full moon
And spreads His cloud over it.
10"He has inscribed a (I)circle on the surface of the waters
At the (J)boundary of light and darkness.
11"The pillars of heaven tremble
And are amazed at His rebuke.
12"He (K)quieted the sea with His power,
And by His (L)understanding He shattered (M)Rahab.
13"By His breath the (N)heavens are cleared;
His hand has pierced (O)the fleeing serpent.
14"Behold, these are the fringes of His ways;
And how faint (P)a word we hear of Him!
But His mighty (Q)thunder, who can understand?"
 
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GuardianShua

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I have seen you produce NO, NONE ZERO evidence for anything. You just keep repeating your assumptions/presuppositions over and over. Multiple repetition does NOT make them any more valid. And as you have done in every post you ignore my post and do NOT address a single thing in it. I'm sure you sincerely believe everything you say, but so do the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

You claim that the concept of a fiery place of eternal punishment is "from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism." If you are correct, why would Jesus use something like that to illustrate a Bible truth? If the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, where is the scriptural evidence for the purpose of the parable? Where does Jesus explain it? Can you show me any evidence, not what you believe in your heart?

Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"
 
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Meshavrischika

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I don't need to read Genesis for this conversation far as I can tell

it IS part of his perfect plan but those who choose to live by the law and don't uphold it perfectly also die by the law and are judged by the law

those who were saved pre-christ were looking beyond the law...they understood god was going to erase their sins in the future
where do you find in the bible "salvation pre christ"... besides the Law
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

That totally fails to answer the question.
 
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ThomasDa

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There are 3 hells.

1) "Hades" simply means "pit" or "grave."
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 and verse 10 say this about this "hell." For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; There is no thought process once you are dead. You will have to be resurrected before you can think again.

2) "Gehenna" is a place of punishment. This is the "Lake of Fire." This too is referred to as "hell."
Since Ro.6:23 says For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And Ezek.18:4, 20 say Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

We should see what happens to these in this "Gehenna." Malachi 4:1 say &#8220;For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,&#8221; &#8220;That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.&#8220;You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,&#8221;Says the LORD of hosts.
This is the second death, from which there is no chance of life again. It will be as if they were never born. They will not live in hell being tortured forever. They will not live anywhere ever again.


3) There is one more "Tartaroo" it is only used once in the Bible. In 2Pet.2:4. This one refers to a place where Satan and his demons will be restrained forever. This is the only one that lasts forever. This is never applied to people.
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]There are 3 hells.

1) "Hades" simply means "pit" or "grave."
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 and verse 10 say this about this "hell." For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing, And they have no more reward, For the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished; There is no thought process once you are dead. You will have to be resurrected before you can think again.[/SIZE]

I would really appreciate it if you would read my previous posts on this in this thread. I have addressed this more than once.

You are quoting the Ecclesiastes passage out-of-context. It is NOT talking about the eternal state of the dead but the state of the dead in relation to this life, "under the sun," vss. 9:3, 6. For example, if this passage means what you claim then it must also mean that God completely forgets all the dead, and once they are dead there is neither reward or punishment for them.
Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.​
[SIZE=-1]2) "Gehenna" is a place of punishment. This is the "Lake of Fire." This too is referred to as "hell."
Since Ro.6:23 says For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
And Ezek.18:4, 20 say Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father as well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die.20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Is this the same death as when God told man in the day that you eat of the tree of life, you shall surely die?
[SIZE=-1]We should see what happens to these in this "Gehenna." Malachi 4:1 say “For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” “That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.“You shall trample the wicked, for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet On the day that I do this,”Says the LORD of hosts.[/SIZE]

Where exactly will the nation Israel be trampling on the ashes of the wicked when they are totally annihilated? That passage is talking about the temporal destruction of one of Israel enemies.
[SIZE=-1]This is the second death, from which there is no chance of life again. It will be as if they were never born. They will not live in hell being tortured forever. They will not live anywhere ever again.[/SIZE]

Nothing you have posted supports this.
[SIZE=-1]3) There is one more "Tartaroo" it is only used once in the Bible. In 2Pet.2:4. This one refers to a place where Satan and his demons will be restrained forever. This is the only one that lasts forever. This is never applied to people.[/SIZE]

While "tartaroo" may be what you say, since according to you this is never applied to people, can you explain why Jesus used the example of a place of conscious fiery torment from which there is no escape in Luke 16? [/SIZE]
 
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Der Alte

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[SIZE=-1]hell is not tossed into the lake of fire HADES is

hades is another word for sheol which is the current bode of the dead

it will be destroyed after judgment[/SIZE]

Hades, and sheol, which according to scripture which you conveniently ignore, are more than a hole in the ground where people are buried. You also conveniently ignore that death along with Hades is thrown into the LOF. Death is the punctiliar cessation of life, it has no physical properties therefore cannot be thrown anywhere but the angel of death and the demon of hades are sentient beings with power to kill, and can be and are thrown into the LOF.
 
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Der Alte

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I have seen you produce NO, NONE ZERO evidence for anything. You just keep repeating your assumptions/presuppositions over and over. Multiple repetition does NOT make them any more valid. And as you have done in every post you ignore my post and do NOT address a single thing in it. I'm sure you sincerely believe everything you say, but so do the Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, etc.

You claim that the concept of a fiery place of eternal punishment is "from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism." If you are correct, why would Jesus use something like that to illustrate a Bible truth? If the story of Lazarus and the rich man is a parable, where is the scriptural evidence for the purpose of the parable? Where does Jesus explain it? Can you show me any evidence, not what you believe in your heart?

Genesis 3:4
"You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman.

Genesis 18:25
Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

The scripture cited does NOT address anything in my post. Shall I assume that you have no reply to my questions?
 
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&Abel

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Hades, and sheol, which according to scripture which you conveniently ignore, are more than a hole in the ground where people are buried. You also conveniently ignore that death along with Hades is thrown into the LOF. Death is the punctiliar cessation of life, it has no physical properties therefore cannot be thrown anywhere but the angel of death and the demon of hades are sentient beings with power to kill, and can be and are thrown into the LOF.

why do you assume that the lake of fire has physical properties? we are talking about the spiritual realm and death most definitely has spiritual properties
 
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