There is no hell.

[Der Alte]

Luke 16
The Rich Man and Lazarus parable
19"There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

22"The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23In hell,(In The Grave) where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

25"But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

27"He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."

Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?

Ecclesiastes 9:5
For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even the memory of them is forgotten.

Still ignoring the context of this verse trying to prove your assumptions/presuppositions. This is NOT speaking of the condition of the dead but things in this lifetime, "under the sun."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

Also remember to whom Jesus spoke those parables to and the reaction of the corrupet Judeans rulers to them.

And note also those who sought to kill "lazarus" in John 12

John 12:10 Counsel yet the Chief-Priests that also the Lazarus they may be killing.

 

[GuardianShua]

All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."

Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?



Still ignoring the context of this verse trying to prove your assumptions/presuppositions. This is NOT speaking of the condition of the dead but things in this lifetime, "under the sun."

The Hebrew word "SHEOL" translated into English is "GRAVE." The word "GRAVE" is a TRANSLATION and the word "HELL" is an INTERPRETATION." Why would an Omnipotent God have any need or desire to torture living being for all eternity. That does not make sense to even a human being. If the punishment for sin is death, then how is it that there is life in hell. Hell is from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

The Hebrew word "SHEOL" translated into English is "GRAVE." The word "GRAVE" is a TRANSLATION and the word "HELL" is an INTERPRETATION." Why would an Omnipotent God have any need or desire to torture living being for all eternity. That does not make sense to even a human being. If the punishment for sin is death, then how is it that there is life in hell. Hell is from the Pagan religions. It is not an original teaching of Judaism.

Heck, Sheol even has a "hand"

Hosea 13:14 "From hand of sh@'owl I shall release/rescue them, from Death I shall Redeem them. Where plagues of you Death?. Where sting of you sh@'owl? Regret shall be hidden from My eyes." [1 Corin 15:55]

Reve 5:9 And they are singing a song, new, saying: "worthy Thou are to be receiving the scroll and to open-up the seals of it that Thou was slain/slaughtered and did purchase/hgorasaV <59> to the God of us in the blood of Thee out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation". [Hosea 13:14]

 

[squint]

All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

A literal parable then?

All Word is 'spiritual' and must be understood in that direction, even when it's presented 'literally.' There was a literal Hagar and her son...which same were literal allegories for 'us.'

Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."

Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?

The opening poster is correct in his citings. Death and "hell" are in fact tossed into the infamous LAKE where 'those' things will find their PERMANENT ENDING.

There is however not one single named person in the entirety of the scriptures stated to be heading to that Lake NOR is there a single named person ever threatened with such a fate.

The devil and his messengers are stated specifically to be heading for the Lake of Fire and that is HELL for THEM...

And since these 'entities' are found WITH mankind it is not hard to divide which scriptures are for WHOM if you see that FACT of them with your fellow man. Jesus showed us this FACT on nearly every page of the N.T. and that fact is also a CLUE as to why the RICH MAN in the parable DIDN'T HAVE A NAME...

There are strangers with mankind that Jesus does not know, nor has He ever. And they are NOT your fellow man whom Jesus commanded us to LOVE.

enjoy!

squint

 

[Meshavrischika]

Honestly, I tend to agree with Michael... but then I'm likely in the minority... and don't feel like reading 5+ pages...

I think we misinterpret not only hell, but what heaven is as well...

 

[&Abel]

All legitimate parables are identified as such. They use common every day, events, known and understood by Jesus' audience, to explain or clarify unclear Biblical truths. Since the most ancient times shepherds have lost sheep, people have lost coins, and found them. Sons have squandered their father's money and returned home in shame, etc. Jesus could legitimately use anonymous people and events as parabolic illustrations.

Unlike the legitimate parables, in this story Jesus identifies two people by name, Lazarus and an actual historical person, Abraham. Jesus quotes the rich man as addressing him, as father Abraham. If Abraham was not in that specific place, and did not speak the words that Jesus quoted, then Jesus was lying.

Unlike the legitimate parables, which use common ordinary everyday events, the story of Lazarus and the rich man uses death and post death events, something entirely unknown to his audience and even to people today. Nobody knows, or has ever known, exactly what happens, immediately after death. Jesus never identified the story as a parable, and never explained the relevance as he did in all legitimate parables. Were one to search online you would find dozens of "explanations" of what the "parable really means."

Some argue that "hell," as a place of eternal punishment, is a pagan belief imagined in scripture by modern scholars, etc. Why would Jesus use nonexistent, imaginary, easily misunderstood, pagan appearing events to illustrate some Biblical teaching which he never explains?



Still ignoring the context of this verse trying to prove your assumptions/presuppositions. This is NOT speaking of the condition of the dead but things in this lifetime, "under the sun."

very well said

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Honestly, I tend to agree with Michael... but then I'm likely in the minority... and don't feel like reading 5+ pages...

I think we misinterpret not only hell, but what heaven is as well...

Well take for example the Jews of today. They have no concept of an eternal hellfire as do the Muslims and most of Christianity.
Who best to know about that than the Jews

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend! and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the redemption of ye

Reve 16:17 and the seventh messenger pours out the bowl of him into the air and came out voice great from the sanctuary of-the heaven from the throne saying "it has become"/gegonen <1096> (5754). [Reve 21:6]

 

[Meshavrischika]

but we like to ignore them simply because they don't fit our mold of people under God's influence still... shame...

 

[&Abel]

they are not under gods influence they under the influence of the dark one

if they were under gods influence they would follow his teachings

 

[Meshavrischika]

God doesn't break covenants

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

God doesn't break covenants

Then why would YHWH promise the OC Hebrew Israelites a New Covenant?

Hebrews 8:8 "For faulting to-them, He is saying `Behold, days are coming, is saying Lord, and shall-be-together-finishing/sun-telesw <4931> (5692) upon the house of Israel, and upon the house of Judah a Covenant, New
9 Not according-as the Covenant which I make to the fathers of them in day of on-getting of Me the hand of them, to be out leading them out of land of Egypt, that they not in-remain in the Covenant/diaqhkh <1242> of Me, and I, I un-care of them, is saying Lord". [Jeremiah 31:31-33

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made Old the first. The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

 

[Meshavrischika]

8:13 By using the term, "new," he has made the first covenant "old"; and something being made old, something in the process of aging, is on its way to vanishing altogether.

yet it doesn't say gone now does it? Maybe looking into Messiah ben Joseph vs. Messiah ben David you'll grasp a little more insight into what I think it means.

 

[&Abel]

we are ALL bound to the law...we are simply not judged by it

and since the jews are denying our only way of salvation they are following lies just like any other unbeliever etc

now god does say many jews will be saved but not until they repent and come to the knowledge of christ

 

[Meshavrischika]

christians follow lies all the time Abel... why do you think there are over 3000 denoms in the U.S. alone? they are following God's ways... what makes you think those were negated? what makes you think they still cannot come to the Father through Him without buying into the common idea of christianity passed on through the church meant to propogate itself?

 

[&Abel]

the difference is we have christ as our backbone so we are forgiven for our mistakes

the jews are still living in death unforgiven and they don't uphold gods law and all that comes with it

god never broke the covenant the jews did(and continue to break it) because it is impossible for a human to keep the law without being god

 

[Meshavrischika]

and everyone before christ went to "hell" automatically, do not pass go, do not collect $200????

keeping the covenant has never been our job. if you read in Genesis between Abraham and God notice who's doing all the work. It ain't Abraham.

 

[&Abel]

no those who trusted in gods promise to redeem them are in christ as well

 

[Meshavrischika]

so that should change simply because they have yet to recognize that Messiah ben Joseph and Messiah ben David (when He returns) are one in the same?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

8:13 By using the term, "new," he has made the first covenant "old"; and something being made old, something in the process of aging, is on its way to vanishing altogether.

yet it doesn't say gone now does it? Maybe looking into Messiah ben Joseph vs. Messiah ben David you'll grasp a little more insight into what I think it means.

I suppose that depends on how the Jews view that "great City" in revelation.

Hebrews 8:13 in the to be saying 'New' He hath made Old the first. The yet being aged and being obsolete nigh of disappearance/a-fanismou <854>

Reve 18:10 from afar standing because of the fear of the torment of her saying "Woe, Woe, the City, Babylon the Great, the City, the Strong! that in one hour came the judging of thee...............