There is no hell.

[GuardianShua]

There is no hell.

...then there is no heaven.

Theory quashed.

Wrong: The word "Heaven" literally means "place-s."

 

[ticker]

Wrong

ok

 

[GuardianShua]

The views you express did NOT exist until the late 19th century or later. From the time that Moses delivered the law, the Jews understood that there was a place of eternal punishment for those who reject God. Please note the scriptures highlighted in blue.

Jewish Encyclopedia, GEHENNA
by : Kaufmann Kohler Ludwig Blau

The place where children were sacrificed to the god Moloch was originally in the "valley of the son of Hinnom," to the south of Jerusalem (Josh. xv. 8, passim; II Kings xxiii. 10; Jer. ii. 23; vii. 31-32; xix. 6, 13-14). For this reason the valley was deemed to be accursed, and "Gehenna" therefore soon became a figurative equivalent for "hell." Hell, like paradise, was created by God (Sotah 22a); [Note, this is according to the ancient Jews, long before the Christian era, NOT the bias of Christian translators.] according to Gen. R. ix. 9, the words "very good" in Gen. i. 31 refer to hell; hence the latter must have been created on the sixth day.

The "fiery furnace" that Abraham saw (Gen. xv. 17, Hebr.) was Gehenna (Mek. xx. 18b, 71b; comp. Enoch, xcviii. 3, ciii. 8; Matt. xiii. 42, 50; 'Er. 19a, where the "fiery furnace" is also identified with the gate of Gehenna). Opinions also vary as to the situation, extent, and nature of hell. The statement that Gehenna is situated in the valley of Hinnom near Jerusalem, in the "accursed valley" (Enoch, xxvii. 1 et seq.), means simply that it has a gate there. It was in Zion, and had a gate in Jerusalem (Isa. xxxi. 9). It had three gates, one in the wilderness, one in the sea, and one in Jerusalem ('Er. 19a). The gate lies between two palm-trees in the valley of Hinnom, from which smoke is continually rising (ib.).

Because of the extent of Gehenna the sun, on setting in the evening, passes by it, and receives from it its own fire (evening glow; B. B. 84a). A fiery stream ("dinur") falls upon the head of the sinner in Gehenna (hag. 13b).

There is a smell of sulfur in Gehenna (Enoch, lxvii. 6). This agrees with the Greek idea of hell (Lucian, Αληθεις Ιστοριαι, i. 29, in Dietrich, "Abraxas," p. 36). The sulfurous smell of the Tiberian medicinal springs was ascribed to their connection with Gehenna. In Isa. lxvi. 16, 24 it is said that God judges by means of fire.

Gehenna is dark in spite of the immense masses of fire; it is like night (Yeb. 109b; comp. Job x. 22). The same idea also occurs in Enoch, x. 4, lxxxii. 2; Matt. viii. 12, xxii. 13, xxv. 30 (comp. Schwally, l.c. p. 176).

It is assumed that there is an angel-prince in charge of Gehenna. He says to God: "Put everything into my sea; nourish me with the seed of Seth; I am hungry." But God refuses his request, telling him to take the heathen peoples (Shab. 104). God says to the angel-prince: "I punish the slanderers from above, and I also punish them from below with glowing coals" ('Ar. 15b).

Judgment.

It is assumed in general that sinners go to hell immediately after their death. The famous teacher Johanan b. Zakkai wept before his death because he did not know whether he would go to paradise or to hell (Ber. 28b). The pious go to paradise, and sinners to hell (B.M. 83b). To every individual is apportioned two shares, one in hell and one in paradise. At death, however, the righteous man's portion in hell is exchanged, so that he has two in heaven, while the reverse is true in the case of sinners (hag. 15a). Hence it would have been better for the latter not to have lived at all (Yeb. 63b).

They are cast into Gehenna to a depth commensurate with their sinfulness. They say: "Lord of the world, Thou hast done well; Paradise for the pious, Gehenna for the wicked" ('Er. 19a). There are three categories of men; the wholly pious and the arch-sinners are not purified, but only those between these two classes (Ab. R. N. 41). A similar view is expressed in the Babylonian Talmud, which adds that those who have sinned themselves but have not led others into sin remain for twelve months in Gehenna; "after twelve months their bodies are destroyed, their souls are burned, and the wind strews the ashes under the feet of the pious. But as regards the heretics, etc., and Jeroboam, Nebat's son, hell shall pass away, but they shall not pass away" (R. H. 17a; comp. Shab. 33b). All that descend into Gehenna shall come up again, with the exception of three classes of men: those who have committed adultery, or shamed their neighbors, or vilified them (B. M. 58b).

As mentioned above, heretics and the Roman oppressors go to Gehenna, and the same fate awaits the Persians, the oppressors of the Babylonian Jews (Ber. 8b). When Nebuchadnezzar descended into hell, all its inhabitants were afraid that he was coming to rule over them (Shab. 149a; comp. Isa. xiv. 9-10). The Book of Enoch also says that it is chiefly the heathen who are to be cast into the fiery pool on the Day of Judgment (x. 6, xci. 9, et al.). " The Lord, the Almighty, will punish them on the Day of Judgment by putting fire and worms into their flesh, so that they cry out with pain unto all eternity" (Judith xvi. 17). (see image) Valley of Ge-Hinnom.(From a photograph by Bonfils.) The sinners in Gehenna will be filled with pain when God puts back the souls into the dead bodies on the Day of Judgment, according to Isa. xxxiii. 11 (Sanh. 108b). Enoch also holds (xlviii. 9) that the sinners will disappear like chaff before the faces of the elect. There will be no Gehenna in the future world, however, for God will take the sun out of its case, and it will heal the pious with its rays and will punish the sinners (Ned. 8b).

Copyright 2002 JewishEncyclopedia.com. All rights reserved.

http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=115&letter=G
​

I can not make heads or tails out of this mess. Some of the things being talked about are nothing more than Jewish speculation. The rest looks like a bunch of kabbalistic rubbish.
I am not a Pagan, Gnostic, or a believer in Kabbalah. Perhaps if you re edit it I may be able read it.

 

[MamaZ]

We do not worship a God who is without mercy. Torturing people for all eternity is a sign of a sick mind.

We worship a God who is Holy and has given His son. For those whom do not believe they are judged already. We also worship a God who has wrath. A sick mind is one who tries to bring God down to human standards instead of coming to know Him as He really is.

 

[MamaZ]

Wrong: The word "Heaven" literally means "place-s."

There is also a second death for those whom are raised in the second ressurection. They are the ones that will be judged by their works.

 

[wayseer]

Only the "Elect" go to heaven. Scripture says that the punishment for sin is death.

Are we not all sinners?

 

[MamaZ]

Our scriptures are full of Parables, and the word "fire" is often used to mean judgment. The words sea, ocean, rivers, streams, waters and lake are used to mean peoples.
Because Christians forget about the parables being used it becomes very difficult to discuss many subjects because they are being to literal. Yahshua said to his disciples: How foolish of you to believe everything the prophets have said. That is because they were not taking into consideration that parables were being used.

This is not a parable in Revelation. This is a revelation.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]I can not make heads or tails out of this mess. Some of the things being talked about are nothing more than Jewish speculation. The rest looks like a bunch of kabbalistic rubbish.
I am not a Pagan, Gnostic, or a believer in Kabbalah. Perhaps if you re edit it I may be able read it.[/SIZE]

There is nothing to reedit. It is a direct quote from an encyclopedia. If you cannot read an encylopedia article, I don't know how to help you. I have highlighted certain portions, to emphasize the points I am making. This is the same post of which you claimed

[SIZE=-1]Some of your quotes are Gnostic scripture. Hell was introduced to the Jews. It was not a teaching of Judaism originally.

If you read it and understood it enough to make this claim, then you should be able to understand it enough to comprehend what it is saying now. If the highlights bother you, the entire article, of which this is only part, can be read at the link, without highlights.

Once again there is nothing Gnostic in this article, There is nothing from the Kabbal, there is nothing pagan. From the time that Moses delivered the law, this is what Judaism understood about the place of eternal punishment God prepared for those who reject him. I have highlighted the scriptures in blue.

This is credible, verifiable, historical evidence, OTOH all you have given me is your unsupported assumptions/presuppositions and some vague references to Jewish speculation, kabbalistic rubbish, Pagan, Gnostic, Kabbalah, etc., etc.[/SIZE]

 

[GuardianShua]

We worship a God who is Holy and has given His son. For those whom do not believe they are judged already. We also worship a God who has wrath. A sick mind is one who tries to bring God down to human standards instead of coming to know Him as He really is.

Believing that Yahwah has no mercy for the condemned make Him less than a man. However, believing that He is a merciful God toward the condemned make Him divine. Since the word "Sheol" means "grave," then that is what we should believe. Since Yahwah destroys the condemned by means of death, then how is it that there is life in hell. The word Hell contradicts what scripture says, but the word grave does not.

 

[GuardianShua]

There is nothing to reedit. It is a direct quote from an encyclopedia. If you cannot read an encylopedia article, I don't know how to help you. I have highlighted certain portions, to emphasize the points I am making. This is the same post of which you claimed

If you read it and understood it enough to make this claim, then you should be able to understand it enough to comprehend what it is saying now. If the highlights bother you, the entire article, of which this is only part, can be read at the link, without highlights.

Once again there is nothing Gnostic in this article, There is nothing from the Kabbal, there is nothing pagan. From the time that Moses delivered the law, this is what Judaism understood about the place of eternal punishment God prepared for those who reject him. I have highlighted the scriptures in blue.

This is credible, verifiable, historical evidence, OTOH all you have given me is your unsupported assumptions/presuppositions and some vague references to Jewish speculation, kabbalistic rubbish, Pagan, Gnostic, Kabbalah, etc., etc.

I going to pass on making any comments on it, because it is to much trouble for me to do research on it. When ever I copied parts to do an Internet search; I was lead to Pagan, Gnostic, and Kabbalah websites. Forget it.

 

[GuardianShua]

This is not a parable in Revelation. This is a revelation.

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show to His bond-servants, the things which must soon take place; and He sent and communicated it by His angel to His bond-servant John,

Having a spirit of discernment means that a person knows the difference between what is literal and what is parabolic.

 

[GuardianShua]

There is also a second death for those whom are raised in the second Resurrection. They are the ones that will be judged by their works.

Your statement here, is correct. I agree.

 

[GuardianShua]

Are we not all sinners?

We are all sinners, but there is forgiveness for the repentant who keep the commandments.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Having a spirit of discernment means that a person knows the difference between what is literal and what is parabolic.

and I suppose you believe you have it while those of use who disagree with you don't, right?

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]I going to pass on making any comments on it, because it is to much trouble for me to do research on it. When ever I copied parts to do an Internet search; I was lead to Pagan, Gnostic, and Kabbalah websites. Forget it.[/SIZE]

Does this mean you cannot respond to the historical evidence I posted, which cited scripture, that from the time of Moses, the ancient Jews, understood that God had prepared a place of eternal punishment for those who reject him? The only sources listed in the article are O.T. scriptures and Talmud, which is the historical Jewish interpretation of those scripture.

 

[GuardianShua]

and I suppose you believe you have it while those of use who disagree with you don't, right?

I think most of us have that ability, more or less.

 

[GuardianShua]

Does this mean you cannot respond to the historical evidence I posted, which cited scripture, that from the time of Moses, the ancient Jews, understood that God had prepared a place of eternal punishment for those who reject him? The only sources listed in the article are O.T. scriptures and Talmud, which is the historical Jewish interpretation of those scripture.

You have a bunch of things mixed together. Just give me scripture, and in your own words ask a question.

 

[GuardianShua]

Does this mean you cannot respond to the historical evidence I posted, which cited scripture, that from the time of Moses, the ancient Jews, understood that God had prepared a place of eternal punishment for those who reject him? The only sources listed in the article are O.T. scriptures and Talmud, which is the historical Jewish interpretation of those scripture.

I am not interest in Hellenistic commentary.

The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh.

 

[Katholish]

MichaelTheeArchAngel,

Your entire notion is built upon the premise that the human soul is not by nature immortal. This is the point of departure between your position and everyone else's (those who hold to a traditional Christian understanding).

It is not possible for the soul to be a mortal thing. Immaterial things cannot perish, only material things can die. The soul is immaterial, hence it is immortal.

Are you dusputing that the soul is immaterial?

 

[Der Alte]

[SIZE=-1]You have a bunch of things mixed together. Just give me scripture, and in your own words ask a question.[/SIZE]

I presented evidence that Jews from the time of Moses believed in a literal hell. I posted their beliefs and supporting scripture. The scriptures are clearly marked. My posting scriptures would NOT prove what the Jews believe. If you cannot read and understand what I posted, a simple encyclopedia article, I can't help you. But I think this is just a ploy, to avoid replying, because I have presented indisputable evidence that your belief that hell is not Biblical, is false.

[SIZE=-1]I am not interest in Hellenistic commentary.

The Talmud has two components: the Mishnah (c. 200 CE), the first written compendium of Judaism's Oral Law; and the Gemara (c. 500 CE), a discussion of the Mishnah and related Tannaitic writings that often ventures onto other subjects and expounds broadly on the Tanakh.

There is NO, ZERO, NONE Hellenistic commentary anywhere in my post. What is the source for the dates you posted?[/SIZE]