There is no hell.

[GuardianShua]

What is your view of that second death shown in Revelation?

Reve 2:11 The one having an ear, let hear! what the spirit is saying to the Outcalleds. The one conquering not no may be being injured out of the Death, the Second

Reve 21:8 To the yet timids and unfaithfuls and abominables and murderers and prostituters and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false-ones, the part of them in the lake, the one burning to fire and sulphur, which is the Death the second.

The first death is the death of the body, and the second death is that of the spirit. A spirit who is condemned to death is cut off from the living for all eternity, their fire (judgment) never dies. (never stops.)

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The first death is the death of the body, and the second death is that of the spirit. A spirit who is condemned to death is cut off from the living for all eternity, their fire (judgment) never dies. (never stops.)

Ummm...and exactly how do you define hell?

 

[GuardianShua]

Ummm...and exactly how do you define hell?

The words grave and pit were replaced with the word hell.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

So let me get this straight. You believe that a spirit that dies as an unbeliever faces eternal fire (judgment), yet you don't believe in the word hell.

So basically this argument comes down to semantics? Or am I missing something here?

 

[GuardianShua]

So let me get this straight. You believe that a spirit that dies as an unbeliever faces eternal fire (judgment), yet you don't believe in the word hell.

So basically this argument comes down to semantics? Or am I missing something here?

Our scriptures use many parabolic words. Hell is simply not a true scriptural teaching. The final death is the death of the spirit. Hell is part of the Pagan religion. It does not belong in the religion of Judaism and Christianity. Joining paganism to Yahwah is a sin.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Okay, so regardless of the word being used here...

You believe that unbelieving spirits die in eternal judgment. What exactly does God during this judgment? Wag his fingers at them and say "no no no"?

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Okay, so regardless of the word being used here...

You believe that unbelieving spirits die in eternal judgment. What exactly does God during this judgment? Wag his fingers at them and say "no no no"?

In some sense yes as they are also trying to hide in caves from His face of Judgement...

Reve 6:16 And they are saying to the mountains and to the rocks "be falling on us! and hide us! from Face of the One-sitting on the Throne and from the wrath of the lambkin

Reve 20:11 And I saw a Throne, great white and the One sitting on it of whom from Face fled the land and the heaven. And place not was found to them.

 

[GuardianShua]

Okay, so regardless of the word being used here...

You believe that unbelieving spirits die in eternal judgment. What exactly does God during this judgment? Wag his fingers at them and say "no no no"?

I do not know of any scripture that is explicit in how God does away with them. I do know that it is an act of God that we are called back into being, and I do know that he takes away the life of those who are condemned.

 

[wayseer]

So, it would therefore follow, no one goes to hell. We all go to heaven.

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

I do not know of any scripture that is explicit in how God does away with them. I do know that it is an act of God that we are called back into being, and I do know that he takes away the life of those who are condemned.

Well first there would have to be an earthly destruction then a raising up of them at the white throne where the final judgement is.
Notice what Paul says here to those who wrest/twist the Scriptures. That same form of the word "destroy" is used for that Beast in Revelation.....Fascinating!

2Peter 3:16 As also in all the letters speaking in them about these-things in which is difficult to understand who-any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rests of Writings toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]

Reve 17:8 The beast which you perceived was, and not is, and is being about to be ascending out of the abyss, and into destruction/apwleian <684> it is going away.

 

[GuardianShua]

So, it would therefore follow, no one goes to hell. We all go to heaven.

Only the "Elect" go to heaven. Scripture says that the punishment for sin is death. Now if there is "death" for the condemed; then how can there be a hell for eternal punishment.
We do not worship a God who is without mercy.

 

[GuardianShua]

Well first there would have to be an earthly destruction then a raising up of them at the white throne where the final judgement is.
Notice what Paul says here to those who wrest/twist the Scriptures. That same form of the word "destroy" is used for that Beast in Revelation.....Fascinating!

2Peter 3:16 As also in all the letters speaking in them about these-things in which is difficult to understand who-any which the un-learned and un-steadfast are wresting/twisting as also the rests of Writings toward the own of them destruction/apwleian <684>. [# 684 used reve 17:8, 11]

Reve 17:8 The beast which you perceived was, and not is, and is being about to be ascending out of the abyss, and into destruction/apwleian <684> it is going away.

That is correct. The messengers who are called angels are men. And the men who are messengers who twist scripture are condemned to death by God.

 

[Gary51]

I "Googled" "Hell" and all I found available were mythological "definitions" in the folklore of many different cultures. It seems that any clear universal definition of "Hell" doesn't even exist. Your definition of "Hell" apparently depends on which culture you prefer: Islam, Buddist, Christian, Hindu, Baha'i etc.

Here's the best info I could find on the origin of the Old English word "Hell." It basically means "concealed, "hidden" and/or "covered."
=============================
The old Old Norse word Hel derives from Proto-Germanic *khalija, which means "one who covers up or hides something", which itself derives from Proto-Indo-European kel-, meaning "conceal". The term may have later spawned the English word Hell. Related terms are Old Frisian helle, German Hölle and Gothic halja.
=============================


But let's face it, in 1611 when the King James Bible was translated, "Hell" was extremely popular with the Church as a means of frightening reprobates of all types into church attendance and financial support. It had many good practical uses for both the Church and government in THIS life. A very "handy tool" to fleece and manipulate the ignorant masses, not to mention scaring many into "the arms of Jesus." It's easy to see how the church could/can justify using the very vague word "Hell" instead of the correct translation of the original Hebrew and Greek words. After all, just look how many heathen it has saved, not to mention all the believers it scares into regular church attendance.

So the question remains: Why couldn't the King James translators just translate the original Greek and Hebrew words correctly instead of using a completely vague mythological word "defined" only by different cultures? Maybe the correct translations of the original Greek and Hebrew words wouldn't have been scary enough to suit the Church's purposes?

Just imagine the liberating effect the following verse would have had on the ignorant massses in 1611:
=============================
1Ti 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially (but not exclusively) of those that believe. (parentheses and bolding are my own).
=============================


Come to think of it, maybe "Hell" isn't really an inappropriate word after all. Because the Church did/does use it to "cover," "conceal" and "hide" God's goodness, practicality, and kindness, not to mention Christ's thoroughness in taking ALL the punishment and wrath of God that man deserved:
============================
Hbr 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.

 

[MamaZ]

Has anyone read about the second death?
Rev 2:11
Rev 20:6
Rev 20:14
Rev 21:8

 

[GuardianShua]

I "Googled" "Hell" and all I found available were mythological "definitions" in the folklore of many different cultures. It seems that any clear universal definition of "Hell" doesn't even exist. Your definition of "Hell" apparently depends on which culture you prefer: Islam, Buddist, Christian, Hindu, Baha'i etc.

Good work on your post.

 

[GuardianShua]

Has anyone read about the second death?
Rev 2:11
Rev 20:6
Rev 20:14
Rev 21:8

Our scriptures are full of Parables, and the word "fire" is often used to mean judgment. The words sea, ocean, rivers, streams, waters and lake are used to mean peoples.
Because Christians forget about the parables being used it becomes very difficult to discuss many subjects because they are being to literal. Yahshua said to his disciples: How foolish of you to believe everything the prophets have said. That is because they were not taking into consideration that parables were being used.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Jesus always made it known when he was using a parable to illustrate a point.

 

[GuardianShua]

Jesus always made it known when he was using a parable to illustrate a point.

We are not always told when a parable is being used. And so a spirit of discernment is required.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

We are not always told when a parable is being used. And so a spirit of discernment is required.

No, actually, it was quite clear when a parable was being used.

 

[GuardianShua]

No, actually, it was quite clear when a parable was being used.

I am talking about the entire bible, not just Yahshua's parables.