There is no hell.

[GuardianShua]

I am taking a vacation from the forum everyone, and I do not know when I will be back. I just wanted to say Good bye for now.

 

[GuardianShua]

Are we done with this thread?

 

[ke1985]

That makes it seem like unbelievers get off VERY easy, then.

Surely if I was an unbeliever I'd rather die and just stay dead rather than face eternal torment in a fiery place.

Its like you want unbelievers to suffer. I don't believe in hell either and a lot of non christians will tell you that non existence is difficult to think about.

 

[ke1985]

http://www.2001translation.com/Hell.htm

 

[JacktheCatholic]

Its like you want unbelievers to suffer. I don't believe in hell either and a lot of non christians will tell you that non existence is difficult to think about.

I know the most churches teach there is a Hell.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Its like you want unbelievers to suffer. I don't believe in hell either and a lot of non christians will tell you that non existence is difficult to think about.

No, I don't want unbelievers to suffer, otherwise I'd just shut my mouth and hang out with other Christians all the time.

Why would non-existence be difficult to think about? Live the life you want, no worries, and then POOF. Nothing. What's there not to like? Even for Christians that's a tempting notion.

Which is exactly why the devil wishes to purport the idea that there is no hell. He is the Father of Lies and he'll do and say anything to increase his numbers.

What is that quote about the devil? Something about the greatest thing he's done is get people to believe that he doesn't exist. Same principle.

 

[GuardianShua]

No, I don't want unbelievers to suffer, otherwise I'd just shut my mouth and hang out with other Christians all the time.

Why would non-existence be difficult to think about? Live the life you want, no worries, and then POOF. Nothing. What's there not to like? Even for Christians that's a tempting notion.

Which is exactly why the devil wishes to purport the idea that there is no hell. He is the Father of Lies and he'll do and say anything to increase his numbers.

What is that quote about the devil? Something about the greatest thing he's done is get people to believe that he doesn't exist. Same principle.

I would think that people would want to live and not die. Besides that, before they do die, they will know it, and there will be great mental anguish. It does not sound like a good plan to me.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I would think that people would want to live and not die. Besides that, before they do die, they will know it, and there will be great mental anguish. It does not sound like a good plan to me.

How do you know there will be great mental anguish?

And even that will end. If unbelievers are simply killed and never heard from again, they're certainly not going to remember any mental anguish.

 

[Gary51]

How do you know there will be great mental anguish?

Because we are told, "There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

 

[ThomasDa]

PW2004, The god you worship is a sadistic evil monster. The God of the Bible is a God of love, not one that could cause you extreme pain FOREVER!
Eternal life is a gift from God. The wages of sin is death.
There is nothing you can do in this life to earn eternal life; in a good place or in a bad place.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

PW2004, The god you worship is a sadistic evil monster. The God of the Bible is a God of love, not one that could cause you extreme pain FOREVER!
Eternal life is a gift from God. The wages of sin is death.
There is nothing you can do in this life to earn eternal life; in a good place or in a bad place.

I worship the Christian God of the Bible. Perhaps you are reading a different version of the bible?

God doesn't cause that pain. People with their unbelief do.

 

[ThomasDa]

So you don't believe the God of the Bible is in control of everything.That is sad.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The WELS Q&A often explains things much better than I ever can:



To explain the doctrine of hell you need to point people to the passages in the Bible that speak about hell. It is described as a place of torment that will never end, prepared for the devil and his angels. There unbelievers will spend eternity. (Isaiah 64:24, Matthew 3:12, Matthew 13:42, Matthew 25:41, Matthew 5:29-30, 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9, Jude 7, 2 Peter 2:4, Luke 16:19-31, Mark 9:43-48).



Unless people understand the law which reveals the depths of human sinfulness and God's righteous wrath over sin, they will have difficulty grasping a place of eternal punishment. You might want to review what God says in Romans 1:18-1:16 and Romans 3:9-20. Make sure also to remember God's salvation, his plan of deliverance through faith in his Son Jesus whom he offered up as a sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not only for ours but for the sins of the whole world (Romans 3:21-28, 2 Corinthians 5:18-21, 1 John 2:2). If a person understands the depths of his sinfulness and the punishment he deserves, he will more readily grasp the depths of God's love in offering his Son for our salvation. A proper understanding of the law and the gospel is important for a correct understanding of hell and heaven.


The Bible uses more than one term for hell. The Hebrew word sheol is can mean the grave, the realm of the dead, or hell (e.g., see Psalm 139:8--the NIV does not translate sheol as hell in this passgae but other translations do and that seems to be what the psalmist meant). The context will determine its meaning. The Greek Septuagint used the word hades to translate the Hebrew word sheol. The word hades, like the word sheol, can have more than one meaning--context will determine the meaning. The Greek word Tartarus, a term taken from Greek mythology, is used only once in the New Testament (2 Peter 2:4). The Holy Spirit moved Peter to choose this term as a name for hell. The Greek word Gehenna is consistently used as a name for hell. Gehenna was the Valley of Hinnom south of Jerusalem where the wicked had sacrificed their own children. The Old Testament uses this name for the place where God will punish the wicked (Jeremiah 7:32, 19:6-7).

Some of the links are a little goofed up because of the formatting.

 

[ThomasDa]

The punishment of the incorrigibly wicked is eternal death (that is, to never live again) not eternal life being tortured.

Examples of what happens to the incorrigibly wicked can be read in many places in the Bible.

Ro.6:23 and Jo.3:16 say much the same thing.
Ro.6:23 For the wages of sin is death, BUT the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jo.3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish BUT have everlasting life. Notice that DEATH or PERISHING is spoken of in contrast to eternal LIFE! Death or perishing is not speaking about life some where else doing something else. Notice also that eternal life is God’s gift. It is not something that we are born with! If God does not give us eternal life we can not get it for ourselves.

Before we read Ezk.18:4,20 we need to go back to Genesis. A misunderstanding of the word “soul” is at the crux of much of this misunderstanding. The word translated soul in Gen.2:7 is “Nephesh” (neh’-fesh) the word means a living creature, not something in us, that has its own life apart from us. The first time the word is used in the Bible is Gen.1:21 and is speaking about whales and other animals. This word is continually used to refer to animals of every kind. A few examples can be found in Gen.1:21,24 2:19, 9:10 and on and on. When it is used in Gen.2:7, man becomes a (nephesh) a living creature or a living soul. Man is not given a “nephesh,” he is one.

So now that we understand what a soul is and what it is not we can begin to understand Ezk.18:4 “ Behold, all souls are Mine; The soul of the father As well as the soul of the son is Mine; The soul who sins shall die. And again in verse 20 The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.

Malachi 4speaks to the time when the wicked shall be destroyed.
1“For behold, the day is coming, Burning like an oven, And all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up,” “That will leave them neither root nor branch. [That is total annihilation] Now read verse 3.
“You shall trample the wicked, For they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet
On the day that I do this,” Says the LORD of hosts.

Jesus speaks of this event in Mat.25:32-33,41 32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats. 33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Verse 41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire ...We just read what happens when these wicked souls end up in this fire Mal.4

In Revelation 20:6 we read that “Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power... So the second death does have power over some. That second death is forever, eternal, ETERNAL DEATH.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

So you don't believe the God of the Bible is in control of everything.That is sad.

Oh I believe He's in control of everything. I also believe that He, in no uncertain terms, has said that if you do not believe you will end up in hell where there is eternal suffering.

We love our children, and we discipline when they have done wrong. To what a larger scale would it be to not believe in God then? Rejecting the Holy Spirit is the unforgivable sin.

Just because our human minds can't wrap around why anyone would give that kind of punishment doesn't mean that God can't do it.

This is one matter of "God said it, I believe it, case closed." You can choose to ignore the words, but it doesn't change the warning.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

The second death = spiritual death = separation from God = hell

 

[ThomasDa]

You didn't even read my last post did you?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

You didn't even read my last post did you?

Yes I did. Did you read mine?

 

[Stryder06]

The second death = spiritual death = separation from God = hell

This is partly right, seperation from God is hell, but it is also a physical death. Christ tells us not to fear he who can destroy the body but He who can destroy the body and soul in hell. (paraphrase)

There is no eternal burning and suffering of those who burn in hell's fire. We will tread over their ashes as the bible says. They will be no more. One way to think of it is like this, (besides TD's point that should sinners burn forever they too would have eternal life, and since eternal life is given only unto those who will be saved we can derive that the wicked will die) hell's fire will utterly consume the wicked by bringin an end to sin and sinners. There can be no end of sin and sinners if they are still around.

The wicked are not destroyed until after they are judged, and than fire comes down from heaven and burns them up while simultaneously cleansing the earth.

This is the problem with the doctrin of the immortality of the soul. It allows for people to view God as a tyrant because of such punishment as eternally burning in hell.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

What is the point of eternal exile if the person can't experience it because they're gone?

Everything the bible says points to eternal damnation, eternal separation...these mean nothing if the person can't experience it.

You guys are ignoring key verses that speaks of this in your efforts to try to make God look like something he's not thinking that will fill the pews.