There has to be something more diabolical going on

JohnB445

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?
 

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?
There is a war happening in the spirit realm between darkness and light, evil and good, life and death, God and satan. God wins! Hallelujah!
 
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EJ M

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?
Satan has been trying to annihilate the Jews for millennia, without success.
Read Romans 9- 10 and 11 for the Lord's plan for His people.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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There has to be something more diabolical going on

Like the energizer bunny, the Devil keeps on truckin'.........

1 Peter 5:8
Be sober, vigilant, because your opponent the Devil<1228 diabolos> as a roaring lion doth walk about, seeking whom he may swallow up,

..................



.
 
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BABerean2

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

You seem to be promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24 the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.


.
 
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JohnB445

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You seem to be promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine, which John Nelson Darby brought to America about the time of the Civil War.

Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24 the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.


.

They are not in the New Covenant because they rejected Christ.

Quote From my original post "Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim."

Who are the 144,000 from the 12 tribes? And what ends up happening to them?
 
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BABerean2

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They are not in the New Covenant because they rejected Christ.

You seem to have missed how Peter addressed the crowd on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

You also have to ignore Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, to make your doctrine work.
Notice the word "now" in both passages.


The Church has not replaced Israel.
Instead, part of Israel became the Church, as revealed by Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 9:27, and Romans 11:1-5.

The 144,000 are found in James 1:1-3, as "the twelve tribes", who were his "brethren" in the "faith".
 
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JohnB445

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You seem to have missed how Peter addressed the crowd on the Day of Pentecost.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Act 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
Act 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

When the Church began almost all of its members were Israelites.
The Gentiles were grafted in several years later.

You also have to ignore Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, to make your doctrine work.
Notice the word "now" in both passages.



.

Are you assuming I believe that Jews will be saved regardless if they reject Christ?

Without Christ, no one can be saved.
 
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jgr

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?

The Church and the 144,000

Revelation 7:3-4 describe the 144,000 as “sealed.” That description is reserved in the NT for believers in Christ – His Body and Bride – the Church:

2 Corinthians 1:21-22
Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and anointed us is God, who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

Ephesians 1:13
In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30
Do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption.


The Revelation 7 passage is therefore conveying the insight that the OT Israelitish faithful saints of God are included under the NT banner of the Church. This is further confirmed by the meanings of the names of the listed tribes and substitutes (Levi and Joseph replacing Dan and Ephraim), describing spiritual qualities and experiences of those who comprise the Church:
Of additional significance is the order in which the names are presented, differing from the usual presentation by order of birth. In particular, Judah appears first, in recognition of its role as the tribal progenitor of Christ, the Lion of Judah.

While rebellion and apostasy were repetitive afflictions of the OT Israelites, there were still thousands who remained faithful (1 Kings 19:18). Their number is depicted as 12, a scriptural value representing faithfulness; multiplied by 12, representing the faithful from each of the twelve tribes; multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number (Psalms 50:10; Psalms 91:7; Revelation 5:11) of the total faithful in Israel; thus, 144,000.

Revelation 14 continues the descriptions further reflecting the qualities and experiences of the redeemed – the Church. Absent here is any mention of tribal, ethnic, or other distinctions, thus conveying the reality of the inclusivity and oneness of the NT Church which now embraces both Israelite and Gentile. Its number can also be depicted as 12, representing faithfulness; multipled by 12 representing the 12 faithful apostles, who with the prophets comprise the foundation of the NT church, with Christ as the Chief Cornerstone (Ephesians 2:20); multiplied by 1,000 representing the indeterminate but large number of the total faithful in the NT Church; thus, also 144,000.

The NT Church's inclusivity and oneness are declared in the following:

Galatians 3:28
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:14
For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall…

Colossians 3:11
Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.


The 144,00 are described as celibate, meaning that as the Bride of Christ, they are not defiled by adultery with the world (James 4:4). They sing a new song of deliverance and victory. They follow Christ wherever He goes. Their residence is heavenly Jerusalem on Mount Zion. (Hebrews 12:22)

No doubt about it…the Church is written all over the 144,000
 
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OldWiseGuy

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The 144,000 is/are the Bride. The rest of the church are called the "friends of the Bridegroom". Just as Rebekah was chosen by Abraham to be Isaac's wife so too those physical descendants of Israel were/will be chosen by God to become the bride of Christ.
 
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parousia70

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Are you assuming I believe that Jews will be saved regardless if they reject Christ?

Without Christ, no one can be saved.

I'm wondering what you think constitutes a "Jew" in God's eyes?
 
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parousia70

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The 144,000 from the 12 tribes of Isreal. The Elect that will be saved from tribulation.


So genetics then is How you believe God makes that distinction?
 
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parousia70

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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal.

He sent Jesus. Proving He didn't give up on anybody, did He?

People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel.

Can you name one of these "People of Jacob" that you speak of?
 
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JohnB445

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He sent Jesus. Proving He didn't give up on anybody, did He?


He's coming back to defeat the Anti-Christ that deceived the people of Jacob. Then the 144,000 whoever the elect happen to be will be redeemed. 144,000 seems to be coming from the 12 tribes of Isreal.

People of Jacob are the 144,000 from the 12 tribes. Tribulation is about Jacobs trouble. With the epicenter of tribulation being in Israel.
 
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I don't believe that God completely gave up Jews or Isreal. I think there is a future plan and the 144,000 from the 12 tribes are the lucky people of Isreal that will be saved. Don't mistake this as me saying all Jews will be saved for simply being Jewish because that is not my claim. People of Jacob need the Gospel just as much as Muslims and atheists need the Gospel. The 144,000 from the 12 tribes the Elect still need to believe in their messiah.

For centuries people tried to exterminate the Jews, why? Because God has a plan for them. It seems apparently so.

What is replacement theology / supersessionism?



Who is jesus speaking to in this verse?

Matthew 10:23 KJV: But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.

Jesus seems to be speaking to a specific group of people located in the land of israel.
 
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