There could be a heaven or a hell you don't know what you don't know.

[Davian]

The possibility of an afterlife is real and I base it on what you hear from theists and the bible.

So all you need are claims to establish possibilities?

Do you worry about being abducted by extraterrestrial aliens? According to a citation on wiki, an estimated 5 to 6 percent of the general population have been abducted by extraterrestrial aliens visiting Earth.

While some might find this compelling, I have not yet taken precautions to reduce the chance of myself or my family from being abducted during the night.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_abduction

 

[Davian]

There is an afterlife, and it's Vahalla. Everyone who doesn't die in glorious battle is screwed.

Do really intense internet discussions count? Or does it actually have to kill you?

 

[Nithavela]

Do really intense internet discussions count? Or does it actually have to kill you?

You actually have to die. But I guess a heart attack from reading an extremely stupid post might be enough.

 

[Davian]

You actually have to die. But I guess a heart attack from reading an extremely stupid post might be enough.

lol.

I have had some close calls then.

 

[Nithavela]

lol.

I have had some close calls then.

You have certainly come to the right place.

 

[SamuelTP1977]

I am glad to hear you do not think of religious beliefs as delusions. Maybe you think of them as misguided but you could be wrong, there could be a heaven.

Think of the movie Miracles From Heaven. In it there is a little girl who has a rare disorder and can't process food, she is a christian and believes in Jesus and is not afraid to die. She sees doctors and tries to get healed using modern medicine but there is nothing that can cure her. She climbs a tree with a friend and this tree branch almost breaks and she falls in the tree that is hollow. The fire company comes out and pulls her out of the tree and she is cured of her rare disorder. Also she had an out of body experience while in the tree and imagines floating in the air to a wonderful place. She then sees a bright light and she can talk to it just by like mental telapathy they use no words. She thought she was talking to God and it told her to go back to your parents, she wanted to stay and the light said you won't have that eating disorder any more. So, she left and witnessed to the church that she belongs to.

It was a great movie based on a true story. So you never know really, this isn't like math or science it is really mysterious and I hope you can see there are good reasons to be more spiritual.

Hang in there,

Sam

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The possibility of an afterlife is real and I base it on what you hear from theists and the bible.

And what do you think they base it on? What if they also base it on what they hear from other theists and the bible? a self-reinforcing group who have a book isn't necessarily a reliable guide to reality - as has been shown many times for many different groups.

When I say the possibilities of an afterlife are very real as opposed to real, I feel that Jesus could have come back from the dead and there could be a heaven or a hell like the Bible says. It could have happened and is a very real possibility, not like kind of sort of real.

What makes you think that, other than other people saying so?

To say we are more than sophisticated animals does have to deal with an afterlife because it suggests we have an immortal soul unlike other animals...

What makes you think that we are more than sophisticated animals? and if we are more than sophisticated animals, why does that suggest we have an immortal soul? is it because other people say so?

... I don't think billions of theists are wrong about their being an afterlife. Another option is theists are all wrong, but you can't know that it is a huge mystery...

If you can't know, why do you think theists are right?

Yes it might just be wishful thinking, but you still can't rule it out.

So should we provisionally accept all wishful thinking that we can't 'rule out'? If not, why not? How do you decide what can be ruled out and what can't?

...one cannot discount all the interesting personal experiences people have had. Especially those recorded in the bible.

People have all kinds of interesting personal experiences that don't correspond to events in external reality. Some of them write such experiences in books. We don't discount them, we acknowledge that they probably had those experiences, but we don't necessarily accept that they were of real events. And why should we take those recorded in books more seriously than others? Does writing an experience down make it more likely to be real?

Can you not see that the fact that a lot of other people believe what you believe, or would like to believe, is not a reliable guide to its validity, nor is the fact that it's written in a book, however old? Human history is a long story of groups of people with their own beliefs, often based on books, disagreeing with or being supplanted by other groups of people with different beliefs often based on books. Each thought their own group was right, but none could demonstrate why. What makes you think your group is right?

“From now on I'm thinking only of me."

Major Danby replied indulgently with a superior smile: "But, Yossarian, suppose everyone felt that way."

"Then," said Yossarian, "I'd certainly be a damned fool to feel any other way, wouldn't I?”

 

[Freodin]

I feel the possibility of an afterlife is very real. Perhaps we are nothing more than sophisticated animals, but that isn't knowable. Think about the billions of people who believe in a higher power of some kind. Even Albert Einstein and Newton. Are all these people brain dead or is there something to it?

Metaphysics is not knowable that is some weird stuff once you start going down that road. Keep hope alive and try to be open minded is my best advice take it for what it is worth.

Sincerely,

Sam

Are you simply trying to free your preferred viewpoint from scrutiny, or do you have a point with this?

 

[11god11]

There is an afterlife, and it's Vahalla. Everyone who doesn't die in glorious battle is screwed.

respect

There is an afterlife, and it's Vahalla. Everyone who doesn't die in glorious battle is screwed.

what do you base that on.What happens when we don't die in glorious battle?

 

[Nithavela]

respect

what do you base that on.What happens when we don't die in glorious battle?

I base it on the Edda.

If you don't die in glorious battle, you get sent to Hel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(location)

 

[11god11]

Ive never heard of that,that sounds interesting

 

[11god11]

I base it on the Edda.

If you don't die in glorious battle, you get sent to Hel.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hel_(location)

It amazes me just how many different forms of hell and beleifs there are.Is it Viking because they have interested me in the past

 

[Nithavela]

It amazes me just how many different forms of hell and beleifs there are.Is it Viking because they have interested me in the past

It is germanic, of which the danes (who are often called vikings) were a part.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I don't think this is a 'fair' comment - the two situations are not really that similar. This is the problem with these analogies (including the teapot and the flying spaghetti monster) - they are perhaps born of the germ of a reasonable critique but then they completely go overboard.

Of course there is no evidence for an afterlife (or at best, there is exceedingly slim evidence). But given the fundamentally mysterious nature of existence - no one, I suggest, can give a satisfying account of why the universe exists - I suggest that belief in an afterlife is in the category of "the possible".

Using that "reasoning", just about any outlandish unfalsifiable idea is in the category of "the possible". Including the undetectable immaterial dragon that watches over my shoulder all day long.

People are already talking about the concept of transferring the information in a human brain to a computer. So it seems that with the advent of the computer, humans have glimpsed a possible mechanism for cheating death of the essential "self".

From one physical carrier to another.
Which implies that the "self" is nothing but a physical neural network.
Destroy the physical carrier = destroy the self.

I suggest that the history of human inquiry into the fundamental nature of our Universe shows that things often turn up that are wildly unexpected (e.g. quantum theory).

Sure. So what? Is that an excuse to believe just about any outlandish, unfalsifiable idea?

Since human culture, in perhaps our relative technological and philosophical infancy, already sees a plausible path for the self surviving death of the body, I think it is manifestly unfair to compare a belief in the afterlife to the clearly absurd notion of an invisible dragon looming overhead.

I don't.
And you are again ignoring that the conceptual example of "surviving death of the body", consists of copying the physical neural network from the brain to another physical carrier.

"The afterlife" that religions speak of, is nothing like that. The "afterlife" of religion is non-physical.

There is absolutely nothing that suggests that our physical self can become non-physical. In fact, all the evidence suggests the exact opposite.

Yes, a lot of theists say some pretty ridiculous things. But acceptance of the possibility of a life beyond this one strikes me as completely reasonable.

Pretty much everything is possible. Not everything is plausible.

 

[Willis Gravning]

It amazes me just how many different forms of hell and beleifs there are.Is it Viking because they have interested me in the past

Someone once told me the Viking idea of hell was a place that was very cold and dark.

 

[Willis Gravning]

I feel the possibility of an afterlife is very real. Perhaps we are nothing more than sophisticated animals, but that isn't knowable. Think about the billions of people who believe in a higher power of some kind. Even Albert Einstein and Newton. Are all these people brain dead or is there something to it?

Metaphysics is not knowable that is some weird stuff once you start going down that road. Keep hope alive and try to be open minded is my best advice take it for what it is worth.

Sincerely,

Sam

The idea occurred to me that perhaps Earth is something like a purgatory. We don't really know why we are here, it isn't exactly heaven and it isn't exactly hell but sometimes it is a little of either and we don't know whether there is any life other than this one.

 

[11god11]

Someone once told me the Viking idea of hell was a place that was very cold and dark.

a vast difference from hot and tormenting very interesting thank you

 

[expos4ever]

From one physical carrier to another.
Which implies that the "self" is nothing but a physical neural network.
Destroy the physical carrier = destroy the self.

Imagine this scenario.

Fred is a living human person who is about to die. Probes are inserted into Fred's brain and the "information state" of that brain is saved to a storage device. An indestructible new body, with an indestructible brain is then created. The information state of Fred's brain is then transferred to the indestructible body.

That is essentially the model I have in mind. How is this not "life after death" for Fred? Is this scenario implausible?

 

[Freodin]

Imagine this scenario.

Fred is a living human person who is about to die. Probes are inserted into Fred's brain and the "information state" of that brain is saved to a storage device. An indestructible new body, with an indestructible brain is then created. The information state of Fred's brain is then transferred to the indestructible body.

That is essentially the model I have in mind. How is this not "life after death" for Fred? Is this scenario implausible?

You will run into several problem with concepts like "identification of self" and "continuity of consciousness" with such a model.

Just imagine a similar scenario. Fred is a living human person who is about to die. His "information state" is saved to a new brain. In his last minute, Fred, the living human person, is saved from death.

Now we have two Freds, one living human person and one transferred "information state" in a new brain.

Which one is the "real" Fred that lives on?

 

[expos4ever]

Which one is the "real" Fred that lives on?

I would think we simply have two Freds. There may indeed be all sorts of resulting problems that need to be sorted out, of course.

However, I don't see how these possible odd scenarios render what I am suggesting implausible.