There are some standing here who will not taste death-

RaymondG · Sep 11, 2018

Petros2015 said:
There's probably a couple of guys out there, now they are 2000 years old. Look just like you and me, still waiting patiently.

I am one of them. I will not die before seeing the son coming in the kingdom....

joshua 1 9 · Sep 11, 2018

Petros2015 said:
There's probably a couple of guys out there, now they are 2000 years old. Look just like you and me, still waiting patiently.

Why has no one made a movie? Also what do they use for birth certificate?

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

eleos1954 said:
This is what I said:

the Son of Man is going to come (2nd coming - this hasn't happened yet)
until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.” (2nd coming - this hasn't happened yet)

If it hasn't happened yet .... then it is yet to come and we are waiting for it.

I understand that is what you said.
What I am now asking, separate and distinct from that, is THIS:

Do you believe THIS coming of the Lord has already happened or are we still waiting for it?:

"When the Lord therefore of the vineyard comes, what will he do unto those vine-growers? They said unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will rent out his vineyard unto other vine-growers, who shall render him the fruits in their seasons. Jesus said unto them, Did you never read in the scriptures, 'The stone which the builders rejected, this became the chief corner stone: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?' Therefore say I unto you, the kingdom of God shall be taken away from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits of it. And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder. And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard his parables, they understood that He was speaking about them." (Mt 21:40-45)

Which is it?
Is the "Coming of the Lord to destroy those 1st century wicked Chief Priests and Pharisees " in Matt 21: 40-45 already Fulfilled or are we still waiting for it to take place?

eleos1954 · Sep 11, 2018

parousia70 said:
I'm simply wondering where the Bible teaches you to divorce this coming:
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

From This coming in the very next verse:

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”

As I understand your position, in these two back to back verses, Jesus MUST be teaching that these two comings are wholly and completely separate events from one another.

I'm simply wondering where you are finding the scriptural instruction to completely divorce these two back to back "coming" verses, uttered By Christ himself in direct, immediate sequence, from one another?

You keep referring to THIS coming .... and yes both verses are referring to His 2nd coming which hasn't happened yet. I'm not "divorcing" anything. No, you do not understand my position ... they are not two separate comings ... both are talking about when He comes back which is often referred to as HIS 2nd coming. 2nd coming is one event .... when He comes back for the second time. You completely misunderstand

Hebrews 9:28 -
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time (ie his second coming), not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

Petros2015 · Sep 11, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Also what do they use for birth certificate?

Well they've had 2000 years to figure that out. I imagine they are pretty good at it by now.

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

eleos1954 said:
You keep referring to THIS coming

And the Coming of the Lord in Matt 21:40-45 to destroy the 1st century Chief Priests and Pharisees?

Still unflufilled?

mkgal1 · Sep 11, 2018

This is the most clear and convincing explanation I've read about when the Kingdom of God came into power. It's long, but I couldn't see anything I could cut out from this (and this isn't the entire blog post):

Quoting Dan Dery------->AD30-KINGDOM INITIATION

Not surprisingly, even the staunchest of futurists will readily admit that the kingdom of God was initiated at the ascension of Jesus in fulfilment of 2 Samuel 7:12-13, Psalm 2 and Psalm 110. The scriptures leave no room to doubt this fact.

Acts 2:30-35
“And so, because he was a prophet and knew that God had sworn to him with an oath to seat one of his descendants on his throne, he looked ahead and spoke of the resurrection of the Christ, that He was neither abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh suffer decay. “This Jesus God raised up again, to which we are all witnesses. Therefore, having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, He has poured forth this which you both see and hear. For it was not David who ascended into heaven, but he himself says: The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

Peter says that the resurrection and ascension of Jesus fulfilled the promise that God made to David to give to his “Seed” his throne and kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12-13). As a result, this also fulfilled the prophecy of God’s Messiah ruling from Zion (Psalm 110). This is undeniably the inauguration of Jesus as King, and the initiation (the beginning) of the establishment of the kingdom of God.

Paul shares some similar thoughts….

Acts 13:32-34
“And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you’ As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.

Paul likewise says that the resurrection and ascension of Jesus meant that God had enthroned His King in Zion (in the New Jerusalem) fulfilling Psalm 2. Through the resurrection, God had given Jesus the “sure blessings” of David, which points again to the fulfillment of 2 Samuel 7:12-13.

For Peter and Paul, the Messianic kingdom of God had been initiated in AD30 through the resurrection, ascension, and enthronement of Jesus, the rightful King of Israel. Thus, having established the time of “kingdom initiation” (AD30), let’s now establish the time of “kingdom consummation”.

AD70-KINGDOM CONSUMMATED

The entire book of Hebrews is in a sense a contrast between the two covenants. In chapter 12 the writer of Hebrews encourages his struggling and persecuted Jewish readers to remember that they had come to a New and better Covenant in Jesus Christ.

Hebrews 12:18-19,22-24
For you have not come to a mountain that can be touched and to a blazing fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind, and to the blast of a trumpet and the sound of words which sound was such that those who heard begged that no further word be spoken to them…. But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than that of Abel.

As they were leaving behind the Old Covenant mountain which “could be touched” and “shaken” (it was earthly), they were metaphorically ascending their New Covenant mountain which could neither be touched nor shaken (it was heavenly).

Hebrews 12:26-28
And His voice shook the earth then, but now He has promised, saying, “Yet once more, and I will shake not only the earth, but the heaven.” This expression, “Yet once more,” denotes the removing of those things which can be shaken, as of created things, so that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. Therefore, since we receive a kingdom which cannot be shaken…”

I believe that the immediate covenant-context in Hebrews 12 is enough to clearly identify what is being shaken, and what is remaining in verses 26-28. However, when we take into consideration what the writer has said previously in his letter regarding the two covenants, we are literally forced to interpret the “things which can be shaken” as the Old Covenant order, and the “things which cannot be shaken” and were thus “remaining” as the New Covenant order – the new creation. Let’s consider those things.

Recall Hebrews 8:13 where the writer says that the Old Covenant was “growing old” and “ready to vanish away”.

“When He said, “A new covenant” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear”

Notice the present tense of this verse, the Old Covenant was at that time in the process of becoming obsolete. In the “covenant context” of both Hebrews 8 and 12, is it not both contextual and logical to say that what was “being shaken” in Hebrews 12:27, was the Old Covenant of Hebrews 8:13 which was “ready to vanish away”?

The answer becomes even more obvious when we also consider Hebrews 10:9.

“Then He said, “Behold, I have come to do your will”. He takes away the first in order to establish the second”.

Notice again that this verse was written in the present tense. Hebrews 10:9 says that the Lord was at that time “taking away” the first (covenant), in order to “establish” the second (covenant). So again, in the “covenantal context” of both Hebrews 8 and 12, it is not both contextual and logical to say that what was being “removed” in Hebrews 12:27, was the Old (first) Covenant of Hebrews 10:9 which was being “taken away”?

And, wouldn’t what was “remaining” in Hebrews 12:27, be the New Covenant of Hebrews 10:9 which would be “established” when the Old (first) Covenant was taken away?

Can you see the connection, especially since all three texts (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9, and 12:26-28) were spoken in a covenantal context? Now, consider one more verse which was also spoken in a covenantal context, and how it parallels Hebrews 12:27.

2 Corinthians 3:9,11 (NKJV)
For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousnessexceeds much more in glory…. For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.

It is universally agreed that in 2 Corinthians 3, Paul is contrasting the “glories” and the “ministries” of the two (Old and New) Covenants. Notice again the present tense of this text. Verse 11 plainly teaches that the Old Covenant (which had glory) was at that time in the process of “passing away”, and the New Covenant (which was much more glorious) was “remaining”.

Please take the time to compare this text with Hebrews 12:27. Once again, in the “covenantal context” of both Hebrews 12 and 2 Corinthians 3, is it not both contextual and logical to say that what was “being removed” in Hebrews 12:27 was the Old Covenant of 2 Corinthians 3:11 which was “passing away”?

And, wouldn’t what was “remaining” in Hebrews 12:27 be the New Covenant of 2 Corinthians 3:11 which was likewise “remaining”?

The below charts [removed, but in link] are a powerful demonstration that all four texts (Hebrews 8:13, 10:9, 12:26-28, and 2 Corinthians 3:11) refer to one and the same “covenantal transition”, when the Old Covenant was passing away, and the New Covenant was being established in order to remain forever.

When the Old Covenant which was being shaken had served its prophetic purpose in redemptive history, it would be completely removed so that the New Covenant which could not be shaken, would remain forever. This is what I call “covenantal transition”. And notice, the result of the removal of the Old and the remaining (the establishment) of the New, would be the coming (receiving) of the kingdom.

Hebrews 12:28 (NKJV)
“THEREFORE, since we are receiving a kingdom which cannot be shaken…”

The word “therefore” makes the receiving of the kingdom the RESULT and the PURPOSE of the establishment of the New Covenant. In other words, as they were receiving the New Covenant (and its promises), they were receiving the Kingdom of God.

Therefore, when they received the established New Covenant in AD70, and the full application of its promises, they received the consummated Kingdom of God. According to Hebrews 12, to possession the New Covenant and its promises, is to receive the eternal kingdom-inheritance.

This is the message of the book of Hebrews, indeed, the entire New Testament. When the Old Covenant had been shaken and removed, and the New Covenant fully established to remain, then the Hebrews (Israel according to the flesh) and the grafted in Gentiles would receive the anticipated Messianic Kingdom of God. This happened historically when the Old Covenant and the entire “Old Covenant world” (Jerusalem and Judaism) were shaken and removed through the destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman armies as the judgment of God in AD70.

Now, this is where things get interesting and perhaps confusing for the kingdom-futurist. To rephrase a point we made above:

If the “receiving” of the kingdom through the establishment of the New Covenant in Hebrews 12:28 was not the final coming (arrival) of the kingdom that was initiated at Pentecost, then what was it? And, what was its significance for the body of Christ? I mean no disrespect to the “kingdom-futurist”, but if you do hold to a paradigm of a future earthly kingdom, please seriously consider what follows.

The prophet Daniel prophesied that the kingdom was to come in the “last days” (Daniel 2:28), which would be the days of Rome – the fourth beast in Daniels’s vision – and at that time, the “saints would possess the kingdom”. (Daniel 2, 7)

Jesus arrived in the last days (Hebrews 1:1) when Rome (Daniel’s fourth beast) was in power (Luke 2:1-2), and proclaimed that the kingdom of God was “near”. (Mathew 4:17)

Jesus not only proclaimed that the kingdom was “near”, he promised that it would arrive in “power and glory” at his return (second coming) in the first century, before all his contemporary generation had died. (Mathew 16:27-28)

Jesus even taught that the kingdom would be taken from Old Covenant Israel and given to “another people” in fulfillment of Daniel 7:18,22. He said that this would happen when the unfaithful Jews were judged and destroyed for their murder of the prophets and himself. (Mathew 21:33-45)

Then, after his victorious resurrection over sin and death, Jesus ascended to the right hand of the Father to receive the Davidic kingdom and to initiate His kingdom-reign in fulfillment of 2 Samuel 7:12-13, Psalm 2, and 110.

10 days later, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon the nation of Israel so they would be “clothed with power from on high” (Luke 24:49), which initiated the kingdom-restoration of Israel (Isaiah 32:15). It also further confirmed to Israel that they were in fact living in the last days (Acts 2:15-17), and that the kingdom would soon be established and received according to the prophet Daniel.

Years later, Paul the apostle taught that the baptism of the Holy Spirit and its manifestations, was the “pledge” (the guarantee down-payment) that they would receive the fullness of their kingdom-inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14, 4:30, Mathew 25:31-34) within their lifetime, just as Jesus had promised. (Mathew 16:27-28, Luke 21:28-32).

Then, after years of kingdom-anticipation, the writer of the book of Hebrews tells his readers that when the Old Covenant would be fully removed and the New Covenant fully established, they would “receive” the kingdom of God (a direct quotation and fulfillment of Daniel 7:22 and Mathew 21:43).

Therefore, since the Old Covenant has been fully removed, and the New Covenant fully established, the kingdom of God has already been received. The fact is according to Hebrews, wherever you place the removal of the Old Covenant and the establishment of the New, is where you must place the arrival and reception of the Messianic kingdom of God. ~ https://reformedeschatology.com/the-kingdom-has-come-but-do-we-look-for-another/

JoeP222w · Sep 11, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Just what was Jesus talking about in Matthew 16 when He said there were people there that would not taste death "until they see the Son of Man coming in His Kingdom.”

27 aFor the Son of Man is going to come with bhis angels in the glory of his Father, and cthen he will repay each person according to what he has done.

28 Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not dtaste death euntil they see the Son of Man fcoming in his kingdom.”

Was He talking about 70 ad when the temple was tore down and Jerusalem was scattered to the world?

This prophecy was fulfilled in the very next chapter of Matthew when Jesus was transfigured. The are no chapter notations in the original scriptures.

Matthew 17:1-13 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. (2) And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. (3) And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. (4) And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (5) He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” (6) When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. (7) But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” (8) And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only. (9) And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” (10) And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” (11) He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. (12) But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” (13) Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

mkgal1 · Sep 11, 2018

Seville90210 said:
Jesus gave a warning. Don't speculate like Gary DeMar unless you want to risk losing it all.

The only thing I believe I've "lost" is the confusion that came from trying to make sense of *most* of the Bible going by futurist teaching.....but have GAINED a peace, that peace that's spoken of that passes understanding, in knowing that Jesus DID fulfill ALL that was prophesied about Him. IOW.....I have the assurance that what the Bible says (in full) is TRUE and there's no need to dance around and do gymnastics with a lot of the text. It ALL falls nicely into place with the preterist framework.

fat wee robin · Sep 11, 2018

eleos1954 said:
Perhaps:
Luke 9:27 says, "I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the kingdom of God." See also Matthew 16:28 and Mark 9:1 for the parallel quotes. In each of the synoptic Gospels, the next event immediately after this promise from Jesus is the transfiguration. Rather than interpreting Jesus' promise as referring to His coming to establish His kingdom on earth, the context indicates that Jesus was referring to the transfiguration. The Greek word translated "kingdom" can also be translated "royal splendor," meaning that the three disciples standing there would see Christ as He really is—the King of heaven—which occurred in the transfiguration.

It means that the Kingdom for some begins here on earth ,and not after death.
The apostles and some other followers would have entered into life Eternal from
the time of the Resurrection ,they would never die and would enter with God into
His Kingdom .

joshua 1 9 · Sep 11, 2018

JoeP222w said:
Matthew 17:1-13 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. (2) And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light.

Interesting that this passage begins with: "after six days". We are very close to the end of the sixth day so I wonder what the meaning of this passage is for us the church.

mkgal1 · Sep 11, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Interesting that this passage begins with: "after six days".

The way I see it, by it beginning with "after six days", that can mean some of them WERE still alive when Christ took possession of His kingdom (but I don't believe the ascension was when that happened) - so it confirms what Jesus said "some of you standing here shall not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom". IOW.....we can't still be waiting.

From this blog post by Dan Dery ~

The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at my right hand until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet.”’

Peter says that the resurrection and ascension of Jesus fulfilled the promise that God made to David to give to his “Seed” his throne and kingdom (2 Samuel 7:12-13). As a result, this also fulfilled the prophecy of God’s Messiah ruling from Zion (Psalm 110). This is undeniably the inauguration of Jesus as King, and the initiation (the beginning) of the establishment of the kingdom of God.

Paul shares some similar thoughts….

Acts 13:32-34
“And we preach to you the good news of the promise made to the fathers, that God has fulfilled this promise to our children in that He raised up Jesus, as it is also written in the second Psalm, ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you’ As for the fact that He raised Him up from the dead, no longer to return to decay, He has spoken in this way: ‘I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.

Paul likewise says that the resurrection and ascension of Jesus meant that God had enthroned His King in Zion (in the New Jerusalem) fulfilling Psalm 2. Through the resurrection, God had given Jesus the “sure blessings” of David, which points again to the fulfillment of 2 Samuel 7:12-13.

For Peter and Paul, the Messianic kingdom of God had been initiated in AD30 through the resurrection, ascension, and enthronement of Jesus, the rightful King of Israel. Thus, having established the time of “kingdom initiation” (AD30), let’s now establish the time of “kingdom consummation”.

AD70-KINGDOM CONSUMMATED ~ https://reformedeschatology.com/the-kingdom-has-come-but-do-we-look-for-another/

....so I wonder what the meaning of this passage is for us the church.

That we can trust God? That He IS sovereign. That's the message I get anyway.

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

JoeP222w said:
This prophecy was fulfilled in the very next chapter of Matthew when Jesus was transfigured. The are no chapter notations in the original scriptures.

This Prophesy was fulfilled at the transfiguration?:
27 For the Son of Man is going to come with his angels in the glory of his Father, and then he will repay each person according to what he has done.

claninja · Sep 11, 2018

JoeP222w said:
This prophecy was fulfilled in the very next chapter of Matthew when Jesus was transfigured. The are no chapter notations in the original scriptures.

Matthew 17:1-13 And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James, and John his brother, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. (2) And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his clothes became white as light. (3) And behold, there appeared to them Moses and Elijah, talking with him. (4) And Peter said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If you wish, I will make three tents here, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah.” (5) He was still speaking when, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and a voice from the cloud said, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to him.” (6) When the disciples heard this, they fell on their faces and were terrified. (7) But Jesus came and touched them, saying, “Rise, and have no fear.” (8) And when they lifted up their eyes, they saw no one but Jesus only. (9) And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” (10) And the disciples asked him, “Then why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?” (11) He answered, “Elijah does come, and he will restore all things. (12) But I tell you that Elijah has already come, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they pleased. So also the Son of Man will certainly suffer at their hands.” (13) Then the disciples understood that he was speaking to them of John the Baptist.

So when Jesus states "some standing here will not taste death", he really meant 6 days?
Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James

Luke reiterates that the coming of the kingdom would occur after Jerusalem and the temple's destruction, but still within the generation of the disciples (this generation).
Luke 21:31-32 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Therefore, Matthew 16:28 is not talking about the transfiguration, but about the soon coming Kingdom of God within the disciple's generation.

eleos1954 · Sep 11, 2018

parousia70 said:
And the Coming of the Lord in Matt 21:40-45 to destroy the 1st century Chief Priests and Pharisees?

Still unflufilled?

Thank you for actually providing particular verse(s) ... this is a parable ... I thought you were referring to his actual 2nd coming. Sorry about that.

So concerning the parable:

It was told to the religious elders who disputed Jesus’ teachings and resented Him entering the temple. This parable denotes God, who Jesus is, His purpose, and what He could foresee.

The landowner – represents God
The vineyard – His Kingdom
The tenants – specifically Israel’s religious leaders and all who reject Him
The servants – God’s prophets and faithful believers
The beloved son – Jesus Christ

These religious leaders functioned strictly out of tradition and rigid law, with hardened hearts. They had no true love for God. Therefore, they rejected Jesus when He came speaking of grace, love, and forgiveness. They were angered at His non-traditional teachings. They wanted Him silenced so they didn’t have to consider their errors and face correction.

In the final verses of this parable, Jesus asked, “Didn’t you ever read in the Scriptures? ‘The stone rejected by the builders has now become the Cornerstone. This is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous to see.’” Ephesians 2:20 tells us that Jesus is the chief corner stone in the structure of God’s house (see Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 28:16). In this ‘tenants’ parable, Jesus is revealing that though the religious leaders reject Him, He (Jesus) is the foundation of the Father’s temple or church of believers.

God Bless.

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

eleos1954 said:
Thank you for actually providing particular verse(s) ... this is a parable ... I thought you were referring to his actual 2nd coming. Sorry about that.

No worries... I was bouncing around a bit...

So concerning the parable:

It was told to the religious elders who disputed Jesus’ teachings and resented Him entering the temple. This parable denotes God, who Jesus is, His purpose, and what He could foresee.

OK...

The landowner – represents God
The vineyard – His Kingdom
The tenants – specifically Israel’s religious leaders and all who reject Him
The servants – God’s prophets and faithful believers
The beloved son – Jesus Christ

OK... So who is the "other nation who would be given the kingdom to bear it's fruits" after it was to be violently taken from the Tenants, whom you have previously identified as the 1st-century religious leaders, at their "miserable destruction" and when did that happen? (or are we still waiting for it to happen?)

These religious leaders functioned strictly out of tradition and rigid law, with hardened hearts. They had no true love for God. Therefore, they rejected Jesus when He came speaking of grace, love, and forgiveness. They were angered at His non-traditional teachings. They wanted Him silenced so they didn’t have to consider their errors and face correction.

OK

In the final verses of this parable, Jesus asked, “Didn’t you ever read in the Scriptures? ‘The stone rejected by the builders has now become the Cornerstone. This is the Lord’s doing, and it is marvelous to see.’” Ephesians 2:20 tells us that Jesus is the chief corner stone in the structure of God’s house (see Psalm 118:22, Isaiah 28:16). In this ‘tenants’ parable, Jesus is revealing that though the religious leaders reject Him, He (Jesus) is the foundation of the Father’s temple or church of believers.

OK, so how do you interpret, Jesus the Cornerstone, falling on the Religious Leaders and grinding them to powder at "The Coming of the Lord of the Vineyard" to miserably destroy them and take away the Kingdom from them"?

Fulfilled?

Unfulfilled?

Thx.

DavidPT · Sep 11, 2018

claninja said:
So when Jesus states "some standing here will not taste death", he really meant 6 days?
Matthew 16:28 Truly I tell you, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom.”
Matthew 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James

Luke reiterates that the coming of the kingdom would occur after Jerusalem and the temple's destruction, but still within the generation of the disciples (this generation).
Luke 21:31-32 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.

Therefore, Matthew 16:28 is not talking about the transfiguration, but about the soon coming Kingdom of God within the disciple's generation.

You are correct that it's not talking about the transfiguration, yet incorrect that it is instead talking about "the soon coming Kingdom of God within the disciple's generation".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It seems to me----the Son of man coming in his kingdom---is meaning this---the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels.

What does the text indicate happens when the Son of man comes in His kingdom? Does it not indicate this---and then he shall reward every man according to his works? Doesn't that sound like something He might fulfill once He has physically returned, as in the 2nd coming?

No events in the first century could have possibly fulfilled the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels. That is something that is fulfilled at the 2nd coming.

IMO the sheep and goats judgment in Matthew 25 is the fulfillment of----For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

If these aren't being rewarded according to their works, what are they being rewarded according to then? Not only that, obviously the sheep and goats judgment hasn't even been fulfilled yet. That has to mean Matthew 16:27-28 has not been fulfilled yet either.

joshua 1 9 · Sep 11, 2018

mkgal1 said:
we can't still be waiting.

Yes we can if one is a shadow and a type of the other. What happened with the Hebrew nation in 70AD will happen with the whole world at the end of this age. One is a shadow and a type of the other.

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

DavidPT said:
You are correct that it's not talking about the transfiguration, yet incorrect that it is instead talking about "the soon coming Kingdom of God within the disciple's generation".

Matthew 16:27 For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.
28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.

It seems to me----the Son of man coming in his kingdom---is meaning this---the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels.

What does the text indicate happens when the Son of man comes in His kingdom? Does it not indicate this---and then he shall reward every man according to his works? Doesn't that sound like something He might fulfill once He has physically returned, as in the 2nd coming?

No events in the first century could have possibly fulfilled the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels. That is something that is fulfilled at the 2nd coming.

IMO the sheep and goats judgment in Matthew 25 is the fulfillment of----For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Matthew 25:29 For unto every one that hath shall be given, and he shall have abundance: but from him that hath not shall be taken away even that which he hath.
30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

If these aren't being rewarded according to their works, what are they being rewarded according to then? Not only that, obviously the sheep and goats judgment hasn't even been fulfilled yet. That has to mean Matthew 16:27-28 has not been fulfilled yet either.

So you’re saying Jesus was mistaken? Or worse yet was lying When He plainly said, to their faces, that some of them standing there would not taste death until that event happened?

If, as you claim, Jesus didn’t actually mean what he said to them, then what do you say he did mean?

parousia70 · Sep 11, 2018

joshua 1 9 said:
Yes we can if one is a shadow and a type of the other. What happened with the Hebrew nation in 70AD will happen with the whole world at the end of this age. One is a shadow and a type of the other.

But the bible explicitly teaches there is no end to the New Covenant Age (Eph 3:21; Heb 13:20),

DavidPT · Sep 11, 2018

parousia70 said:
So you’re saying Jesus was mistaken? Or worse yet was lying When He plainly said, to their faces, that some of them standing there would not taste death until that event happened?

If, as you claim, Jesus didn’t actually mean what he said to them, then what do you say he did mean?

I can try explaining some of it except you are not going to agree with any of it because you seem stuck in limbo in this Preterist type mindset you have going on. There is such a thing as a resurrection of the dead when Christ returns. If someone standing there at the time were to rise from the dead in the future, then be judged unworthy to inherit the kingdom, I'm pretty certain that could qualify as tasting of death. Who was Jesus' audience at the time? Was it not His main disciples and wannabe disciples?

Luke 13:23 Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them,
24 Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
25 When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are:
26 Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets.
27 But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.
28 There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out.
29 And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God.
30 And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last.

There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth---this is synonymous with tasting of death as shown elsewhere.

Matthew 13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Compare verse 43 with the following, in regards to the sheep. This shows the timing in the sheep and goats judgment is once Christ has returned, as in the 2nd coming. It is during this same judgment that some are cast out of the kingdom rather than welcomed into it, meaning the goats.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Also compare Matthew 13:42 with the following, in regards to the goats.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

There are some standing here who will not taste death-

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

God is Love

Well-Known Member

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Well-Known Member

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Newbie

Well-Known Member

His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Well-Known Member

God is Love

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Livin' in yesterday's tomorrow

Well-Known Member

Similar threads

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency