Theological problems with AIG and ICR websites?

[Ave Maria]

I am a frequenter of the Fundamentalist forum. Anyway, I did a poll that asked people what their origin of life view was. This one guy came on and said that Answers in Genesis and Institution for Creation Research claims that the earth was created first and then the rest of the matter in the universe. I don't understand this. Here's a quote from him:

Is it logical that the earth was created first and then all the rest of the matter in the universe? That's how Answers in Genesis (AiG) and the Institute for Creation Research (ICR) present it. What verse would you point to for the stars being created? If you say Genesis 1:16, then I would like to respectfully debate that, because "He made" has been added into the translation. The stars are only mentioned as a component of the moon ruling the night.

Can someone please explain?

 

[owen_rocks]

AIG/ICR take the view of Genesis Chapter 1 that on Day 4 the Sun, Moon, and Stars (ie. rest of the universe - galaxies, quasars, etc) were created.

The person you are quoting is saying that on Day 4 it doesn't say explicitly that God made the stars at that time, only that the stars were also to help serve the moons function as a "ruler" of the night.

regards,

o/r

 

[Ave Maria]

Ok, is the person I quoted correct? If not, how is that refuted? Also, he says that AIG and ICR says that the earth was created first and then the rest of the universe. Is that true? I am so confused!

 

[owen_rocks]

Ok, is the person I quoted correct? If not, how is that refuted?

I don't know if he/she is correct or not. I don't know enough about Hebrew
to figure out whether more should be read into the passage or not.

I believe the refutation would be, that in Exodus 20 and 31:17 it refers to
God creating everything in 6 days (which would included the stars).

Also, he says that AIG and ICR says that the earth was created first and then the rest of the universe. Is that true? I am so confused!

Correct. Day 1-3 have creative acts occuring for the earth. Day 4
is where they would say the solar system and universe are created.
Day 5-6 are more creative acts on the earth specifically.

regards,
o/r

 

[Ave Maria]

That doesn't make sense to me. Why would the earth be created before the solar system and the rest of the universe?

 

[jbarcher]

Maybe Genesis 1:1 is taken to refer to the universe.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

That doesn't make sense to me. Why would the earth be created before the solar system and the rest of the universe?

Why doesn't that make sense to you? Reading the Bible it makes sense to me that Earth was made before our sun and other stars and planets that exist today. That goes contray to what evolutionists say but I would side with what the creator would say and not the guesses of fallible man.

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

To help you out lets take a look at a verse.

Genesis 1:16a And God made two great lights;

He made the moon and the sun on day 4. The second part of the verse tells us why he made these on day 4.

Genesis 1:16b the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

At the end of that verse you can see he also made the other stars that we now enjoy looking at today. You must understand evolutionists often like to down play the importance of Earth. Even though Earth is scientificaly a very unique planet for life they always want to believe that Earth is nothing special. Several also love to believe the idea that there are aliens out there, probably smarter then us. Funny how they can believe that and spend billions on looking for aliens and at the same time think believing in God is something that simple minded people do...

 

[Ave Maria]

Why doesn't that make sense to you? Reading the Bible it makes sense to me that Earth was made before our sun and other stars and planets that exist today. That goes contray to what evolutionists say but I would side with what the creator would say and not the guesses of fallible man.

I don't know. It just seems like the universe would be created first and then the earth. But then again, I do believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. If God chose to create the earth first then I believe that! God is so great!

 

[MatthewDiscipleofGod]

I don't know. It just seems like the universe would be created first and then the earth. But then again, I do believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. If God chose to create the earth first then I believe that! God is so great!

Well it is hard to comprehend creation to begin with if you ask me. We have never experienced anything like it in our life times. As you said it's wonderful to know we have a God so great.

 

[Ave Maria]

Well it is hard to comprehend creation to begin with if you ask me. We have never experienced anything like it in our life times. As you said it's wonderful to know we have a God so great.

Amen! I may not fully understand the creation story but that doesn't matter. I'll ask Jesus when I get to Heaven.

 

[adam149]

I am a frequenter of the Fundamentalist forum. Anyway, I did a poll that asked people what their origin of life view was. This one guy came on and said that Answers in Genesis and Institution for Creation Research claims that the earth was created first and then the rest of the matter in the universe. I don't understand this. Here's a quote from him:

Can someone please explain?

If you look at the creation passages of Genesis chapter 1 and 2, there is no verse that tells us when the earth itself was created. Gen. 1:2 states that the earth was "formless and void" so clearly the earth was created prior to that. Verse one tells us that "God created the heavens and the earth." I see that as saying that God created the universe, the entirity of our reality, and the earth, at this time unformed (like a lump of clay that has not yet been shaped). This would have happened on day one, before the light. The earth was the first thing God created, not light and darkness, which is interesting since earth is always central to God's concerns. God then later filled the space of the universe with stars and galaxies.

As to the issue of the "he made": well, yes, it is added for clarity. But this doesn't mean anything. Watch: we'll list the verse twice below, with the "he made" in one, and not the other:

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

Gen 1:16 And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: the stars also.

Translators often add words for clarity, but these are (or at least should be) based on the implications of the text. FOr example, this passage in Hebrew is stating clearly that God made the sun and the moon, oh, and he made the stars too. The writer is not linking the stars with the moon, he's saying, "God made these things, and this as well" See? There is no problem outside of your critic's mind. I hope this helped somewhat.