Theistic Evolutionist...

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Google "evidence for a global flood", and you will find plenty of "evidence"...

I have seen the so-called 'evidence' for a global flood, and it's either one of two things:

1. A shoddy/genuinely poor understanding of geology or
2. It's outright lying.

Nothing that has been presented by Flood supporters has been either credible or factual.

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The beasts Daniel saw, and the image of the statue of a man, with a gold head, silver chest, ect... representing kingdoms that had yet to even arise yet...

All prophecy, not just Biblical prophecy, relies on vague language and phrases, thus allowing the prophet to claim that, no matter what happens, they were right.
Show me evidence of a statue of a man with a gold head and a silver chest.

 

[Neogaia777]

All prophecy, not just Biblical prophecy, relies on vague language and phrases, thus allowing the prophet to claim that, no matter what happens, they were right.
Show me evidence of a statue of a man with a gold head and a silver chest.

The problem with prophecy, like dreams and visions, they are meant to be interpreted "symbolically" like beasts representing kingdoms...

I disagree with you that they were all vague and could be interpreted to mean whatever the prophet chose for them to mean, they are to specific for that...

Daniels visions of the statue of a man, representing kingdoms: https://www.google.com/search?q=dan...X&ved=0ahUKEwitxPbgt83JAhVL5YMKHQiGAg4QsAQIKg

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

The problem with prophecy, like dreams and visions, they are meant to be interpreted "symbolically" like beasts representing kingdoms...

I disagree with you that they were all vague and could be interpreted to mean whatever the prophet chose for them to mean, they are to specific for that...

So how can a prophesy be fulfilled if it's symbolic? How can something be fulfilled symbolically?
And how is it not vague if someone refers to 'four beasts'?

 

[Neogaia777]

So how can a prophesy be fulfilled if it's symbolic? How can something be fulfilled symbolically?
And how is it not vague if someone refers to 'four beasts'?

Some of the visions designed by God some are only meant to interpreted correctly until "after" the foretold event has actually happened, then and only then (usually, there are a few exceptions) are they meant to be understood correctly, that's why no one can accurately yet, interpret revelation correctly, because it has not come to pass yet, when it passes, or has taken place, then and only then can we look back at history and look at the prophecies of the Bible and see and say "Oh, yeah, this meant this, and that meant that...

One exception to this is Pharoh's dream, without Joseph, none of his people could correctly interpret the dream, without Joseph, Egypt would have gone through the seven years of famine, unprepared, but "after", and only after, the seven years of famine, the Egyptians would have been able to examine the dream and after it had passed for themselves, they could all look back and see how that dream came to pass and know it was from God...

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Some of the visions designed by God some are only meant to interpreted correctly until "after" the foretold event has actually happened...

I'm going to stop you there.
"Only meant to be interpreted correctly until 'after' the event..."
So the people who made the prophecy basically say "See? We told you!".
How can you say that, and not see how suspect it is?

 

[Neogaia777]

I'm going to stop you there.
"Only meant to be interpreted correctly until 'after' the event..."
So the people who made the prophecy basically say "See? We told you!".
How can you say that, and not see how suspect it is?

If you can't (or perhaps "won't) prevent a man or a nation going down a destructive (& self-destructive) path and you do not "warn" them, it is because no one is listening to his warnings that we continue down destructive paths, what is the word I'm looking for...? Self-devouring, until there is nothing left to feed on, ways... The correct interpretation of a vision or a dream "before" an event happens belongs to God's true prophets, the true prophet is to interpret the dream or vision, and then "warn" the people or person, or king or nation, God will not "force" them to change, the choice he leaves in our hands, and one can only create a true choice is to forewarn people...

God Bless!

Oh, P.S. Warden, I created a thread for a question you refused to answer in another forum, because it was off topic, I'd really like to get a reply from you in it, here it is...

http://www.christianforums.com/threads/do-you-believe-in-a-god-but-not-the-god-of-the-bible.7921519/

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

If you can't prevent a man or a nation going down a destructive (& self-destructive) path and you do not "warn" them, it is because no one is listening to his warnings that we continue down destructive paths, what is the word I'm looking for...? Self-devouring, until there is nothing left to feed on, ways... The correct interpretation of a vision or a dream "before" an event happens belongs to God's true prophets, the true prophet is to interpret the dream or vision, and then "warn" the people or person, or king or nation, God will not "force" them to change, the choice he leaves in our hands, and one can only create a true choice is to forewarn people...

No, I'm not going further until you recognise that saying that someone interpreting a prophecy ONLY after it's happened is suspect. It's saying that I'm going to see a blue car this week, when I know that blue is a common car colour.

 

[Neogaia777]

No, I'm not going further until you recognise that saying that someone interpreting a prophecy ONLY after it's happened is suspect. It's saying that I'm going to see a blue car this week, when I know that blue is a common car colour.

What about a dream where you see a blue duck cross your path, and then a snake on a rock next to you, and a flock of birds fly from a tree when you looked at the snake, then, the next day, it actually happened just like you saw in your dream the previous night, wouldn't that make you a little suspect of the existence of a dream-weaver?

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What about a dream where you see a blue duck cross your path, and then a snake on a rock next to you, and a flock of birds fly from a tree when you looked at the snake, then, the next day, it actually happened just like you saw in your dream the previous night, wouldn't that make you a little suspect of the existence of a dream-weaver?

Answer the question: is saying that you can only interpret a prophecy until after it's the supposed event happens suspect or is it not?

 

[Neogaia777]

No, I'm not going further until you recognise that saying that someone interpreting a prophecy ONLY after it's happened is suspect. It's saying that I'm going to see a blue car this week, when I know that blue is a common car colour.

What is highly suspect about it?

 

[Neogaia777]

Answer the question: is saying that you can only interpret a prophecy until after it's the supposed event happens suspect or is it not?

Well, the dream remains a mystery until it actually happens...

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

What is highly suspect about it?

*sigh* I'll do it this way.
A man writes out a prophecy that involves a dragon beating a tiger in a field of wheat. Several years later, one large empire defeats another large empire in open battle. Then someone who has read the first man's prophecy says that he was talking about the battle. Now is that, or is not suspect?
I have had several dreams involving various creatures and animals (including one watching a troupe of mongooses ice-skating to Mozart. That was definitely a weird one), but I don't attribute those dreams to events. Does that mean that I am missing out on fulfilled prophecy? (could have worded that better, so if I need to rewrite that, I will)

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Well, the dream remains a mystery until it actually happens...

But how do you actually know the dream is about an event? You are attributing one thing to another thing with no just cause or reason to connect them.

 

[Neogaia777]

*sigh* I'll do it this way.
A man writes out a prophecy that involves a dragon beating a tiger in a field of wheat. Several years later, one large empire defeats another large empire in open battle. Then someone who has read the first man's prophecy says that he was talking about the battle. Now is that, or is not suspect?

Depends, are there more details to the story that led them to believe it was about the battle?

I have had several dreams involving various creatures and animals (including one watching a troupe of mongooses ice-skating to Mozart. That was definitely a weird one), but I don't attribute those dreams to events. Does that mean that I am missing out on fulfilled prophecy? (could have worded that better, so if I need to rewrite that, I will)

No, not all dreams or visions come from God, in fact it is only a great minority that are actually "from God"...

I had a dream once where I was offered all the kingdoms of the world after a great catastrophy, and I didn't know what to do, so I delegated some kingdoms to trusted friends, and I kept Israel for myself, thinking that it would only be temporary, until our Lord returns, then I would hand it over to him...

Was this a test or was the dream from God, or was my head just getting to big, and I was coming up with grand ideas?

God Bless!

 

[Warden_of_the_Storm]

Depends, are there more details to the story that led them to believe it was about the battle?

No, we're just sticking with the information in the original 'prophecy', which is what all other prophecies are like.

No, not all dreams or visions come from God, in fact it is only a great minority that are actually "from God"...

I had a dream once where I was offered all the kingdoms of the world after a great catastrophy, and I didn't know what to do, so I delegated some kingdoms to trusted friends, and I kept Israel for myself, thinking that it would only be temporary, until our Lord returns, then I would hand it over to him...

Was this a test or was the dream from God, or was my head just getting to big, and I was coming up with grand ideas?

God Bless!

That doesn't sound like a grand idea or a dream from God. It was just a dream brought on by your religious beliefs acting on your subconscious.[/QUOTE]

 

[Loudmouth]

But they would all be past tense, and therefore NOT prophecy, but history, and the Bible was written over a approximately 4,000 year period by forty different authors who more than likely didn't know each other... There are so, so very many prophecies that were fulfilled in the Bible, that, if you read say a prophecy about a king like Saul for example, Samuel, told by God, foretold exactly how he would die, and it happened just so...

Then show us a validated copy of those prophecies that existed prior to the fulfillment of that prophecy, and prove to us that the prophecy was speaking of that event and only that event.

 

[Loudmouth]

Some of the visions designed by God some are only meant to interpreted correctly until "after" the foretold event has actually happened, then and only then (usually, there are a few exceptions) are they meant to be understood correctly, that's why no one can accurately yet, interpret revelation correctly, because it has not come to pass yet, when it passes, or has taken place, then and only then can we look back at history and look at the prophecies of the Bible and see and say "Oh, yeah, this meant this, and that meant that...

I can prophesize every winning lottery ticket if I get to interpret them after the drawings.

 

[Neogaia777]

I can prophesize every winning lottery ticket if I get to interpret them after the drawings.

Only a select few chosen can correctly interpret a vision or a dream prophesying the future ahead of time, only a select few chosen, we call them prophets or true man of God, we must seek them out, but it doesn't seem we have any in today's age...

To me the prophecies are to many in number and to highly detailed to not be from a supernatural source...

I suppose now your going to deny the miracles too, despite the overwhelming evidence (Egyptian chariot wheels found on the bottom of the red sea, for one)

 

[Neogaia777]

Then show us a validated copy of those prophecies that existed prior to the fulfillment of that prophecy, and prove to us that the prophecy was speaking of that event and only that event.

All that evidence was destroyed, but, we do have the dead sea scrolls, and we got to see how over a period of two-thousand years the story and the words never changed...