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elopez

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I don't see that.
The earth might have been hit by some smaller planets. Adversary effects? So what?
I've explained it. So it contradicts a litleral reading of Genesis. You have to neglect science for that reading. You are in fact neglecting it, as you've not even addressed anything I have said, and instead keep saying "So what?"

If the sun did not have as much mass it does and has have had for awhile, and was a protostar when earth was formed, there woukd not be enough gravity for earth to orbit it. All the other outer planets like Jupiter would have too much mass and float out too.
 
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AV1611VET

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Try telling that to other YEC's. They will argue tooth and nail that's what day means.
You have an interesting avatar, in light of the fact that I believe science today is a form of witchcraft.
 
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juvenissun

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How about the protosun already have 90% of its mass? Would that be enough to keep the orbit of the earth and other planets?
 
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juvenissun

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Try telling that to other YEC's. They will argue tooth and nail that's what day means.

This could be another issue about time. May be in God's Kingdom it was really 24 hours. Do you think God's time scale is different from out time scale? If so, then what is the problem?
 
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-57

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I tried to get through your better than thou ramble and rhetoric....and your HAD example still fails. I have never seen a contradiction that didn't have a possible answer. Some apparent contradiction even have several probable answers. I also doubt your contradictions really are contradiction but rather borrowed from some bible hating site.
There are scholars "fluent in Hebrew and Greek" as you put it who come to diffferent conclusions. Do you honestly think the interpreters who understood HAD should be there understood it to be that way without reason?
If the bible is riddled with all these contradictions you insert...then what good is it?
The problem for bible changers like you is that when you make one change...you now open up several other contradictions. Concerning Moses and what Moses wrote..that what you doubt.....there is much proof that squarely stands before your scholary work. Click here.
 
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Doveaman

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At the risk of repeating myself, theistic evolution is a philosophical interpretation of a scientific theory.
If Theistic Evolution is a philosophical interpretation, then it's a philosophical theory and not a scientific theory.
 
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Loudmouth

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If Theistic Evolution is a philosophical interpretation, then it's a philosophical theory and not a scientific theory.

That's why scientists don't use the theory of theistic evolution. They use the theory of evolution, which is scientific.

They also don't use the theory of theistic gravitation, theistic quantum mechanics, theistic thermodynamics, theistic germ theory, or any other theistic religious belief that has God acting through nature in an undetectable way.
 
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lesliedellow

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If Theistic Evolution is a philosophical interpretation, then it's a philosophical theory and not a scientific theory.

Evolution is a scientific theory.

Putting a philosophical interpretation on something is, um, philosophy.

Satisfied?
 
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PsychoSarah

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You mean rotate faster? Because day lengths would only be lower with a faster rotation.
 
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elopez

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I don't. But that is a scientific possibility which would make the Gen 1 literally true.
Exactly. You're just making up some 90% number. We do not know too much about the sun as a protostar. But what is known is that as a protostar it needed a certain amount of mass to begin nuclear fusion, to begin the next phase of it's life cycle. A protostar grows by accretion, acquiring mass from its surrounding envelope of interstellar dust and gas. And that happens for quite some time. Not only in the pre-main-sequence phase does a star reach it's final mass, and not the protostar phase as you said earlier. That said, it may not be scientifically possible for the sun as a protostar to have had 90% of it's mass then, as that would also mean it could generate power so much that gravity woukd not contain the internal pressure. Such stars blow themselves apart and do not exist for long, if at all.
 
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Doveaman

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Evolution is a scientific theory.

Putting a philosophical interpretation on something is, um, philosophy.

Satisfied?
That's why I said earlier that Theistic Evolution is not scientific, it's a theistic interpretation.

Theistic Evolution postulates that God is the cause of Evolution. It postulates cause and effect without even trying to establish an empirical link between the cause and effect. That makes it unscientific.
 
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Hoghead1

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Good point about theistic evolution. I should know, I would easily fit in to that category. So, speaking from the inside, yes, my assumptions are heavily based on speculative metaphysics. I don't care what anyone says, science is great, but, by it's very nature, is not at all equipped to deal with the question of God. However, in systematic theology, we make a real effort to harmonize theology with the best scientific data. I draw upon evolution, in my thinking about God, and have concluded that creation is God's own self-evolution from unconsciousness into consciousness and self-actualization. Now, stop? Can I prove that scientifically? Could I or someone ever prove that scientifically? Absolutely no. I would be the first to admit that. As I say, I don't believe science has all the answers, and therefore some real degree of metaphysical (meaning "beyond physics") speculation is absolutely essential in theology.
 
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lesliedellow

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So we agree Theistic Evolution is not scientific.

Cool.

It is more scientific than creationism. It does not need endless special pleading, and endless ad hoc hypotheses, in order to make creationism seem half way credible even to creationists themselves.
 
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Hoghead1

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I hear you, -57. I think you are laboring under a serious misconception about what I am saying. So let me be a bit clearer.

I brought up the "had" issue, because a favorite defense used by online, anti-intellectual self-styed apologists is to argue that the contradiction could be explained away by translating Gen. 2 in the pluperfect tense. Therefore these apologists, with absolutely no knowledge of Hebrew, are arrogant enough to try and invalidate all biblical scholarship and all available English-language translations of the Bible. Why? Hebrew 101: There is no pluperfect tense in Hebrew, period, end of it. The scholars know this, the clergy know this, and the translators well know this, all the way back to the 16 century. That is why absolutely no major English-language translation of the Bible ever translate Gen. 2 in the pluperfect. Too bad many self-styled online apologists don't isn't it? Hence, this pluperfect defense hits the dirt day one in Hebrew 101.

I am not working out of some "Bible-hating" sites. I trust very little of is said online about the Bible and other related issues. Rather, I am working out of contemporary biblical scholarship.

If you feel strongly, as you apparently do, that these contradictions can be explained away, have at it. Don't just tell, show how to resolve these contradictions. However, I world encourage you to first review what has ben attempted and why al these attempts have failed. What use is the Bible if it has errors? Many Christians view the Bible as valuable and revelatory, despite its numerous contradictions and poor geophysics. Treasure in broken vessels.
 
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