The

[Minister Monardo]

M

 

[BobRyan]

Matthew 5:17 Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets.
I did not come to destroy but to fulfill.
to fulfill=[G4137] pleroo
G4137 - plēroō - Strong's Greek Lexicon (nkjv)
Galatians 6:2 Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.
===============================================
Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
the end=[G5056] telos -to accomplish, to realize, the full measure of...
G5056 - telos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Romans 10: 4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. (CEB) Common English Bible


Robertson’s Word Pictures –

The end of the law (telo nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation ( James 6:14 ; James 9:31 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Colossians 2:14 ) as in Luke 16:16 . Christ is the goal or aim of the law ( Galatians 3:24 ). Christ is the fulfilment of the law ( Matthew 5:17 ; Romans 13:10 ; 1 Timothy 1:5 ).

But here Paul's main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for "every one that believeth" whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.​

 

[Minister Monardo]

[

 

[pescador]

Romans 10: 4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. (CEB) Common English Bible


Robertson’s Word Pictures –

The end of the law (telo nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation ( James 6:14 ; James 9:31 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Colossians 2:14 ) as in Luke 16:16 . Christ is the goal or aim of the law ( Galatians 3:24 ). Christ is the fulfilment of the law ( Matthew 5:17 ; Romans 13:10 ; 1 Timothy 1:5 ).

But here Paul's main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for "every one that believeth" whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.​

Obeying the OT laws never saved anyone, ever. The purpose of the law is to make people aware of their sins. The fulfillment of the law is Christ.

 

[BobRyan]

Obeying the OT laws never saved anyone, ever. The purpose of the law is to make people aware of their sins.

that is true in the case of the lost -- but for the saved we have this

Rom 3:31 - "our faith establishes the law"
Rom 2:13 - "doers of the law"
Rev 14:12 - "saints keep the commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 - "this is the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Jer 31:31-34 " Law of God written on the heart - under the NEW Covenant"
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you Love Me - Keep My Commandments"

Where the "commandments of God" include the unit of ten having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2​

 

[BobRyan]

The Law was the means by which men could draw near to God, and not be obliterated.

Not if they were not saved. Law could not protect the lost.

"Christ our PASSOVER has been slain" 1 Cor 5.

Following God's Word for sins forgiven was to express faith in Christ - which is how the Gospel has always worked.

Heb 10:4 "the blood of animals never forgave sin".

Matt 17 - Moses and Elijah stand in glory - WITH Christ -- by the blood of Christ alone - even before the cross.

There is only "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

 

[pescador]

that is true in the case of the lost -- but for the saved we have this

Rom 3:31 - "our faith establishes the law"
Rom 2:13 - "doers of the law"
Rev 14:12 - "saints keep the commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 - "this is the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Jer 31:31-34 " Law of God written on the heart - under the NEW Covenant"
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you Love Me - Keep My Commandments"​

You can't mix OT law and NT grace. Romans 7:4-6, "So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you could be joined to another, to the one who was raised from the dead, to bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful desires, aroused by the law, were active in the members of our body to bear fruit for death. But now we have been released from the law, because we have died to what controlled us, so that we may serve in the new life of the Spirit and not under the old written code."

Is there something about what this clearly says (with my emphases) about Christians and the OT law that you don't understand? Christians are not under the law. It is a denial of Christ to say otherwise.

 

[BobRyan]

...
for the saved we have this

Rom 3:31 - "our faith establishes the law"
Rom 2:13 - "doers of the law"
Rev 14:12 - "saints keep the commandments of God"
1 John 5:3 - "this is the Love of God that we KEEP His Commandments"
Jer 31:31-34 " Law of God written on the heart - under the NEW Covenant"
Ex 20:6 "love Me and KEEP My Commandments"
John 14:15 "if you Love Me - Keep My Commandments"

Where the "commandments of God" include the unit of ten having "'honor your father and mother' as the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2​

You can't mix OT law and NT grace.

Your response to those texts above reveals that your argument is "with the text"

only ONE Gospel Gal 1:6-9 and that ONE Gospel was preached to Abraham Gal 3:8 -- ...

So once again we see that actual Bible details matter.

and as it turns out - Abraham is one of the OT giants of faith held up before all NT saints as a role model in Heb 11. Bible details matter which means that EVEN in the NT it is still a sin to "take God's name in vain" Ex 20:7..

An "easy" Bible detail admitted to by Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate - as we saw here -- The moral law of God includes the Ten Commandments

 

[Minister Monardo]

Not if they were not saved. Law could not protect the lost.

Saved?
An unbeliever would neither attempt or desire to draw near to God.
The topic of Romans 10:4 is not salvation, but righteousness.
"the end of the Law for righteousness"
the goal of Christ is clearly stated:
Philippians 3:
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship
of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
11 if, by any means, I may attain to the resurrection from the dead.

The goal of the Law was not salvation, but reconciliation, "that we may know Him"
Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death
of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

As was already pointed out and ignored:

The "method" or "means" of salvation is in knowing the Savior
John 17:3 And this is eternal life, that they may know You,
the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

Where do the Law and Christ meet? Obedience!
2 Corinthians 10:5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against
the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ.

The obedience of Christ is a higher standard than obedience to Law.
The goal of Law is the ministry of condemnation, by which the world stands
convicted for sin before God. The ministry of righteousness, which is
by the Spirit, is unto the glory that excels over the glory found on Moses
in the giving of the Law.
2 Corinthians 3:
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness
exceeds much more in glory.
10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect,
because of the glory that excels.
Matthew 5:20 For I say to you, that unless your righteousness exceeds
the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, you will by no means
enter the kingdom of heaven.

As we seek the Truth, certain standards must be met.
“By the mouth of two or three witnesses every word shall be established.”

An outlier translation of a verse:

Romans 10: 4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. (CEB) Common English Bible

"Goal" is not a correct translation. The lexicon of the Greek word was provided in the OP.

Romans 10:4 For Christ
s the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

the end=[G5056] telos -to accomplish, to realize, the full measure of...
G5056 - telos - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

While supporting that translation with an even more wretched commentary statement:

Robertson’s Word Pictures –

The end of the law (telo nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation ( James 6:14 ; James 9:31 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Colossians 2:14 ) as in Luke 16:16 . Christ is the goal or aim of the law ( Galatians 3:24 ). Christ is the fulfilment of the law ( Matthew 5:17 ; Romans 13:10 ; 1 Timothy 1:5 ).

James 6:14? James 9:31? Seriously!
The Law was never a means to salvation, merely temporary reconciliation.
Responding with a different translation of the verse in discussion, supported by
some guys comments does not come close to meeting the standard of truth.
The scriptures Robertson quotes are off-topic.

The goal or aim of Christ is to meet and exceed the righteous requirements of Law,
by the righteousness of God.
Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish
their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. (By Faith).

The reconciliation found in Christ is the end of the Law for righteousness for those
who believe, because it is permanent, enduring, eternal.
"Nothing can separate us from the love of God, in Christ" Romans 8:31-39

The topic is righteousness, not salvation, and the goal or aim is not salvation,
which many define as "knowing you go to heaven when you die" but this prophetic
Word of Truth:
Luke 1:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.
This provides us with "a knowledge of salvation".
77 To give knowledge of salvation to His people
By the remission of their sins,
78 Through the tender mercy of our God,
With which the Dayspring from on high has visited us;
79 To give light to those who sit in darkness and the shadow of death,
To guide our feet into the way of peace.

That is, if you can receive it!
Luke 1:67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied....

There is only "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 and that Gospel was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

Yes, there is One Gospel, and these scriptures don't even come close to a useful
summary of what that entails. The thread is not about being saved, it is about
serving as "instruments of righteousness".

Romans 6:
13 And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin,
but present yourselves to God as being alive from the dead, and your members
as instruments of righteousness to God.

G3696 - hoplon - Strong's Greek Lexicon (kjv)

Instruments of Righteousness are "weapons and armor".
2 Corinthians 10:
4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God
for pulling down strongholds,
5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself
against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity
to the obedience of Christ.

But here Paul's main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for "every one that believeth" whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.

Method of salvation? Do you mean this?
1 John 3:
7 Little children, let no one deceive you. He who practices righteousness is righteous,
just as He is righteous.
10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever
does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

An "easy" Bible detail admitted to by Bible scholars on BOTH sides of the Sabbath debate - as we saw here -- The moral law of God includes the Ten Commandments

Keeping the Sabbath and the Ten Commandments does not make you righteous by
the standard of Christ. Avoiding sin is not practicing righteousness.
The power of the Cross and of His resurrection is the power to love,
by the laying down of our life for the sake of others.
This is the aim and goal of the Gospel of Christ.
The Law leads you to Christ out of the desire to live a life
that is pleasing to His Father, free from sin and the works of the devil.

John 13:34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another;
as I have loved you, that you also love one another.

 

[BobRyan]

The Law was the means by which men could draw near to God, and not be obliterated.

Not if they were not saved. Law could not protect the lost.

Saved?
An unbeliever would neither attempt or desire to draw near to God.

let's read Rom 8 to see that the lost do not keep/obey God's Word

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Let's read Rom 2 to see some lost people claiming otherwise
Rom 2:
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

 

[BobRyan]

The goal of the Law was not salvation, but reconciliation, "that we may know Him"
Romans 5:10 For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death
of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.

hmm... "Christ is the reconciliation of the law"??? that is your proposal..??

"goal"/objective appears to be correct in Rom 10

Romans 10: 4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. (CEB) Common English Bible

Robertson’s Word Pictures –

The end of the law (telo nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation ( James 6:14 ; James 9:31 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Colossians 2:14 ) as in Luke 16:16 . Christ is the goal or aim of the law ( Galatians 3:24 ). Christ is the fulfilment of the law ( Matthew 5:17 ; Romans 13:10 ; 1 Timothy 1:5 ).

But here Paul's main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for "every one that believeth" whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.​

===========

Gal 3 makes the same point -- it leads the lost to Christ

 

[Minister Monardo]

Not if they were not saved. Law could not protect the lost.




let's read Rom 8 to see that the lost do not keep/obey God's Word

4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who are according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who are according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace, 7 because the mind set on the flesh is hostile toward God; for it does not subject itself to the law of God, for it is not even able to do so, 8 and those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Let's read Rom 2 to see some lost people claiming otherwise
Rom 2:
17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you,” just as it is written.

And this has what to do with drawing near to God?
Isaiah 29:
13 Therefore the Lord said: Inasmuch as these people draw near with their mouths
And honor Me with their lips, but have removed their hearts far from Me,
And their fear toward Me is taught by the commandment of men,
14 Therefore, behold, I will again do a marvelous work
Among this people, A marvelous work and a wonder;
For the wisdom of their wise men shall perish,
And the understanding of their prudent men shall be hidden.

A clear distinction must be made from those who think they are near
to God, particularly because they have the Torah, and those whose
heart is in it, and whose heart abides in the Holy Spirit.

 

[Minister Monardo]

hmm... "Christ is the reconciliation of the law"??? that is your proposal..??

Nope. Not what I said.

Gal 3 makes the same point -- it leads the lost to Christ

The Lost?
It leads those who have been under it's tutorship to Christ. I suppose you could
include them among "the lost", but as the Lord pointed out, they thought that they would
find eternal life in the study of Torah.
John 5:
39 You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life;
and these are they which testify of Me.
40 But you are not willing to come to Me that you may have life.

So we see that devotion to Torah can actually become a stumbling
block preventing those who so desire to enter into life.
Matthew 23:
13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up
the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves,
nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.

 

[BobRyan]

"goal"/objective appears to be correct in Rom 10

Romans 10:4 Christ is the goal of the Law, which leads to righteousness for all who have faith in God. (CEB) Common English Bible

Robertson’s Word Pictures –

The end of the law (telo nomou). Christ put a stop to the law as a means of salvation ( James 6:14 ; James 9:31 ; Ephesians 2:15 ; Colossians 2:14 ) as in Luke 16:16 . Christ is the goal or aim of the law ( Galatians 3:24 ). Christ is the fulfilment of the law ( Matthew 5:17 ; Romans 13:10 ; 1 Timothy 1:5 ).

But here Paul's main idea is that Christ ended the law as a method of salvation for "every one that believeth" whether Jew or Gentile. Christ wrote finis on law as a means of grace.​

===========

Gal 3 makes the same point -- it leads the lost to Christ

The Lost?

It leads those who have been under it's tutorship to Christ

because it convicts them of sin - and reveals that they need a Savior - as we seen in Gal 3.

23 But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. 24 Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 26 For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus.

Gal 1:6-9 - only ONE Gospel in all of time
Gal 3:8 - that Gospel was preached to Abraham

In the OT - the New Covenant includes adoption into the family of God, by faith - Jer 31:31-33

Which is how we see Moses and Elijah standing with Christ in glory in Matt even before the cross.

GIANTs of Faith in Heb 11 are all OT.

4 By faith Abel offered to God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, through which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts; and through it he being dead still speaks.

5 By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death, “and was not found, because God had taken him”; for before he was taken he had this testimony, that he pleased God. 6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.

7 By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

Faithful Abraham
8 By faith Abraham obeyed when he was called to go out to the place which he would receive as an inheritance. And he went out, not knowing where he was going. 9 By faith he dwelt in the land of promise as in a foreign country, dwelling in tents with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise; 10 for he waited for the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.