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Dan1988

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For many years, I experienced and believed Christianity had no real down side. It was a happy, easy and rewarding life, everyone should jump at.

I use to teach “we (Christians) all sin lots of times and cannot keep from it, but we are constantly being washed by the blood of Christ, so we are without sin in that case.” That was before I met a group of Christians that risked death for themselves and others by sinning, just any sign of not doing what Christ would be doing in that moment. Here is what happened:

I got thrown into (volunteering if needed) with the youth (13-21 age) prisoners program teaching Bible (one hour on Sunday morning to a group of 14 with three other Christians teaching groups of 14) and I was teach three groups of “Christians”. The first group were guys (going to school it is called) that start out causing trouble and getting thrown in the tank. Then they start increasingly attending the Bible services, carrying their Bible, being nice, eventually being baptized and saying they are Christian. By the time the parole board meets they have this glowing report showing continued improvement tied to their increased spirituality and are released and they were fun to teach. These guys still carry weapons, are members of a gang, and every prisoner knows they just “went to school” to get out. The second group were converted before they went to prison (grandma conversions), but would the first day watched raunchy TV, hung with a loss group, laugh at off colored jokes, were not always talking about Jesus and were not trying to convert others. Their first day in prison the snitches see this, the snitches talk to the Bulls that approach these “Christians” saying you are not a Christian (doing everything Christ would do) and make them a slave (often sexual) or at best a gang member. They still come to Bible study on Sunday, good students, so they can tell Granny (who visits them Sunday afternoon) what they learned, but they are slaves (sometimes sexually) to some bull. The third group is fanatical, they stick close to each other, they: study, pray, witness to everyone, and avoid even a hint of insincerity that the snitches could see. They carry no weapons, but step between those that are being beaten especially persecuted. This group had grown over the last 3 years from just a couple of guys to now 42, but it came at a high price. Each convert had on the day he was baptized given up the protection of his gang membership, turned over his weapons along with all his possessions (the gang owns everything including them), they were beaten if not by the gang they left, then by other gangs looking for payback and then they were watch constantly looking for any sign the snitches might interpret as weakness (anything less than what Christ would do in the situation, would result in a beating and it could be to death). There is absolutely no privacy and these Christians never wanted to be found alone. They slept in barracks where at least one stayed awake all night praying over them so they could sleep without the fear of being smashed in the head in the middle of the night. These guys believed and counted on power from the Holy Spirit, I did not know existed. They come battered and bruised each week hungry for some real meaningful Christ like lesson that goes beyond their group study of 40+hours that week on the same subject, which I could not provide. They mostly helped me with my poor example of Christianity and lack of knowledge and lack of wisdom. They mentored me even though they were only Christian for a few months, but I was a poor disciple and could not keep up with them.

They really did not talk about “not sinning”, but what better thing they could be doing each and every minute of the day and night. If they did sin, even with their thoughts, they confessed immediately to everyone (all around so the snitches could hear it also), asking for help, prays and ideas on doing better, yet this was not a daily action for everyone.

It is not so much not wanting to sin, but wanting to be a Christ like Christian (witness). This was not done to please the guards because the guards did not like them witnessing to them and the fact others might beat on them caused them added work to break up the beatings.

Maybe we do not see the Spirit working in us because we quench Him or are not in situations of really needing Him. Severe persecution brings out the Spirit in those who have the Spirit.

I really feel some did go days without sinning or should I say: “Some went days doing stuff the Holy Spirit could participate with them 24 hours.”
Everyone's faith will be tested with fire at some stage.
The Bible teaches that fire purifies gold, it burns off the dross. We don't need to be in prison, for God to purge us.
God uses many different means to refine His children. Whether we find ourselves in jail or in a cancer ward or homeless or in a famine in Africa.

Your absolutely right in saying that we grow in our faith when we suffer affliction or persecution.
This is why millions of people have turned their back toward God, in the rich west while millions in third world countries are being converted.

We see the Jews turned their back toward God, after He blessed them with freedom and riches.

When my Church goes door knocking, we find the rich people in big houses show no interest in the Gospel and those in small humble dwellings are open to hear the Gospel.
 
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bling

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Everyone's faith will be tested with fire at some stage.
The Bible teaches that fire purifies gold, it burns off the dross. We don't need to be in prison, for God to purge us.
God uses many different means to refine His children. Whether we find ourselves in jail or in a cancer ward or homeless or in a famine in Africa.

Your absolutely right in saying that we grow in our faith when we suffer affliction or persecution.
This is why millions of people have turned their back toward God, in the rich west while millions in third world countries are being converted.

We see the Jews turned their back toward God, after He blessed them with freedom and riches.

When my Church goes door knocking, we find the rich people in big houses show no interest in the Gospel and those in small humble dwellings are open to hear the Gospel.
I agree with the need for severe persecution in the West and the resent government crack down on the Chinese students has impacted some of my Communist Chinese students who I worry are not yet ready to return home.
I do want to relate a story about door knocking. I tend to avoid knocking on the rich person's home until I saw some Later Day Saints going into a Rich person's home I had earlier pasted by. Everyone needs the Lord.
 
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Behold

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I don't know how you can have anything "proven" as I have never communicated with you, and this will only be my twelfth post on the website in the week or so that I've been here, but I am sure that my single, facetious, post speaks volumes about my spirituality and understanding of grace and soteriology. But besides that, what could you possibly know about me? Anyway, who are you to judge another man's servant? (Rom 14:4)

Doug

You are easy to discern.
Im just responding to your posts.
Also, your verse isn't related to your argument.
 
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Behold

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When a Christian has come to repentance (change of heart) they will no longer want to do some of thing things they used to. Yes, they will fall short and sin for rest of their lives.

Actually YOU are the one falling short and sinning.
This is because you have not learned how to walk in the Spirit so that you don't sin.
And apparently you would rather keep teaching the devil's lie that Christians are doomed to keep sinning, instead of leaning for yourself how to stop your carnal behavior.
 
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Behold

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They really did not talk about “not sinning”, but what better thing they could be doing each and every minute of the day and night.

Its not a "better thing" to be sinning while trying to do good works.
The better thing, is to learn how to walk in the Spirit so that you stop sinning.
THEN, your works and discipleship have become the same..... vs, some sinning Christian, who is also doing good works.
The BETTER THING, is to live a perfected discipleship, and do good works.
That's what you want to be found doing.......not, doing good works, while you are sinning and repenting, at the same time., as that is a failed Christianity.
See, unbelievers do good works........and they SIN.
So, if the Christian is doing good works and sinning then what is the difference between the Christ Rejector and the Born again, if both lives are SINNING and doing good works.?

So, we are not to be living in sinning and repenting and doing good works.
Thats a Christian failure, and is not what we are to be found doing.
 
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Behold

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I'm very different to the unbeliever, as all of my past present and future sins have been paid for by Christ. So I'm 100% guaranteed eternal life in paradise, I already posses eternal life and nothing will snatch it away. I wouldn't exchange it for the world.

My sins won't be counted against me, as they have been taken care of once and for all.

I still have a $1.4 million estate to giveaway to anyone who can abide for a couple of hrs without sinning. I'm not joking, I'm 100% sure that no human has ever been able to achieve the impossible except for Christ who is almighty God.

Talking like a fool, is to be found to be so, Dan.

Be careful of what you are teaching. As you are teaching that the Cross has no power to deliver the born again from carnal behavior.
 
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Behold

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A coma can't remove the sin nature, so the person is still dreaming of lustful activity with strange flesh.
If we consider those who give up their time and money to feed the homeless, and any other good works are seen by God as filthy rags then we can imagine how much more dirty grievous sin is in His sight.
Our holiness is as dung, in God's sight. We do good works in order to gain a reward in heaven. So God see that the motive as selfish and wicked, your better off admitting that your a sinner.

The OP is like the Pharisee in Luke 18:9-14, who said "I thank God that I'm not like Dan, the tax collector" :)

The "sin" nature, is the "old man", and this died with Jesus on the Cross.
Paul says, "how can we (born again) who are dead to sin, continue to sin".
You say......that Paul is a liar and that i must be also, as im teaching Paul's doctrine.
Try again, Dan.
We, the born again, are raised as a "new Creation".
There is no sin "in Christ".
"As Christ IS< so are the born again......in this world".
You should find this out for yourself, Dan.
"All that call on the name of the Lord, shall be saved".
Do that.
 
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JulieB67

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Actually YOU are the one falling short and sinning.
This is because you have not learned how to walk in the Spirit so that you don't sin.
And apparently you would rather keep teaching the devil's lie that Christians are doomed to keep sinning, instead of leaning for yourself how to stop your carnal behavior.

You're judging- which is a sin by the way. But yes, I know, you're covered.

You still didn't answer my question. If a Christian can't forgive someone will God forgive them?
 
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Behold

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You're judging- which is a sin by the way. But yes, I know, you're covered.

You still didn't answer my question. If a Christian can't forgive someone will God forgive them?

Im not judging.
Im quoting you.
You are on my Threads, telling believers that they will keep sinning.
That's what the devil teaches.
So, if you want to stop teaching the devil's LIE that a Christian will continue to sin, and can't stop, then i will stop quoting you saying it..
You decide.
 
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JulieB67

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Im not judging.
Im quoting you.
You are on my Threads, telling believers that they will keep sinning.
That's what the devil teaches.
So, if you want to stop teaching the devil's LIE that a Christian will continue to sin, and can't stop, then i will stop quoting you saying it..
You decide.

You still didn't answer my question. If a Christian can't forgive someone, will God forgive them?
 
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Behold

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You still didn't answer my question. If a Christian can't forgive someone will God forgive them?

Why dont you already know that all your sin is forgiven?
There is no sin that the blood of Jesus does not forgive, except for the sin of Christ Rejection.

So, if you read a verse that says....>"if you don't forgive, then you are not going to be forgiven"....Yet, all sin is forgiven and not only that its, REMOVED....
Then what you have to do, is read your verse in LIGHT of the Blood Atonement that came LATER.

Just like the New Testament replaced the Old...
Just like the New Covenant replaced the OLD...

Here is what Jesus said..
"if you don't believe that i am Messiah, the Savior, then you will die in your sin". = die unforgiven.
Notice He didnt say......"but just remember, my blood can't forgive you, if you don't forgive".

See, that verse does not exist after the CROSS.

Here is something you have to SEE......JulieB67.

Never take a verse that is written BEFORE Jesus died on the Cross, and try to make the Cross obey that verse.
Always use the Cross to rightly divide any verse that was written before the Blood of Jesus paid for the sin of the world.
Your verse is Matthew 6.
That verse came before the Cross and the Blood of Jesus which has now resolved your verse, in the lives of a believer.

So, that verse is not talking to the born again, as there are NONE in Matthew 6, JulieB67
Always notice who the verse it talking to..... and if the audience is not BORN AGAIN, then don't apply that verse literally to the Body of Christ... in most cases.
 
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JulieB67

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So, that verse is not talking to the born again, as there are NONE in Matthew 6, JulieB67
Always notice who the verse it talking to..... and if the audience is not BORN AGAIN, then don't apply that verse literally to the Body of Christ... in most cases.

Ok, Christ's entire ministry matters not to you before he died on the cross, got it. I will steer clear of your threads.
 
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bling

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Its not a "better thing" to be sinning while trying to do good works.
The better thing, is to learn how to walk in the Spirit so that you stop sinning.
THEN, your works and discipleship have become the same..... vs, some sinning Christian, who is also doing good works.
The BETTER THING, is to live a perfected discipleship, and do good works.
That's what you want to be found doing.......not, doing good works, while you are sinning and repenting, at the same time., as that is a failed Christianity.
See, unbelievers do good works........and they SIN.
So, if the Christian is doing good works and sinning then what is the difference between the Christ Rejector and the Born again, if both lives are SINNING and doing good works.?

So, we are not to be living in sinning and repenting and doing good works.
Thats a Christian failure, and is not what we are to be found doing.
In the Garden there were many trees and plants to eat from, which were not sin, but some could be "better" than others (help you more at the time). It is not only avoiding sin, but growing spiritually, which the Bible talks of rapid growth, so we are not just trying to avoid withering.
 
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Blood Bought 1953

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I don't mind you answering but that wasn't my point exactly. Of course after becoming a Christian your heart should be ready to forgive others.

This is kind of my point. If someone's heart isn't ready to forgive. Because we all know people out there like that. Christians and non Christians.

And if a Christian won't forgive someone, will God forgive them? I know Christians that have grudges.



And the OP (behold) is presuming to know what is in every Christians's mind. That is impossible. Only God is a heart knower. Behold has no clue to the thoughts of every Christian out there. Why they sin, etc. Why they want to continue in sin, etc. Everyone is on their own path, their own journey.



You think Christ's teaching is fear based and no longer is in effect after he died on the cross? If that's the case, what about his entire ministry? Is it no longer in effect? That doesn't make sense.




Under Grace, you are “ already” forgiven and the motive for forgiving others is not fear- based any longer.
You think Christ's teaching is fear based and no longer is in effect after he died on the cross? If that's the case, what about his entire ministry? Is it no longer in effect? That doesn't make sense



Jesus said if we did not forgive others, WE would not be forgiven.....no forgiveness means no Salvation , and what could be more FearFul than that?
Jesus said that if we had a lustful thought, we were as guilty as an Adulterer—-that’s very scary too!
 
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Behold

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Ok, Christ's entire ministry matters not to you before he died on the cross, got it. I will steer clear of your threads.

Please do. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

As i need for people to be able to comprehend that the bible has to be "rightly divided", and you don't even realize this, yet.
You can't just jam all verses together.....as you try to do, with no understanding of dispensations.

You have to rightly divide verses according to how they FIT, with other verses, in LIGHT of the New Testament, in Light of Paul's theology, as regarding changes that occurred because of the Cross.

See, people like you that just toss verses together, will take something like John the baptist baptizing Jews, and teach that this is "Gentile salvation", in the "time of the Gentiles'.
And the reason that its NOT, is because the CROSS has created a new situation, and when people like you don't realize this, and so many other changes in the NT that occur due to the Blood of Jesus, you do nothing but cause chaos and confusion with your backwards theology, on Forums.
So yeah, avoid my Threads, unless you just want to LEARN.
Thanks,


<B><
 
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Behold

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In the Garden there were many trees and plants to eat from, which were not sin, but some could be "better" than others (help you more at the time). It is not only avoiding sin, but growing spiritually, which the Bible talks of rapid growth, so we are not just trying to avoid withering.

If you are in Christ then Christ has your sin.
You don't.
 
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JulieB67

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unless you just want to LEARN

I do rightly divide the word, beginning to end, chapter by chapter, verse by verse.

See, people like you that just toss verses together, will take something like John the baptist baptizing Jews, and teach that this is "Gentile salvation", in the "time of the Gentiles'

Again, with the presumptions. You have no idea how I read the bible. Shall I make a presumption and say you are probably one of those who lump the entire house of Israel into Judah?, etc. And never move past salvation issues so you can get deeper into the Word? For example, there's a lot more written in the OT about the end times than in the NT. By your posts I can make presumptions as well and think you probably could care less about the OT.

And please, you don't even know what the real definiton of being born "again" means as noted by one of your threads. You actually are the one that has a lot to learn. Because if you don't understand the beginning you'll never understand the end. I'll leave you with that. And it's obvious you at this time don't even want to move past the milk of God's word into the real meat- God's overall plan. Hopefully you do one day.
 
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Dan1988

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The "sin" nature, is the "old man", and this died with Jesus on the Cross.
Paul says, "how can we (born again) who are dead to sin, continue to sin".
You say......that Paul is a liar and that i must be also, as im teaching Paul's doctrine.
Try again, Dan.
We, the born again, are raised as a "new Creation".
There is no sin "in Christ".
"As Christ IS< so are the born again......in this world".
You should find this out for yourself, Dan.
"All that call on the name of the Lord, shall be saved".
Do that.
I'm already saved, so I don't need to be saved again. I posses eternal life right now.
So I guess we interpret the Bible differently, that's OK we have 40,000 denominations all of them have different interpretations so they live according to their understanding.
Your interpretation is only one of 40,000 and your welcome to have it all to your self and I'll hold to mine.
Don't worry God knows about the confusion among fallen men, that's why He saves His elect out of this stupid cursed world.
God is not impressed with those who think they're smart and claim to understand the scriptures better than the next guy. Mans wisdom is foolishness in His sight and the self professing smarties are in for a big shock on judgement day.
 
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