The worst thing about Calvinism

Hammster said:

I'm curious. What do you think happens at regeneration? What can a saved person do that an unsaved person can not?

Click to expand...

In Psalms 51, David asked God to renew a right spirit within him. He needed to be spiritually renewed by God again because of his sins of adultery and murder. He was asking for a clean heart.

In other words, being born again spiritually once before does not guaranteee that one cannot fall back into sin and need to be born again spiritually yet again (and be restored back to God). We see this in the Parable of the Prodigal Son. When the son came home to the father (willing to repent), his father said he was dead and is alive again. This parable is talking in spiritual terms. The son was spiritually dead and he became alive again spiritually. This was because he returned home and was willing to repent to his father and before all of heaven.

As for what a believer can do after they are spiritual regenerated: Well, first, it is important for you to know that God can convict a person to a repent of their sins by reading God's Word. The parable of the sower. It is the condition of their heart that determines the acceptance of the seed into their heart. This is their choice to be the way they are because the Lord said to Cain that he had a choice to either sin or to do good (Genesis 4:7). They may read God's commands to love God and love others and desire that, and God can convict their heart to repent. Once a person repents of their sins sincerely, they are spiritually regenerated and will notice a change in their life. They will know that God lives inside of them and they will be different. They will have put addictive and sinful things out of their life because Jesus lives inside of them.

A person who has accepted God's Word and Jesus into their heart can understand the true meaning of what Scripture says. They are able to walk righteously according to the commands within the New Testament. They are able to love and do good not by just having a new heart or new regenerated spirit alone but because Jesus (God) lives inside of them. For there is none good but God. A believer allows the Lord to do the good work through their life. This is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus. Because it was Jesus doing the good work through them (with them cooperating with the Lord's will of course). God's people are not mindless slave puppets. They have to choose this day (every day) in whom they will serve. It is not some automatic thing. A person has to choose to preach the gospel. A person has to choose to help the poor. A person has to choose to love their enemies. A person has to choose to put sin out of their life, etc. But only these things are possible for God's people who have been born again spiritually and who have God living on the inside of them.


...

Hammster said:

Everything you said is incorrect. But you aren't interested in a discussion, so I'll leave it at that.

Click to expand...

Really? So Jeremiah 29:13 is not a true statement within the Bible?

"And ye shall seek me, and find me, when ye shall search for me with all your heart." (Jeremiah 29:13).


...

Hammster said:

Do you believe there are Tate's amongst the wheat?

Click to expand...

Tares or goats are not tares or goats because God made them to be that way. A person is a tare or a goat based upon what choices they make in this life in regards to the Lord. 1 Peter 1:1-2 says God elects based on God the Father's foreknowledge. This means God chooses those who are His based on what we know we are going to do. Election is not some kind of forced regeneration or anything. It merely means God has chosen us and prepared great things for us because of the choices He knows we are going to make in regards to Him.


...

To all who are Calvinist here:

If you want to challenge your belief in Calvinism (to see if it is really true), then I would encourage you to check out the 120 contradictions made by Calvinists at this link here:

120 Contradictions from Calvinists - Save the Perishing Blog


...

Jason0047 said:

But verse 13 says one will die spiritually if we (i.e. the reader who is a believer) is to live after the flesh vs. the alternative choice which is to live through the Spirit so as to mortify sin within one's life. (See Romans 8:13).

Click to expand...

If you are correct, then it just proves my point even more so.

Jason0047 said:

Another problem I have with Calvinism is that it over-emphasizes it's teachings above the gospel. Calvinists are all about election this and these guys are saved by God's divine will and not by any free will choice, etc. More focus is placed on Calvinistic election and Calvinistic determinism then the good news of Jesus Christ.

Also, if a Calvinistic preacher were to say to a crowd of people that they repent and believe in Jesus and be saved, it would technically be a lie because not everyone can repent and believe in Jesus according to him. That would be like telling people to do something that is impossible like telling them that they can fly if they jumped off a bridge, etc.


...

Click to expand...

If you could just deal with one topic per post, that would be great.

Calvinists believe that whoever repents and believes will be saved. So it's not a lie. Are you certain that you know about Calvinism?

Jason0047 said:

I believe Scripture teaches that Jesus suppressed His Omniscience during His earthly ministry to be a "type of Adam" (Where Adam was also limited in knowledge at one time). This does not mean God the Father and the Holy Spirit did not reveal things to Him. This does not mean His powers were stripped from Him. God cannot cease to be who He is. Jesus was still the second person of the Godhead or the Trinity and His power is just a natural part of who He is as God.

If you are implying God knows the reason as to why some should be saved and some should be damned, then this does not sound like traditional Calvinism that says God does whatever He pleases. It does not sound like Calvinism that says God just does what He does and you have to just deal with it whether you like it or not. That is how this argument started. You are saying I was trying to force my morality onto the situation. Now, are you implying that there is morality attached to why God saves some and damns others? Is God looking ahead into the future and seeing what people will do if they are regenerated? You said before this is close but you did not exactly say.... "yes." You are throwing down the "mystery" card as if that solves anything. There is only one conclusion that this can go if God is truly moral and good.



Scripture breathes as a whole.

"Have faith in God.” (Mark 11:22).

“Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.” (Acts of the Apostles 16:31). (cf 1 John 3:23).

“Believe the gospel” (Mark 1:15).

“But now commandeth all men everywhere to repent” (Acts of the Apostles 17:30).


...

Click to expand...

John 3:16 still isn't a command.

Jason0047 said:

Most Calvinists I have talked with will say God does what He pleases as in relation that morality does not come into the picture. I have talked with Calvinists who said that God creates darkness (evil). I have talked with Calvinists who believed God decreed sin (as if that was His divine will for us). When you say, "God does what he pleases" and you say no more, then this paints the wrong picture of God leading the reader to think God can do anything He wants (Which is contrary to His loving and good nature). In fact, I had to push you to say that God cannot act contrary to His good and loving nature when you should have clearly made this clear from the beginning. But you didn't do that.

Click to expand...

I quoted scripture. That you didn't take it at face value isn't my fault.

Jason0047 said:

As it is the same with GOD. God is not willing that ANY should perish but that ALL should come to repentance (2 Peter 3:9), and God desires all men to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).

Click to expand...

Taking texts out of context isn't the way to make a point. Well, it's not the right way, anyway.

Hammster said:

Taking texts out of context isn't the way to make a point. Well, it's not the right way, anyway.

Click to expand...

But you have to show the context in order to prove that, though. Just saying that does not make it so.


...

Jason0047 said:

Not true. God is obligated to save everyone because God's very nature is loving and good and He does not want to see anyone perish. God cares for all of His creation. Did you not admit to be me before that God cannot act contrary to his loving and good nature?

Click to expand...

Then your view of God paints Him as an abject failure. That's extreme sad.

Hammster said:

I quoted scripture. That you didn't take it at face value isn't my fault.

Click to expand...

The Calvinist quote of Psalms 115:3 can give people the wrong idea about God. They may think God can do whatever He pleases but this cannot be outside of His loving and good nature. There are Calvinists who would disagree with my statement here. They believe God created darkness and decreed sin and evil.


...

Jason0047 said:

This is why Calvinism fails. It by-passes the cross or de-emphasizes it over Calvinistic Election

Click to expand...

Actually, the only folks I see obsessed with the Reformed Theology view of election are non-Reformed Theology folks.

Jason0047 said:

But doesn't God just make the sheep? Doesn't God have the power to make them all to be sheep?

Click to expand...

If it pleased Him, sure.

Jason0047 said:

No. You have a choice. You can either clearly explain to me the morality behind why God saves some and does not save others or you have to admit there is a flaw in your belief because you cannot adequately explain the mystery as to why God saves some when He has the power to save them all; Or do you think God does not have the power to save them all?

Click to expand...

I have explained this over and over. And over again. I'm not sure what else I can say.

Jason0047 said:

The Calvinist quote of Psalms 115:3 can give people the wrong idea about God. They may think God can do whatever He pleases but this cannot be outside of His loving and good nature. There are Calvinists who would disagree with my statement here. They believe God created darkness and decreed sin and evil.


...

Click to expand...

Good grief. So I quote scripture, but because I'm a Calvinist you just assume a different meaning, one that assumes that I think God could sin? Really? I think your obsession over Calvinism is getting to you.

Jason0047 said:

Not true. God is obligated to save everyone because God's very nature is loving and good and He does not want to see anyone perish. God cares for all of His creation. Did you not admit to be me before that God cannot act contrary to his loving and good nature?

Click to expand...

Hammster said:

Then your view of God paints Him as an abject failure. That's extreme sad.

Click to expand...

Not at all. The Scriptures say many are called but few chosen. In Calvinistic terms this makes no sense. Many are not called. If we are to believe Calvinism here, why call to a dead corpse? The people who are chosen are those who choose to respond and act correctly before God. God designed things within His creation known as man to have free will. So God left it up to man to decide if He wants His salvation or not. God does everything He can to draw them, and convict them of their sin and to get the truth to them, but if they want their sin, then that is their choice. God is not going to force save anyone against their own will. It is not a flaw in God's plan for salvation here because God knew that only a few would be saved. For narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it. It is not narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that God regenerates so that they may find it. Scripture says, God knows who are his. So God did not need to force save anyone.


...

Jason0047 said:

But you have to show the context in order to prove that, though. Just saying that does not make it so.


...

Click to expand...

The whole section of 2 Peter 3 isn't even talking about salvation.

Context.

Hammster said:

Good grief. So I quote scripture, but because I'm a Calvinist you just assume a different meaning, one that assumes that I think God could sin? Really? I think your obsession over Calvinism is getting to you.

Click to expand...

That is great you believe in a different form of Calvinism. But I am telling you my past experiences with Calvinists before. Calvinism is all tied together in some way. There is an underlying problem to the whole thing.

Pleas answer this question:
Does God have the power to save all people?


...

Jason0047 said:

Not at all. The Scriptures say many are called but few chosen. In Calvinistic terms this makes no sense. Many are not called. If we are to believe Calvinism here, why call to a dead corpse? The people who are chosen are those who choose to respond and act correctly before God. God designed things within His creation known as man to have free will. So God left it up to man to decide if He wants His salvation or not. God does everything He can to draw them, and convict them of their sin and to get the truth to them, but if they want their sin, then that is their choice. God is not going to force save anyone against their own will. It is not a flaw in God's plan for salvation here because God knew that only a few would be saved. For narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that finds it. It is not narrow is the way that leads unto life and FEW be there that God regenerates so that they may find it. Scripture says, God knows who are his. So God did not need to force save anyone.


...

Click to expand...

You can't see how anemic this makes God? He is just trying and trying His hardest. Poor poor God.

I prefer a view of God who is sovereign over all. Like the Bible describes.