the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

[redleghunter]

We are saved due to God's (the Father's and Son's) actions, but God does not stop us from dying due to our own actions, as free moral agents. People are here to learn that. Because God wants the saved to fully understand, and appreciate fully, why everyone is not saved, especially since every Christian has relatives who are not. Professing to be a Christians does not make one part of Christ's church; and if that cannot make one part of his church neither can it keep one a part of his church. No one is justified unless they follow Christ. And since we are free moral agents all Christians have the privilege, according to God's will, to start and then stop, if they choose.

Yes some people know they will not stop. Some Christians were shown that by God. But all Christians do not know that, and God has not contacted all Christians. All the weeds didn't start out deciding to be weeds and claiming Christianity only as a pretense. Christ's invitation opened the door to all people who are living to be justified before God, not just present Christians. Yet all people aren't. Why? If it was as easy as only claiming Christianity, why wouldn't everyone do it, even non believers, as a backup plan since it is literally impossible to prove God nonexistent? The reason all people do not do that is because teachings in the Bible make people aware God requires much more than just claiming to believe in Christ.

All that to say, Christ opened the door for us to be justified before God. But if we don't continue to follow him we are not. Just like he does not come into the lives of those who don't invite him, he doesn't stay with those who choose not to follow him. It is Christ , the judge, that makes the determination of who can walk with him, and under what circumstances they can. Even the Father lays no restriction on his decisions about that. The book of John presents Christ's primary message as, "Follow me" (Christ). No one is justifies, sanctified, or set apart, without doing that.

From Romans 6:
1What then shall we say? Shall we continue in sin so that grace may increase? 2Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live in it any longer? 3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4We therefore were buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection. 6We know that our old self was crucified with Him so that the body of sin might be rendered powerless, that we should no longer be slaves to sin. 7For anyone who has died has been freed from sin.

8Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we will also live with Him. 9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God. 11So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

12Therefore do not let sin control your mortal body so that you obey its desires. 13Do not present the parts of your body to sin as instruments of wickedness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life; and present the parts of your body to Him as instruments of righteousness. 14For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace.


15What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not! 16Do you not know that when you offer yourselves as obedient slaves, you are slaves to the one you obey, whether you are slaves to sin leading to death, or to obedience leading to righteousness? 17But thanks be to God that, though you once were slaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed the form of teaching to which you were committed. 18You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.

19I am speaking in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. Just as you used to offer the parts of your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness, so now offer them in slavery to righteousness leading to holiness.

20For when you were slaves to sin, you were free of obligation to righteousness. 21What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death. 22But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves to God, the fruit you reap leads to holiness, and the outcome is eternal life. 23For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

So your theory is based on the failure of the Christian?

Since the will of God is our sanctification then how do we thwart God’s will for us?

 

[~Zao~]

All that to say, Christ opened the door for us to be justified before God. But if we don't continue to follow him we are not.

There’s no propitiation in that.

 

[Woke]

So your theory is based on the failure of the Christian?

Since the will of God is our sanctification then how do we thwart God’s will for us?

I don't teach theories about scripture. I only teach what scriptures say. That's why I warn against teaching things not in scripture. Ideas that arise out of religious thought, like OSAS.

Everything I wrote here is in scripture. You also saw, agreed , and posted that Christ recognizes Christians as both wheat (those saved), and weeds (those destroyed). That's no theory. It is God's message. God does not make anyone serve him. His will is that we choose if we want to, and choose if we don't. Just because he wants us to, he does not make us. Yes, that is his will for us. Therefore, he gave us our own will, and he gave us the privilege to use it, even if we choose against him. It's his purpose we use it to make our own choice. That also is part of his will.

We are here to learn why some do not accept God, and his love. Because only if we understand that can we fully appreciate why some must die, that their death is a necessity in the outworking of God's purpose, and why that is necessary. If we don't understand, we could be like the demons who followed Satan, who left God, thinking there was a better way.

Choice has to be a part of God's purpose, because of what God's purpose is. It is not tyrannical slavery, with him being the tyrant. Only choice can prove his rule is not. And only by anyone choosing Love, can death be conquered, because if not we kill each other. God wouldn't have to do that. We have that now. It's proven to us now.

Deuteronomy 30:
"19I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. So choose life, so that you and your descendants may live, 20and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"

 

[Woke]

There’s no propitiation in that.

Yes there is. Just because some don't accept Christ's invitation to walk with him receiving the blessings that arise from that, does not mean Christ did not offer that to them. God created Adam, Eve, Satan, and Michael. Just because only Michael stayed in God's favor does not mean there is no Love in God, or that he didn't offer life to the four. All four chose, and there was a consequence for every one of their choices.
God told them what those consequences would be. Just as he tells us.

And only by anyone choosing Love, can death be conquered, because if not we kill each other. God wouldn't have to do that. We have that now. It's proven to us now. God knows that if we do. And to follow God all people have to understand that.

 

[redleghunter]

I don't teach theories about scripture. I only teach what scriptures say. That's why I warn against teaching things not in scripture. Ideas that arise out of religious thought, like OSAS.

Everything I wrote here is in scripture. You also saw, agreed , and posted that Christ recognizes Christians as both wheat (those saved), and weeds (those destroyed). That's no theory. It is God's message. God does not make anyone serve him. His will is that we choose if we want to, and choose if we don't. Just because he wants us to, he does not make us. Yes, that is his will for us. Therefore, he gave us our own will, and he gave us the privilege to use it, even if we choose against him. It's his purpose we use it to make our own choice. That also is part of his will.

We are here to learn why some do not accept God, and his love. Because only if we understand that can we fully appreciate why some must die, that their death is a necessity in the outworking of God's purpose, and why that is necessary. If we don't understand, we could be like the demons who followed Satan, who left God, thinking there was a better way.

Choice has to be a part of God's purpose, because of what God's purpose is. It is not tyrannical slavery, with him being the tyrant. Only choice can prove his rule is not.

Deuteronomy 30:
"19I call heaven and earth as witnesses against you today that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. So choose life, so that you and your descendants may live, 20and that you may love the LORD your God, obey Him, and hold fast to Him. For He is your life, and He will prolong your life in the land that the LORD swore to give to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"

All you have given me is a subjective case and applied some verses where you deem fit your theory.

I’ve already presented entire passages in context showing God secures His elect.

Now you are taking me to Deuteronomy where God makes the Sinai covenant of the Law.

If you want you can present a case from the NT which shows someone who is a child of God goes back to being a child of wrath.

 

[redleghunter]

Yes there is. Just because some don't accept Christ's invitation to walk with him receiving the blessings that arise from that, does not mean Christ did not offer that to them. God created Adam, Eve, Satan, and Michael. Just because only Michael stayed in God's favor does not mean there is no Love in God, or that he didn't offer life to the four. All four chose, and there was a consequence for every one of their choices.
God told them what those consequences would be. Just as he tells us.

Yet we don’t have the same choices Adam and Eve had. Their covenant was obedience and they failed. Then they tried to cover their shame with fig leaves they fashioned. Instead God gave them animal skins showing He would provide their “covering.”

 

[redleghunter]

Everything I wrote here is in scripture.

Perhaps but applied eisegesis. Meaning you entered the text with your preconceived notion and made the Scriptures conform to it.

I presented the following which shows God chooses before the foundations of the earth, predestines His elect to salvation according to His will and purpose, calls them to salvation and seals them in the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

 

[Woke]

Perhaps but applied eisegesis. Meaning you entered the text with your preconceived notion and made the Scriptures conform to it.

I presented the following which shows God chooses before the foundations of the earth, predestines His elect to salvation according to His will and purpose, calls them to salvation and seals them in the Holy Spirit:

Ephesians 1: NASB

3Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, 4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him. In love 5He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,6to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. 7In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace 8which He lavished on us. In all wisdom and insight 9He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him 10with a view to an administration suitable to the fullness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things on the earth. In Him 11also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will, 12to the end that we who were the first to hope in Christ would be to the praise of His glory. 13In Him, you also, after listening to the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation—having also believed, you were sealed in Him with the Holy Spirit of promise, 14who is given as a pledge of our inheritance, with a view to the redemption of God’s own possession, to the praise of His glory.

Actually you denied what you say you believe in your quote above. When I told you God knows our (the elect's) futures, because he saw what we will do even before we were born, you said that is not true. Now you claim you are the one who said it is true. But you only admit that now, after I told you, and after you rejected it at first.

Your teaching OSAS can keep people from joining God's elect, since it teaches Christians they are not accountable. How do you know they will not sin because your teaching tells them there is no accountability? There is-See Peter quoted below. The fact is God knows who his elect is, but you don't. So when you teach Christians they are saved under any circumstances, OSAS, how do you know they will not sin because of that, if they believe you? You cannot know that, as you are not God.

I don't present Bible theories. I teach Christ. Most maybe all, I cannot remember, of the scriptures I've posted show that people die when not following Christ and his Father. And certainly all of those scriptures were written for Christians, to give them that message. Most every one was from the New Testament. I only remember one that wasn't. So your claim is that all those scriptures that teach death comes to ALL who do not follow Christ is my theory? Really good luck on getting readers to believe that. You stand a better chance at getting some to continue to believe OSAS, because their minds have already been tainted by that false idea.

Teaching OSAS, as you teach, is religious theory. That's proven to anyone who really knows scripture, whose mind has not been tainted. Because that statement or idea is found nowhere in scripture. Because it's not there, there is no reason to accept it, if a person was not first persuaded by attaching true scriptural ideas to it, and linking them to that false idea in attempts to persuade them. That's why you continue to post so many scriptures about other subjects, trying to link those other subjects to your false claim OSAS. And that's why I keep telling you those other ideas that are really in scripture, those that you post, have nothing to do with OSAS.

Let me give you a comparison:
1. The dog walked down my street.
2. I was bitten.

Just because both things happen, does not mean there is a necessary correlation.

Here's another, your type
1. We are saved by God's grace.
2. We are not saved by our own works.
3. It's God's will he redeem Christians, sanctify Christians, and give Christians everlasting life.

Yes, there is a correlation between those first two points, BUT, and this is a big but, those two ideas don't mean we cannot receive everlasting judgment due to our own works. Because there is no correlation between works that kill us, and the idea we are not saved due to works, or we are saved by grace. Point two only claims we are not saved by our works, many scriptures I've posted show our bad works can certainly cause our judgment. Just because God saves us through his actions does not mean we cannot cause our own death through our actions. Two totally different ideas.

Now look at the third point. Read Peter. God's will is that everyone receive salvation. But it is also his will that we follow him and his son, and that we do so because we choose to, not just because he wills us to. So just because he desires us to do that, he will not override our free will, and he will not turn away from his will and purpose for Christians to follow him. Too many other important things are involved with that are not affected if he gets rid of Christians who don't follow him. For instance, upholding morality, justice, love, peace, and everything else that makes the Kingdom better than our world."The Lord does not delay the promise, as some esteem slowness, but is patient toward you, not willing for any to perish, but all to come to repentance." 2Peter3:9 It's God's will that all be saved. But is that going to happen?

Saved by God's grace does not mean we will be saved in any unchanged condition. The Bible claims this, not me. Everyone has to follow God to be saved, and keep following him. God out of grace does not save anybody claiming Christianity. Why should he? That would defeat his purpose for saving anybody, wouldn't it?


Here, you asked for this, and I'll post the same under your post that actually asked for it.

"20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2Peter2:20-22

THERE IS NO ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED.
Paul and others, including myself, only know for sure because we have been shown that. Many Christians have not been shown, and some who could have remained accepted by God, left him. Some walked away, others left by God dishonoring behaviors. Now do I say that as a theory, or did Peter tells us?

 

[Woke]

All you have given me is a subjective case and applied some verses where you deem fit your theory.

I’ve already presented entire passages in context showing God secures His elect.

Now you are taking me to Deuteronomy where God makes the Sinai covenant of the Law.

If you want you can present a case from the NT which shows someone who is a child of God goes back to being a child of wrath.

"20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-22

 

[renniks]

The numbers on the bottom, are scripture verses?

maybe thats why?
look here;
( John 10:28, 29; Philippians 1:6; 2 Timothy 2:19; 1 John 2:19; Psalms 89:31, 32; 1 Corinthians 11:32; Malachi 3:6 )
( Romans 8:30 Romans 9:11, 16; Romans 5:9, 10; John 14:19; Hebrews 6:17, 18; 1 John 3:9; Jeremiah 32:40 )
( Matthew 26:70, 72, 74; Isaiah 64:5, 9; Ephesians 4:30; Psalms 51:10, 12; Psalms 32:3, 4; 2 Samuel 12:14; Luke 22:32, 61, 62

So? This interpretation of scripture is an anomaly in the history of the church.

 

[Woke]

So? This interpretation of scripture is an anomaly in the history of the church.

There is no anomaly. But God always gives us choice. There is no one that can snatch a Christian out of Christ's hand. But he can decide to leave. God will never prevent that. And all a Christian has to do to leave is stop following Christ. As Christ said if you love me you'll obey my commandments.

The scripture I posted in Peter shows how God views those who don't.

 

[Woke]

And remember, not every Christian is born again. In the United States Christian marriages end in divorce at the same rate as non-Chistian marriages. If that many can leave their marriage mate a lot of them can leave Christ.

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

"renniks,

So? This interpretation of scripture is an anomaly in the history of the church.

Unless you strengthen your objection it has no weight. Your idea itself is unscriptural in this way.

God uses men as Pastors and teachers as gifts to the church. They are not perfect, nevertheless, they serve at the command of God Eph.4.
I asked you to tell me what is your understanding of john6:37-44...let's see how this works for you . What is the passage teaching?

 

[ICONO'CLAST]

There is no anomaly. But God always gives us choice. There is no one that can snatch a Christian out of Christ's hand. But he can decide to leave. God will never prevent that. And all a Christian has to do to leave is stop following Christ. As Christ said if you love me you'll obey my commandments.

The scripture I posted in Peter shows how God views those who don't.

sorry, no...sanctification is not a works based idea. It is of grace also.

 

[Woke]

sorry, no...sanctification is not a works based idea. It is of grace also.

Your response to my post indicates that you believe that no Christian can leave Christ. That's against scriptures.
See James 4:4. Was James writing to Christians or non-Christian people?
Answer is he was writing Christian people. Actually the whole Bible, not just this letter of James proves God doesn't make anyone serve him, even after they start to. Anyone can stop that wants to if they choose to at anytime, making themselves enemies of God who definitely are not saved.

If you cannot understand that with all the scriptures we've shared I suggest clean up your life, and turn to God. Because if you don't see that by now something is preventing you, that I cannot help you with.

Go

 

[redleghunter]

"20If indeed they have escaped the corruption of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, only to be entangled and overcome by it again, their final condition is worse than it was at first. 21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than to have known it and then to turn away from the holy commandment passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:20-22

Perhaps the context is important in this chapter. Who is 'they' and 'these' in the chapter?

2 Peter 2: NASB

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.
Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, 11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. 12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; 15forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.

17These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”​

 

[Woke]

Perhaps the context is important in this chapter. Who is 'they' and 'these' in the chapter?

2 Peter 2: NASB

1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves. 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned; 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.

4For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but cast them into hell and committed them to pits of darkness, reserved for judgment; 5and did not spare the ancient world, but preserved Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6and if He condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah to destruction by reducing them to ashes, having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter; 7and if He rescued righteous Lot, oppressed by the sensual conduct of unprincipled men 8(for by what he saw and heard that righteous man, while living among them, felt his righteous soul tormented day after day by their lawless deeds), 9then the Lord knows how to rescue the godly from temptation, and to keep the unrighteous under punishment for the day of judgment, 10and especially those who indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires and despise authority.
Daring, self-willed, they do not tremble when they revile angelic majesties, 11whereas angels who are greater in might and power do not bring a reviling judgment against them before the Lord. 12But these, like unreasoning animals, born as creatures of instinct to be captured and killed, reviling where they have no knowledge, will in the destruction of those creatures also be destroyed, 13suffering wrong as the wages of doing wrong. They count it a pleasure to revel in the daytime. They are stains and blemishes, reveling in their deceptions, as they carouse with you, 14having eyes full of adultery that never cease from sin, enticing unstable souls, having a heart trained in greed, accursed children; 15forsaking the right way, they have gone astray, having followed the way of Balaam, the son of Beor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16but he received a rebuke for his own transgression, for a mute donkey, speaking with a voice of a man, restrained the madness of the prophet.

17These are springs without water and mists driven by a storm, for whom the black darkness has been reserved. 18For speaking out arrogant words of vanity they entice by fleshly desires, by sensuality, those who barely escape from the ones who live in error, 19promising them freedom while they themselves are slaves of corruption; for by what a man is overcome, by this he is enslaved. 20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. 21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them. 22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”​

You know they are Christian , just as everyone else does. James 2:17-18. James also wrote to Christians telling some of those he wrote to were not doing God's will, and for them there would be no salvation, that is of course unless they changed. Therefore, the writings of James, Jude, Peter, Paul, agree with the words of Christ. That some Christians will call on him when he comes, and yet he will deny even knowing them. Thus their salvation was dependent on their behavior. And because of their behavior they were not saved. That's why OSAS is a lie. It's proven a lie by the entire Bible. God always requires obedience from his servants. The only reason scriptures claim we are saved by grace is because we cannot show complete obedience. That's the only reason scriptures say grace, but that doesn't mean Christians can live a free for all, do what you want lifestyle and be saved. Those that do that will die.

Let me ask you, how many people do you personally know that have been contacted by God and shown they are living in his Kingdom? Because those are the type of Christians Paul, Peter, James, and Jude are. Many of the Christians they wrote to obviously were not, or they would not have written the messages they did. Spreading the lie to these that their behavior does not affect their salvation gives them license to sin, if they believe you. And it's proven by posters on this thread many believe that lie, which leads to the judgment of some.

I ask again how many people do you personally know that God has contacted and personally shown they will live in his kingdom? If you know any, and if what they say is true, then for only those Christians your acronym may have some merit. Because God doesn't lie. So I say might have merit because the person might be incorrect about God's contact. But the concept is not found in scripture. God doesn't personally show most Christians they live under his Kingdom. He didn't even do that in the apostles' day.