the work of God and OSAS are they exclusive of each other

[Vicky gould]

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

 

[Sketcher]

The way I see OSAS is it is all about the endgame. Take Peter, for instance. He denied Christ three times. But Jesus brought him back, and he knew he was going to bring him back (Luke 22:31-32). That coming back would not have been possible without the work of God. As for his in-between state? Irrelevant, because Jesus knew he was going to bring him back. And the Lord knows who are his (2 Timothy 2:19), so that's a good case for it applying to all of us.

Now, while the in-between state is irrelevant to the question of OSAS, it is not wasted. I believe that Peter was humbled as soon as he was convicted, and as the conviction and guilt wore on and ground at him. He was ripe for the comeback when Jesus called him back. It seems that is what Paul was hoping for in the case of the stepson as well.

 

[His student]

...... Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

He was indeed still a brother even while sinning.

God will do whatever He thinks is needed in order to bring a person out of their sin. But that does not include removing the Holy Spirit entirely from His sealing position in the believer.

Those He loves He disciplines. He does not stop loving the sinning son even as He disciplines him.

Now, while the in-between state is irrelevant to the question of OSAS, it is not wasted.

I don't agree that the in-between state is irrelevant.

I believe that it's important for us to know that one is not un saved and then re saved and then un saved and then re saved, as it were, every time they sin and repent.

 

[Woke]

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

I figured out what you mean by OSAS, but some might not. You might spell it out. Scripture agrees with the poster's comments right after yours. But just because a person is saved doesn't mean they always are. That idea contradicts a ton of scriptures. But let me just give one. In the book of Revelation Christ makes statements that because of certain behaviors he will wipe some names out of the book of life. The fact those names were in there means they were once saved. And Christ was speaking to Christians. That rules out the idea I have heard taught that everyone starts with their name in that book. They don't, because life in the book means everlasting life.

An example is Adam and Eve. But the whole idea contradicts tons of scriptures.

Now the fellow that offers the comment after yours realizes God sees the future, because where he lives the future already exists. God knows who obeys him in our futures because of that. He knows the sins we will commit, and he knows who will repent from those. Like the poster said God is looking at the end game. He put us here to learn. Those that learn here will live. Those that don't will die, even if they were once Christian. "He who has endured to the end will be saved. "Christ-I think that's at Matthew 24:13. Look it up. Plus John 3:17-19

Remember when the Devil asked Christ to worship him. And Christ's answer was, worship your God and serve him only. That's what believe in Christ means. It means acceptance of the truth that the Father and Son are God to angels and men, and especially to the one accepting that. Those that start and then stop accepting that will die, like Adam.

Chances are some will say we are saved by grace, not works, therefore once someone accepts Christ they cannot die. Not true. We are only saved by grace because none of us can do works to perfectly satisfy a standard God wants intelligent creators to live by. Saved by grace does not mean we don't live our lives to please God by our actions in order to receive our reward of life. It works this way. We are not saved by our works, but we can receive an everlasting death sentence because of them.

 

[Woke]

He was indeed still a brother even while sinning.

God will do whatever He thinks is needed in order to bring a person out of their sin. But that does not include removing the Holy Spirit entirely from His sealing position in the believer.

Those He loves He disciplines. He does not stop loving the sinning son even as He disciplines him.
I don't agree that the in-between state is irrelevant.

I believe that it's important for us to know that one is not un saved and then re saved and then un saved and then re saved, as it were, every time they sin and repent.

I could be wrong because I am speaking for another poster. But I took his statement that the in-between time is irrelevant as only meaning that it was not the outcome or finalizing the outcome of salvation or death.

Like he said God knows who are his own.

 

[Woke]

Hand that man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh? As our brother above brought out that was discipline to teach him the result of his sin. It was done to lead him to repentance. Paul didn't know if he would, but Paul referred to the result that would come to him if he did.

 

[redleghunter]

Hand that man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh? As our brother above brought out that was discipline to teach him the result of his sin. It was done to lead him to repentance. Paul didn't know if he would, but Paul referred to the result that would come to him if he did.

If we are speaking of the man mentioned in 1 Corinthians 5, then we learn in 2 Corinthians the man was restored after repentance.

 

[CharismaticLady]

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

The way OSAS has been taught in some churches is false. They fail to include the gift of Jesus to those who truly do believe in Jesus and love Him. He said, "If you love me, keep my commandments." And after He was crucified, resurrected and returned to heaven, He sent His gift - the baptism of the Holy Spirit. But this gift is not given to those who only know about Jesus and want Him to save them from hell, but don't really obey Him, making their belief, false. On the Day of Pentecost, Peter tells them what they must do to be saved - truly repent from sin. Repentance is the key to receiving Jesus' gift. Part of the baptism of the Holy Spirit is what the Spirit does in you. It kills the old carnal nature we are born with due to Adam's sin, and gives us a new nature. This is called being born again of the Spirit. Paul says in Romans 8:9, we are no longer in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit of God indwelling in us, and if we do not have the Spirit of Christ we do not belong to Him. You see it is more than what OSAS means today. That OSAS is false assurance.

Your question: "Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved" does not mean he dies and goes to heaven in that state of impurity. The "flesh" is his carnal nature, not his body of bone and muscle. His nature never died, making him a nonbeliever without the Spirit. In other words, he never repented. That is why he is being shunned, or excommunicated, whatever term you relate to, to drive him to actually see his sin and then truly repent. It would drive him to sorrow, so that he would repent, the missing key, and be filled with the Holy Spirit. That way his soul would be saved. So, no, it does not mean what you to believe is OSAS, saved no matter what sin you keep doing. That is false as you see by the passages you quoted. OSAS started in the Reformation. It was Luther's belief that the power of Jesus was strong enough to save you, no matter how heinous your sins were you keep doing, just love Jesus more than your sins. He said, "even if we were to commit murder and adultery 1000 times a day they would not separate you from God." But a true Christian with the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, has a new nature that hates sin, and loves righteousness. We see in 2 Cor., Paul's next letter after telling them to turn that one over to Satan, the man did repent and was saved, and didn't die in his sins as you believed. Today's whole teaching on OSAS has no place for obedience, and is an incomplete teaching that is very dangerous.

This doesn't mean that a true Christian (note I said "true") has no assurance at all. Just the opposite. As long as you never quench the Spirit and fall back into sin, and endure to the end, you will be saved. We are commanded to not quench the Spirit for this reason. That way we can walk in the Spirit of our new nature called the "divine nature." Read the whole chapter of 1 John 3, but I want to show you our assurance by jumping ahead to verses 18-19 and 21-23.

18 My little children, let us not love in word or in tongue, but in deed and in truth. 19 And by this we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before Him. 21 Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence toward God. 22 And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight. 23 And this is His commandment: that we should believe on the name of His Son Jesus Christ and love one another, as He gave us commandment.

Luther didn't know about the "and" that would never murder or commit adultery, or any other willful sin of lawlessness that are sins unto death (eternally) if never repented from so they may receive the gift of the Holy Spirit and be saved.

 

[redleghunter]

I could be wrong because I am speaking for another poster. But I took his statement that the in-between time is irrelevant as only meaning that it was not the outcome or finalizing the outcome of salvation or death.

Like he said God knows who are his own.

It is what some call the preservation of believers sealed in the Holy Spirit. David did not die in his sin nor did Peter as God convicted both (David through Nathan and Jesus directly towards Peter) of their sin. In both cases repentance was the response.

With Peter it had to be agonizing. He stood with Jesus when Jesus said those who affirm Him would be affirmed and those who deny Him would be denied before the Father. We know Peter both affirmed Jesus as Messiah by word (Matthew 16) and by deed by walking with Him. Then denied that he even knew Jesus three times.

Jesus restores Peter.

 

[Basil the Great]

Perhaps the biggest problem with OSAS is that it does not appear to be present with the Church Fathers in the first few centuries of the Church. Now this does not automatically mean that the doctrine is wrong, especially for those who believe in the evolution of doctrine theory, but it certainly should give everyone pause to wonder.

 

[redleghunter]

Perhaps the biggest problem with OSAS is that it does not appear to be present with the Church Fathers in the first few centuries of the Church. Now this does not automatically mean that the doctrine is wrong, especially for those who believe in the evolution of doctrine theory, but it certainly should give everyone pause to wonder.

The term OSAS no of course not. However the Scriptures testify that those who God chooses to be His people, when they have sinned they are led to repentance and restored. I gave two examples above.

 

[Daniel C]

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

It appears to me the people are asking Jesus how to reach God and they get their answer:


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.


Faith on Christ. Nothing about works.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

28 Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?29 Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” John 6

How do we understand these verses. Isn't this the thing taught through the jailer when asking what he must do to be saved and he was told to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." I am OSAS believer and look forward to all thoughts on this, is believing on the Lord Jesus Christ enough or did that jailer perish?

4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, a b so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord. 4So when you are assembled and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the day of the Lord.

A question if you would give your thoughts. There was a man caught in sexual sin with his step mother and they had let him continue in the church. Paul told them to put him out of the church but they were never to consider that he was not still a brother. Turn him over to Satan that his flesh be destroyed and his soul be saved. Is this not a glimpse of OSAS in Scripture?.

IMO:
If this man returns to the Church in repentance after Satan has had his way with the sinner then I would say he was saved, lost his way and came back into the Body of Christ. If the sinner is cast out and never returns to the Fold, then I would say He has rejected the Gospel after once having a taste of it.

 

[redleghunter]

Faith on Christ. Nothing about works.

The Scriptures do testify that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

 

[redleghunter]

IMO:
If this man returns to the Church in repentance after Satan has had his way with the sinner then I would say he was saved, lost his way and came back into the Body of Christ. If the sinner is cast out and never returns to the Fold, then I would say He has rejected the Gospel after once having a taste of it.

2 Corinthians 2 answers the question.

 

[Daniel C]

The Scriptures do testify that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Come on then let's it.

 

[His student]

I'm not completely sure what the question was meant to be in the OP nor where this is going now.

But I will say that the scriptures tell us for sure that He Who began a work in a believer will complete it.

Therefore if we, or the sinning man in Corinth, were ever saved and therefore God started a good work in us or him at some time - we will be saved in the end. That is after all the reason God began the good work in the first place. (Note the golden chain of salvation in Romans chapter 8.)

Neither we, nor the sinning brother in Corinth can ever hear the words "I never knew you".

That being the case - OSAS according to the scriptures - no ifs ands nor buts.

I.e. - we may well not hear the words "well done good and faithful servant". We may well be saved by the skin of our teeth, so as by fire, as it were. But we will be saved in the end and not lost.

I suppose it's quite appropriate to ask if a great sinner like the one in Corinth was ever saved. But, since Paul makes it clear that he was indeed a brother, there could be no doubt in Paul's mind that he would be saved in the end - no matter what it took to get him out of his sin - even death if need be. The same is true for us.

We have God's Word on that - coming from a number of angles and inescapably from any truly systematic consideration of the scriptures.

 

[redleghunter]

Come on then let's it.

?

 

[Daniel C]

The Scriptures do testify that we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

What exactly are you trying to say here? Feel free to add scripture that supports it so I might understand you better.

 

[redleghunter]

What exactly are you trying to say here? Feel free to add scripture that supports it so I might understand you better.

I actually quoted Ephesians 2:10.

We are saved only by the Finished Work of Jesus Christ.

We are made new creations in Christ Jesus for good works.