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Hi there,
One of our members said the following.
"God works through his word. Hearing comes by believing and believing the word of God. Jesus is the word and the ''word'' is now scripture."
Now this claim that Jesus is no longer the Word poses problems for me.
The theory is that since the scripture is written, Jesus is silent, as His voice is replaced by the scriptures. That means that believers who have the Holy Spirit inside must expect Him now to be silent. Anyone claiming to experience guidance from God is deceived as we now have the bible that has replaced God's voice.
While I hold the bible to be our God given authority on matters of faith and life, we can't understand it unless the Spirit of God speaks. Further no where do I read that the Voice of the Holy Spirit which the Apostles heard, is now silent. I will go as far as to say that those who hold this position and making an Idol out of scripture.
I hold the position that He wants us to enjoy a conversational relationship with Him through prayer as we walk with Him in 'the way' and that this leads to a beautiful life of faith as we hear and obey Him in the detail of life.
Your comments greatly appreciated.
If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, how can you trust anyone hearing voices in their head thinking it is God?Hi there,
One of our members said the following.
"God works through his word. Hearing comes by believing and believing the word of God. Jesus is the word and the ''word'' is now scripture."
Now this claim that Jesus is no longer the Word poses problems for me.
The theory is that since the scripture is written, Jesus is silent, as His voice is replaced by the scriptures. That means that believers who have the Holy Spirit inside must expect Him now to be silent. Anyone claiming to experience guidance from God is deceived as we now have the bible that has replaced God's voice.
While I hold the bible to be our God given authority on matters of faith and life, we can't understand it unless the Spirit of God speaks. Further no where do I read that the Voice of the Holy Spirit which the Apostles heard, is now silent. I will go as far as to say that those who hold this position and making an Idol out of scripture.
I hold the position that He wants us to enjoy a conversational relationship with Him through prayer as we walk with Him in 'the way' and that this leads to a beautiful life of faith as we hear and obey Him in the detail of life.
Your comments greatly appreciated.
If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, how can you trust anyone hearing voices in their head thinking it is God?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (KJV 1900)
He speaks through his word only if "thoroughly furnishes" means anything.Since when did God cease to speak to the believer?
If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, how can you trust anyone hearing voices in their head thinking it is God?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (KJV 1900)
The ability to discern when the Holy Spirit is speaking to us (or within us) and when He is not, comes through maturity and experience in both prayer and knowledge of the Scriptures.If scripture thoroughly furnishes us, how can you trust anyone hearing voices in their head thinking it is God?
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Timothy 3:16–17 (KJV 1900)
Elijah not only heard an audible voice but he also had a voice come TO HIM (one that he understood but didn't hear audibly).
John 10:4,5,27 YLT And when his own sheep he may put forth, before them he goeth on & the sheep follow him, BECAUSE they have known his voice. And a stranger they will not follow, but will flee from him, because they have not known the voice of strangers.' According as I said to you: My sheep my voice do 'hear' & I know them & they follow Me...(G193: 'akouousin', comprehend by hearing & listening to)
John 10:16 I have other sheep that are NOT of this fold. I must bring them in as well & THEY WILL LISTEN TO MY VOICE. Then there will be one flock & one shepherd.
Acts 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit & to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things...
(how did James know this?)
Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things AND so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey Him."
(how did all the apostles know this?)
Romans 8:5,9,14,16 Those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh; but those who live according to the Spirit set their MINDS on the things of the Spirit. You, however, are controlled not by the flesh, but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.
For all who are LED by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
The Spirit HIMSELF TESTIFIES WITH OUR SPIRIT that we are God’s children.
Acts 13:2-4 While they were worshiping the Lord & fasting, the Holy Spirit SAID, “Set apart FOR ME, Barnabas & Saul, for the work to which I HAVE CALLED THEM.” So after THEY had fasted & prayed, they laid their hands on them & sent them off. Then Barnabas & Saul, SENT FORTH BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, went down to Seleucia & sailed from there to Cyprus.
How did this whole group hear what the Holy Spirit SAID to them all? How did Barnabas & Saul KNOW they were sent out by the Holy Spirit, except they heard directly from Him.
Acts 10:19 While Peter was still thinking about the vision, the Holy Spirit SAID TO HIM, "Three men are here looking for you. Get up! Go downstairs & accompany them WITHOUT hesitation, BECAUSE I HAVE SENT THEM.”
(How did these men know they were sent by the Holy Spirit & how did Peter know they were sent also?)
Acts 11:12 Then THE SPIRIT TOLD ME TO GO WITH THEM, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man’s house.
Acts 8:29-31 The Spirit SAID TO PHILIP, “Go over to that chariot & stay by it.” So Philip ran up and heard the man reading Isaiah the prophet. “Do you understand what you are reading?” Philip asked.“How can I,” he said, “unless someone guides me?”
Acts 8:39,40 When they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord CARRIED PHILIP AWAY & the eunuch saw him no more, but went on his way rejoicing. But Philip APPEARED at Azotus & traveled through that region, preaching the gospel in all the towns until he came to Caesarea.
(How did that happen?)
I Tim 4:1 Now the Holy Spirit tells us clearly that in the last times some will turn away from the true faith; they will follow deceptive spirits and teachings that come from demons.
Acts 20:23 I only know that in town after town the Holy Spirit WARNS ME that chains & afflictions await me.
Acts 21:11 Coming over to us, he took Paul's belt, bound his own feet & hands & said, "THE HOLY SPIRIT SAYS: 'In this way the Jews of Jerusalem will bind the owner of this belt & hand him over to the Gentiles.'"
I Cor 2:9,10 Rather, as it is written: “No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no heart has imagined, what God has prepared for those who love Him.” For God has revealed it to us through the Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God.
Eph 3:5 ...Which was not made known to men in other generations as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to God's holy apostles & prophets.
Romans 8:26,27 In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know how we ought to pray, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groans TOO DEEP FOR WORDS. 27And He who searches our hearts knows the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit INTERCEDES for the saints according to the will of God.
He simply said, "Go up the hill by the pond."
the Spirit said, "Wait five minutes."
the Spirit woke me up out of a dead sleep & said simply, "Pray for your parents."
In various parts of the world, they don't have ready access to the Scriptures, led alone even one Bible or their Bibles are confiscated. So how does God communicate with His people?
Brother Andrew of 'Open Doors' ministry shares a story of needing to contact a Christian in a large 'state' church in the USSR.
Neither had ever seen each other, yet this Russian walked up to him & said you must be brother Andrew. He wanted to know how he knew him in this large crowd. This Russian brother told him that God gave him a dream & pictured Andrew before him. That is how he knew.
Your experience is proof that there are exceptions to the rule. The confirmation for her is that the Holy Spirit spoke to you with words like, "Be not afraid to marry this woman." And your subsequent life afterward proves that God was in it.Oscarr
I have already covered the issue of deception through 'telepathic voices' that is not the subject of the discussion. There will always be 'flakes'
I wouldn't be so quick to ridicule the matter of God telling a person who they should marry. This legitimately happens more often than you might think. 35 years ago a certain young woman was deeply shaken by a Word from Him to marry me as we hardly knew one another. This was tested by the 'spiritual oversight' and has proved to be totally genuine. We were married by one of the most solid saints in the country.
Your first two paragraphs I completely agree with.
We have to be careful no to throw the baby out with the bath water.
He still speaks to the believer, yes it needs to be tested, yes we need maturity and a good grounding in scripture. Lets not pretend He is silent within and teach others to ignore the indwelling Holy Spirit.
What country has confiscated all bibles from Christians in their land? Any place where there are churches (free or underground) God will provide a bible.
Your experience is proof that there are exceptions to the rule. The confirmation for her is that the Holy Spirit spoke to you with words like, "Be not afraid to marry this woman." And your subsequent life afterward proves that God was in it.
Here's something to consider when seeking extra biblical "revelations".The ability to discern when the Holy Spirit is speaking to us (or within us) and when He is not, comes through maturity and experience in both prayer and knowledge of the Scriptures.
I think that good decisions are made when there is the combination of maturity, experience, prayerfulness, knowledge of the Scriptures, and plain common sense, using the brain that God gave us.
Those who purport to hear a "voice" telling them that a certain young woman has to be their wife, or that a particular business has to have the contract for the church roof, or that one should seek fame and prosperity, are just using God to promote their fleshly and selfish desires.
I can pray concerning a young woman whom I fancy, and then go through the normal process of dating and wooing her, and if she feels the same about me, things can have a positive outcome and we both may know that God has led us together.
I can also pray about a particular business that might be the best for doing the church roof, and as an elder of the church I can put the issue on the agenda at the next elder's board meeting, discuss the possibility and come to consensus that this business is the most appropriate and cost effective one to do the job.
As part of our relocation to another city, we are in the process of selling our home. We had to choose realtor to handle the sale. We first consulted one whom we know personally to do an appraisal, and he seemed okay, but I kept on having a desire to consult with another realtor whom I knew who I know as an honest and professional person although not one in our area. So I spoke with her, and she gave me advice which was pretty good and referred me to another agent from her firm, in our area. I found out that she and the other agent are the top selling agents in the particular real estate firm. So we engaged the agent she recommended. The agent is being very thorough, professional, hard working, and very supportive of us to get us the best price she can for our home. Only today, I found out that she is a member of a Pentecostal church in our suburb, and a mature, committed Christian! I never knew that until today, so, I am persuaded that God has provided the best agent to sell our home, and it just strengthened my trust in Him that He is involved in what we are planning to do. The only "voice" in my mind that I perceived was, "Have a talk to Wendy before you make any decision about an agent". It wasn't so much of a telepathic voice, but a sort of impression that it would be a good thing to do.
So, it is not a matter of blindly following some telepathic voice, but using wise judgment, tempered by prayer and knowledge of Scripture, and just plain common sense!
Religious affiliation and psychiatric disorder among Protestant baby boomers. - PubMed - NCBI Why so much mental health trouble with Charismatics. You don't see in mainline Churches?This passage speaks of the importance of the inspired scriptures preparing one's self for Ministry. It is not a statement conveying that the Holy Spirit no longer speaks to believers personally via the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.
I have smuggled bibles into China in the 80's twice and they were very sought after. Many folk were unable to get their hands on one.
Actually it happened pretty fast - engaged in 3 weeks and married in 3 months. It was pretty cerebral as well - I made a list of about 20 things that would make sense if He was choosing me a life partner. I looked at the list and looked at the lady and there was a complete match.
My prayer partner at the time who is now an AOG Pastor had a vision of a sudden change in my life circumstances on the very day she broke the news about her 'word'. A prayer group down South who had been praying for me for 7 years looked at one another and felt there was no need to pray any longer at the time she got the 'word'. Further at the very time she got the 'word' I was on a retreat and 'saw' a dove coming down from the sky in flames - so I knew He was doing something dramatic (but I didn't know what)
Now you might think I am in idiot giving this sort of detail and running the risk of being considered a flake but frankly I don't care, and will continue to testify because there are plenty of folks out there scared to relate this sort of detail because of the naysayers and false accusers.
He is at work among those who truly seek Him and will not remain silent.
If God didn’t tell her personally and she be willing to accept man's word, not waiting on God’s Word for herself is just foolishness.I wonder how many young women have married a man after he told her "God told me you are to be my wife" not because she loved him, but because she did not want to disobey the Lord.
I know of many charismatic churches that have had huge disputes when someone claimed they were given "a word from the Lord" over some practical matter which the others disagreed with. There are even "duelling prophets" claiming to have contradictory prophecies.
Clearly the idea of God giving instructions via a person's thoughts is wide open to abuse, as well as being unbiblical.
I wonder how many young women have married a man after he told her "God told me you are to be my wife" not because she loved him, but because she did not want to disobey the Lord.
I know of many charismatic churches that have had huge disputes when someone claimed they were given "a word from the Lord" over some practical matter which the others disagreed with. There are even "duelling prophets" claiming to have contradictory prophecies.
Clearly the idea of God giving instructions via a person's thoughts is wide open to abuse, as well as being unbiblical.
Here's something to consider when seeking extra biblical "revelations".
Religious affiliation and psychiatric disorder among Protestant baby boomers. - PubMed - NCBI
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