the virus

[solid_core]

Why what? Why people with less ability to fight things like this off are dying?

Why these "accidents" happen in the USA/UK and not in Germany.

Why the nursing homes in Germany are not as infected as in the USA, for example. When USA had more time to prepare.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I think this is a problem. I'm not sure what a mild case seems to be. (and is there anything between mild and severe?) Knowing will help avoid congestion at the hospitals and clinics (and reduce the number of contacts medical personnel have with the sick) and keep some of the contagious at home.

The only thing that seems clear from individual reports of sickened people is about who is not hospitalized. They have fevers (but not dangerously high ones), heavy cough, aches, and severe exhaustion. These frankly sound like what I would characterize as fairly severe, but not dangerous, symptoms when I've had a cold or other virus in the past.

The range of responses and frequency of them is not very clear at the moment. That's part of the problem with a novel illness.

So basically you are saying that they do not know what a mild case is? If that is the case, how can they say that over 90% of cases are mild?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Why these "accidents" happen in the USA/UK and not in Germany.

Why the nursing homes in Germany are not as infected as in the USA, for example. When USA had more time to prepare.

so then that is how this is working if for the time being everyone stays in then when things return to normal fewer people will have it at one time allowing treatment while also allowing most people to have a "normal" life?

 

[Dave G.]

There is a mystery around this thing for sure. I was checking the CDC website on flu to try and make some sort of comparison regarding the most susceptible elderly. Well, it stated that for the elderly 70-80 % contracting the flu end up hospitalized ! And many die. It's right at CDC you guys can look for yourselves. I have to assume the difference then is in the numbers contracting it or more people than just elderly are in ICU with this Covid stuff. It's getting tiring trying to follow it though..

I can't help but think there is something deeper going on with this thing, no idea what. Something is not being told. We do know if we can keep the exponential nature of the growth rate down we can experience many less deaths. And it could be they simply just don't know.. Some folks have gotten this with barely a symptom and others with the best care don't survive. Somewhere in the middle I guess addresses the OP question....

 

[solid_core]

so then that is how this is working if for the time being everyone stays in then when things return to normal fewer people will have it at one time allowing treatment while also allowing most people to have a "normal" life?

?

Such a complicated sentence, I have no idea what you wanted to say.

 

[Albion]

Why these "accidents" happen in the USA/UK and not in Germany.

Why the nursing homes in Germany are not as infected as in the USA, for example. When USA had more time to prepare.

Which nursing homes in the USA are you thinking of?
Early in the outbreak, one nursing home was badly hit in the State of Washington, but there are tens of thousands of nursing homes in the United States and nothing like what you are suggesting has happened to them.

 

[solid_core]

Which nursing homes in the USA are you thinking of?
Early in the outbreak, one nursing home was badly hit in the State of Washington, but there are tens of thousands of nursing homes in the United States and nothing like what you are suggesting has happened to them.

I do not know, I just accepted the information/explanation dogs4thewin gave me.

 

[Albion]

I do not know, I just accepted the information/explanation dogs4thewin gave me.

Fair enough, but if it had happened, it would be news. That's for sure.

 

[dogs4thewin]

I do not know, I just accepted the information/explanation dogs4thewin gave me.

Where did I say more than one nursing home was badly hit?

 

[dogs4thewin]

Fair enough, but if it had happened, it would be news. That's for sure.

I disagree maybe on the local news, but not national. In fact, I am unsure the Washington one would have made the news but for the fact it was the first major outbreak.

 

[paul1149]

Presumably triage takes into account the arc of the disease - when the person got it - vs. how bad the symptoms are, all against the age and general health, specifically immune health, of the person. A person with chronic lung problems, the very young or the elderly, or an immuno-compromised patient, is more at risk, even if he just caught the disease and symptoms aren't bad as yet. They have to look at all that and come up with a determination.

On the other end of the scale, as is happening to the elderly in Italy, when resources get scarce they start throwing the worst cases overboard, and focus on the golden mean they have a chance at successfully dealing with.

 

[Desk trauma]

Why these "accidents" happen in the USA/UK and not in Germany.

Why the nursing homes in Germany are not as infected as in the USA, for example. When USA had more time to prepare.

Incompetence.

 

[DaisyDay]

Keep in mind though that at least 20 of those deaths were in one nursing home and most if not all of the rest were among people either older and/or underlying health problems.

You want to stay out of the hospital if at all possible. If you have the virus, you might spread the infection to the doctors, nurses and other staff, as well as other patients; if you don't have it, you might get it there despite precautions.

Very mild and you might not even realize you have it (best for you, not so good for everyone else - Typhoid Mary). Mild is that you feel like crap but can still breathe; severe is a temperature but under 103 and a cough and you feel really crappy; emergency is if your temperature is over 103 and you're very short of breath with or without a persistent, dry cough. This virus seems to cause lung-scarring which is why it is so dangerous short-term as well as long.

Because you have underlying conditions, stay away from other people. Monitor your health and if your symptoms are emergency-level, check where you should go with your health department. You don't want to show up and get turned away. Unless you're rural, there might be drive-in testing where you live, if you qualify.

 

[d taylor]

Germany: 8,500 cases, 23 deaths
vs.
USA: 5,200 cases, 94 deaths
UK: 2,000 cases, 56 deaths

Something wrong with health care system in USA/UK?

Or is Germany exceptionally good in something?

I would not say that may be a health care problem, but more (at least in the usa) the health of the people. Which in America is really bad, many consume a lot of junk for food. and are in poor health to began with

 

[sesquiterpene]

There is a mystery around this thing for sure. I was checking the CDC website on flu to try and make some sort of comparison regarding the most susceptible elderly. Well, it stated that for the elderly 70-80 % contracting the flu end up hospitalized ! And many die. It's right at CDC you guys can look for yourselves. ..

I looked for myself. Your numbers are off. I think you are reading the graphs wrong. For the 2018-2019 season the estimated rate of illness (ages 65+) per 100,000 was 5,861, the rate of hospitalization was 532, and the death rate was 48.7.

So ~10% hospitalization, and <1% death, all are estimates.
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC

 

[Dave G.]

I looked for myself. Your numbers are off. I think you are reading the graphs wrong. For the 2018-2019 season the estimated rate of illness (ages 65+) per 100,000 was 5,861, the rate of hospitalization was 532, and the death rate was 48.7.

So ~10% hospitalization, and <1% death, all are estimates.
Estimated Influenza Illnesses, Medical visits, Hospitalizations, and Deaths in the United States — 2018–2019 influenza season | CDC

Thanks for digging deeper and that sounds more realistic. I read the surface information from a link I found in my browser that took me to a CDC page. I didn't see the graph there. Thanks again.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Germany: 8,500 cases, 23 deaths
vs.
USA: 5,200 cases, 94 deaths
UK: 2,000 cases, 56 deaths

Something wrong with health care system in USA/UK?

Or is Germany exceptionally good in something?

I live in Washington state and we had the first hot spot in the country. One nursing home was responsible for the first early deaths. They lost 27 out of 120 residents due to the virus. This virus hits the elderly extremely hard. Since then it has been detected in other nursing homes. For the number of deaths it is not a matter of what country, but what was the age of those infected.

I read that Italy was hit hard as a country partially because their population is aging, putting more potential victims in the key demographic. Perhaps the deaths are more due to how we take care of our elderly than anything else. If they are warehoused in nursing homes then an outbreak at one home can easily skew the statistics. But frankly, nursing homes often are for those that need much more than assisted living. That makes care for them difficult. Small homes would make an already extremely expensive care even more expensive. Perhaps Germany has been lucky. Early on, and that is where the world currently is in this outbreak, "luck" will have more to do with who gets the disease than many other factors.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Incompetence.

I go to a nursing home almost every day in Washington state. Rumors fly. One worker may have been the first infectious agent. The disease is very virulent which means once in an area it can spread very rapidly. And by the time one knows that it is a problem it is too late. That is why what seem to be over reactions to many are taking place. If no vaccine is developed it is almost a surety that everyone will get this sooner or later. The idea of the extreme measures is to "flatten the curve" so that hospitals can deal with the severe cases when they do occur. In areas that were hit hard in Italy and China many of the deaths were due to health care being overwhelmed.