The Virgin Mary and her savior

[Not David]

A lot of people falsely assert Catholics and Orthodox believe Mary didn't need Jesus as Savior which is something neither group says.

Is there any disagreement with that statement?

 

[Albion]

If 'they' do, I'd call it a rare thing.

 

[MDC]

A lot of people falsely assert Catholics and Orthodox believe Mary didn't need Jesus as Savior which is something neither group says.

Is there any disagreement with that statement?

Then you would agree Mary was a sinner correct?

 

[Not David]

If 'they' do, I'd call it a rare thing.

Why? Because they don't say "Mary needed a savior" all the time?

 

[Not David]

Then you would agree Mary was a sinner correct?

No, babies are not sinners either but they need a savior.

 

[MDC]

No, babies are not sinners either but they need a savior.

Did Mary live a sinless life?

 

[MDC]

No, babies are not sinners either but they need a savior.

If babies have no guilt of sin why do they need a savior?

 

[Albion]

Why? Because they don't say "Mary needed a savior" all the time?

Because I have never heard that opinion voiced ("A lot of people falsely assert Catholics and Orthodox believe Mary didn't need Jesus as Savior")

I was trying to be fair by saying that if some people have said what you claimed, it would be a rare occurrence. I was thinking of saying that it is never done, but as with a lot of things in life there usually are a few exceptions somewhere.

 

[Not David]

Did Mary live a sinless life?

She was immaculate.

 

[thecolorsblend]

A lot of people falsely assert Catholics and Orthodox believe Mary didn't need Jesus as Savior which is something neither group says.

Is there any disagreement with that statement?

In a sense, two statements are being made up there.

But to settle on one, I do agree that a fair number of Protestants say (or imply) that we Catholics believe Our Lady had no need of a Savior. This happens not because of clear statements of Catholic belief, but in spite of clear statements of Catholic belief.

Our denials seem to avail us nothing though. I should say that Protestants continue laboring under many a false impression of Catholic belief, of which this is merely one.

 

[Not David]

If babies have no guilt of sin why do they need a savior?

Because they are born into a fallen world. Plants and animals don't sin yet they they also suffer from disease and die.

 

[Tree of Life]

A lot of people falsely assert Catholics and Orthodox believe Mary didn't need Jesus as Savior which is something neither group says.

Is there any disagreement with that statement?

Catholics and EOs may not say this because of the theological absurdities which are entailed in it. But it is a very clear implication of another thing that Catholics and EOs say which is that Mary was conceived without sin and that she remained totally innocent of sin throughout her whole life.

Jesus is only a savior of sinners. If Mary is not a sinner then she is not in need of Jesus the savior. So to say that Mary was conceived without sin and remained sinless is as good as saying that she does not need a savior and many other theological absurdities which would be unacceptable to any Christian would come from this.

 

[MDC]

She was immaculate.

So tell me please in what way is she needing a Savior?

 

[MDC]

Because they are born into a fallen world. Plants and animals don't sin yet they they also suffer from disease and die.

Did Christ need to save Himself?

 

[Tree of Life]

Because they are born into a fallen world. Plants and animals don't sin yet they they also suffer from disease and die.

The earth is under a curse because of Adam's sin. Jesus himself suffered and died because he assumed the guilt of Adam's sin (and ours). But he was risen by the power of a perfectly righteous life.

 

[Not David]

Catholics and EOs may not say this because of the theological absurdities which are entailed in it. But it is a very clear implication of another thing that Catholics and EOs say which is that Mary was conceived without sin and that she remained totally innocent of sin throughout her whole life.

Jesus is only a savior of sinners. If Mary is not a sinner then she is not in need of Jesus the savior. So to say that Mary was conceived without sin and remained sinless is as good as saying that she does not need a savior and many other theological absurdities which would be unacceptable to any Christian would come from this.

Incorrect, being sinless does not merit you salvation. Union with God is primordial

 

[Not David]

So tell me please in what way is she needing a Savior?

Because she is also with a fallen nature.

 

[Tree of Life]

Incorrect, being sinless does not merit you salvation. Union with God is primordial

A person needs to be saved from their sins. If they have no sins, then they don't need salvation.

 

[Not David]

Did Christ need to save Himself?

Not, because he is God

 

[Tree of Life]

Because she is also with a fallen nature.

The fallen nature is sinful. To say that Mary is without sin and that she had a fallen nature is self-contradictory and (I believe) inconsistent with RCC doctrine which teaches that she was immaculately conceived without a fallen nature.