The use of force

[Yalith]

Obey the laws of your land?

Turn the other cheek is an idiom.

As for a cite, we do have a gift called common sense. If I was to ask for a verse to prove we can drive cars, I don't think you'd find one.

Here's one for you

Acts 1
14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.

Apparantly we can drive Hondas

 

[oworm]

And motorbikes!


he said to the men of Peniel, "When I return in triumph,

 

[aanjt]

every war ends up in peace, one way or another.


The throne for heaven will be/is at war against satan. Force is needed when ignorance is used in defense, cause you talk, negociate or reason when you're tralking to a wall, so you ogtta break through it... and arguing or reasoning witha nd idiot or ignorant fool is like talking to a wall... thats all I gotta say.

How did the Desert Storm war end in peace for the Iraqis when Saddam had everyone who was against him (because they thought at that time we would go in and capture Saddam) tortured and killed?

Also, my brother thinks that everyone is ignorant, so he should use force on everyone because of that? It seems to me, from your post, that you think most people, if not all, are idiots or ignorant. If that is true, it seems that you do a lot of violence (assuming force is meaning violence in this).

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[porcupine]

And motorbikes!


he said to the men of Peniel, "When I return in triumph,

And smoke cigarettes . . .

Genesis 24:64
64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel.

 

[Yalith]

And smoke cigarettes . . .

Genesis 24:64
64 And Rebekah lifted up her eyes, and when she saw Isaac, she lighted off the camel/b].

ROFL!!!

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

How did the Desert Storm war end in peace for the Iraqis when Saddam had everyone who was against him (because they thought at that time we would go in and capture Saddam) tortured and killed?

Also, my brother thinks that everyone is ignorant, so he should use force on everyone because of that? It seems to me, from your post, that you think most people, if not all, are idiots or ignorant. If that is true, it seems that you do a lot of violence (assuming force is meaning violence in this).

Yours in Christ,
Jen

The war did end, but it also changed, and became another war.

Very few wars have "ended." The opposite of war is peace, so if there is no war, then there is peace.

My ignorance metaphore is a good one, but as youc an see, it has flaws, I never said it was perfect.

Many people are ignorant, but you should still atl east try to talk things our first, if that cannot happen, then yes, use force, one way or another, if it results into violence, then yes.

Sometimes violence is the only answer, unless one or the other person is willing to lower standards or morals, and sometimes that just does not/cannot happen, simple fact of life.

And what is the real problem with violence anyways? People die, people get hurt? Big freaking deal, it happens all the time.

Stand up for what you beleive and do whatever it takes to keep ahold of that while maintaining Love, which is possible.

I am in the military, sworn to kill when my authorities tell me to, does this mean I do not love? Of course not...

 

[aanjt]

Many people are ignorant, but you should still atl east try to talk things our first, if that cannot happen, then yes, use force, one way or another, if it results into violence, then yes.

Sometimes violence is the only answer, unless one or the other person is willing to lower standards or morals, and sometimes that just does not/cannot happen, simple fact of life.

So, if you are trying to convince me that being Anglican is wrong, and therefore you think I am ignorant, and will not concede to what you are saying, you should beat me for it? If a child is not "getting it" when it comes to their homework because they just do not understand, people will call him and idiot and ignorant (along with other things), s/he should be beaten for that?

And what is the real problem with violence anyways? People die, people get hurt? Big freaking deal, it happens all the time.

Big feaking deal? Talk to someone who had to bury their infant or child. It is a big deal. Talk to someone who's loved one was murdered, talk to a woman or girl who has been raped. There is no compassion whatsoever in what you said above. It is a big deal for a child to be subjected to child abuse, a reason why there is a law against it. It is a big deal when someone is murdered.

Stand up for what you beleive and do whatever it takes to keep ahold of that while maintaining Love, which is possible.

It is possible to stand up for what you believe in and not resort to violence in every single situation, which seems to be what you are advocating.

I am in the military, sworn to kill when my authorities tell me to, does this mean I do not love? Of course not...

And???? So what. I know people in the military. I know people in the Navy, Marines, Army, and Air Force. I have never heard any of them advocate that if you think someone is ignorant or an idiot, and they won't concede to you, then to use violence against them. BTW, you don't think Columbine was a big deal? What if it was one of your children that was killed in that shooting. Would it still be no "big freaking deal"? Think of every violent act. Then think of that act being upon your mother, sister, daughter (I don't know if you have any children). If this is your outake on life, you are one scary person to be around. How can you love if you don't care what happens to someone, hence where you said, "what's the big freaking deal".

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[danielb]

Many people are ignorant, but you should still atl east try to talk things our first, if that cannot happen, then yes, use force, one way or another, if it results into violence, then yes.

So you are saying that if people do not agree with you that force, up to and including lethal force should be used to convince them? That there can be only one point of view in the world?

And what is the real problem with violence anyways? People die, people get hurt? Big freaking deal, it happens all the time.

I am appalled by your attitude and would like to state that in my time in Her Majesties Armed Forces and the Police I have NEVER come accross someone who does not care about the preserving of human life and preventing human suffering. I think you'll find most wars are fought to prevent the suffering and deaths of a countries citizens...

I am in the military, sworn to kill when my authorities tell me to, does this mean I do not love? Of course not...

From your age and earlier comments I assume you've never actually seen combat or death close up and have no idea of what you speak. And I prey you never have to learn about the true horror of war...

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

"So, if you are trying to convince me that being Anglican is wrong, and therefore you think I am ignorant, and will not concede to what you are saying, you should beat me for it? If a child is not "getting it" when it comes to their homework because they just do not understand, people will call him and idiot and ignorant (along with other things), s/he should be beaten for that?"

OF COURSE NOT... Violence in resulting to extremes i mean.. I am speaking of war here... Sorry, I can see that I am not making myself clear enough here.
No, differences in beleifes should result in violence? no, of course, I hope not, but it happens. When i say 'force" i don't mean violence or even being physical, just something more than 'talking" like love, showing God through actions, being VERY unviolent.

"Big feaking deal? Talk to someone who had to bury their infant or child. It is a big deal. Talk to someone who's loved one was murdered, talk to a woman or girl who has been raped. There is no compassion whatsoever in what you said above. It is a big deal for a child to be subjected to child abuse, a reason why there is a law against it. It is a big deal when someone is murdered."

Sorry, I have a cold heart when it comes to death, i realize that almost no one sees my point of view, but I understand how it does hurt others, and I sorry about your child. You are right, i have lil compassion for death, I respect their time for mourning, but in the end, you gotta get up and keep tracking... it's a military thing... sorry.

This is my problem,.. everyone cares and has tones of emotions when someone dies... Ok, I can go for that, but yet what if they were unsaaved, did the peopel mourning do all they could to show them christ? If so, then I can see why they are mourning... and if they are saved, then it should be tears of joy.

I am sorry about how I wrote my thoughts on people being ignorrant, i didn't explain myself well enough.

And I know of people in the military as well, they are as you say they are, but there are others like me too.



Daniel:
"From your age and earlier comments I assume you've never actually seen combat or death close up and have no idea of what you speak. And I prey you never have to learn about the true horror of war..."

Your right, but however, I trained to handle it, and personally, I will do anything for my country... as I stated, death doesn't affect me like others, it's a good strength for war. I figure I should be out their fighting since God has given me the mind capabilities to handle it as oppossed to someone who would not handle it as well.
Also, my age should not matter, only my maturity. I know it's not that high, but the comment you made about me needing to learn more about honor was very bold and dishonorable in itself... course, thats jsut my opinion.

Once again, I am sorry for the miss communication... no I wil not hit someone who disagrees with, I love people very much, and infact I am a chplain assistant... a person who helps others in these situations. just because I haev my thoughts doesn't mean I am closed minded or uncaring to others. I am sorry if I have upset anyone.

 

[aanjt]

"
Sorry, I have a cold heart when it comes to death, i realize that almost no one sees my point of view, but I understand how it does hurt others, and I sorry about your child. You are right, i have lil compassion for death, I respect their time for mourning, but in the end, you gotta get up and keep tracking... it's a military thing... sorry.

This is my problem,.. everyone cares and has tones of emotions when someone dies... Ok, I can go for that, but yet what if they were unsaaved, did the peopel mourning do all they could to show them christ? If so, then I can see why they are mourning... and if they are saved, then it should be tears of joy.

I am sorry about how I wrote my thoughts on people being ignorrant, i didn't explain myself well enough.

And I know of people in the military as well, they are as you say they are, but there are others like me too.

I have never lost a child, and I thank God for that. But, my son's former Webelos leader buried their daughter 2 days after Christmas. She was 14 years old. It was very heartbreaking. They aren't the first people I know to lose a child.

Yours in Christ,
Jen

 

[danielb]

"Daniel:
"From your age and earlier comments I assume you've never actually seen combat or death close up and have no idea of what you speak. And I prey you never have to learn about the true horror of war..."

Your right, but however, I trained to handle it, and personally, I will do anything for my country... as I stated, death doesn't affect me like others, it's a good strength for war. I figure I should be out their fighting since God has given me the mind capabilities to handle it as oppossed to someone who would not handle it as well.
Also, my age should not matter, only my maturity. I know it's not that high, but the comment you made about me needing to learn more about honor was very bold and dishonorable in itself... course, thats jsut my opinion.

Once again, I am sorry for the miss communication... no I wil not hit someone who disagrees with, I love people very much, and infact I am a chplain assistant... a person who helps others in these situations. just because I haev my thoughts doesn't mean I am closed minded or uncaring to others. I am sorry if I have upset anyone.

I was merely pointing out that most people would find what you said offensive. You may find killing & death 'no big deal' but most normal people will, you need to be careful when talking about such things as its a easy way to alienate and anger alot of people. I know this from past experience...

I never insulted your honour, I'm sorry if you read my post that way but I cannot see where you get that from. I wasing trying to get the point accross that you should wait till after you have experienced something like combat and death before deciding if it effects you or not. As it does effect everyone I've every know who has been in combat and required to kill or seen their mates die.

I'm no doubt you will do your best for your country, as all who are in the services want to do but you need to realise theres a fine line between patriotic statments about doing your bit and statments that to strangers sound like you'd kill for no reason as 'is no big deal'...

Yours,

Daniel

 

[xtxArchxAngelxtx]

I was merely pointing out that most people would find what you said offensive. You may find killing & death 'no big deal' but most normal people will, you need to be careful when talking about such things as its a easy way to alienate and anger alot of people. I know this from past experience...

I never insulted your honour, I'm sorry if you read my post that way but I cannot see where you get that from. I wasing trying to get the point accross that you should wait till after you have experienced something like combat and death before deciding if it effects you or not. As it does effect everyone I've every know who has been in combat and required to kill or seen their mates die.

I'm no doubt you will do your best for your country, as all who are in the services want to do but you need to realise theres a fine line between patriotic statments about doing your bit and statments that to strangers sound like you'd kill for no reason as 'is no big deal'...

Yours,

Daniel

understood