The US Court System is Insane

[Jetgirl]

Best not threaten any tresspassers on your land, you could be sued for inducing post-traumatic stress disorder, and have your land given to them by the courts.

Regardless of the fact that said trespassers were ALSO entering the country (and the land) criminally.

Note that by halfway down the page they have switched from referring to them as "illegal immigrants" to just plain "immigrants". Hmmm. I love it when they do that.

2 Illegal Immigrants Win Arizona Ranch in Court
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/19/national/19ranch.html

 

[Jetgirl]

How can they even stand in a courtroom to make a case?

They're criminals, by default, and they have no rights as citizens.

Anyone who abused them should have been arrested and jailed, and the illegals should have been arrested and deported *immediatly*.

 

[MORE85]

The Courts Dont Care About Americans Now.the Rich Developers Can Take Ur Land If Where U Live Condems Ur Land.there Has To Be A Way To Take The Power The Rich Have Over Poor And Working Ppl Away From Them.

 

[trunks2k]

Just a bit more information:

The guy supposedly pistol whipped the illegal immigrants while they were detained.
The guy also has a history of publically stating that he plans to just kill anyone crossing the border illegally.

It's one thing to detain someone trespassing on you land. Its one thing to shoot at someone trespassing on your land (depending on varying state laws). Its one thing to threaten people's lives who cross your land (again depending on varying state laws). It's a whole other thing to detain them and then threaten their lives, which is what seems to have happened in this case.

 

[Jetgirl]

Just a bit more information:

The guy supposedly pistol whipped the illegal immigrants while they were detained.

Of which he was tried and not convicted.

The illegals also stated that they were given food and blankets and released in about an hour.

The guy also has a history of publically stating that he plans to just kill anyone crossing the border illegally.

Good for him, I'm just about there too.

It's one thing to detain someone trespassing on you land. Its one thing to shoot at someone trespassing on your land (depending on varying state laws).

Look, if I have a ranch, and I hear people out on my property, I'm coming out with my shotgun. I don't care if it turns out to be the Avon Lady, I'm justified in running anyone off my land that I see fit.

That's why it's PRIVATE property.

Since I'm nice, I'd probably just load the thing with rock salt. But that's just the kindness of my heart glowing through.

Its one thing to threaten people's lives who cross your land (again depending on varying state laws). It's a whole other thing to detain them and then threaten their lives, which is what seems to have happened in this case.

They "felt" their lives were being threatened. The jury found the guy guilty of possessing a firearm, not of threatening anyones lives or hurting either illegal.

You know something they don't know?

 

[DieHappy]

I like how their lawyer calls them "undocumented workers." The biggest question I have is, how in the heck does an illegal alien gain access to our court system? Shouldn't they have been sent back south before the case was even entered? When you come into my house uninvited I can use lethal force against you. They came into our country univited (no, I am not advocating killing illegals).

 

[theeyesoftammyfaye]

They came into our country univited (no, I am not advocating killing illegals).

then again, the europeans came here uninvited and basically wiped out the entire indigenous population in the name of god and civilisation. don't be so high and mighty about "our" country!

 

[Jetgirl]

then again, the europeans came here uninvited and basically wiped out the entire indigenous population in the name of god and civilisation. don't be so high and mighty about "our" country!

What do you want Tammyfaye, shall we dissolve every country that's ever taken land from another country and give it back to the "original" owners, dispite the fact that the "original" owners have been deceased for at least 500 and in some cases thousand of years?

What would you like us to do?

We would have to get rid of Canada too, since the French took it from the indiginants, who invarably took it from some other tribe, who took it from someone else.

Oh yeah, Mexico would have to be given back too, since it was conqured by the Spanish. Fancy that.

 

[theeyesoftammyfaye]

What would you like us to do?

for americans, in general, to get off their america-is-the-best high horse and actually try to improve the world they live in. we are the most selfish, greedy, arrogant and uncultured first world nation.

sorry to derail the thread. back to the OP, you mentioned that he had been found not guilty of pistol whipping these two. fine. you also have to remember the burden of proof is much lower in civil court than criminal court. the most highly visible example of this has to be the OJ trial, where he was found NOT guilty of murder, yet held financially liable in civil court.

 

[DieHappy]

then again, the europeans came here uninvited and basically wiped out the entire indigenous population in the name of god and civilisation. don't be so high and mighty about "our" country!

It's ours now and we have internationally respected borders to protect.

Marge: "What did you to the car?"
Homer: "Nothing!"
Marge: "It didn't have broken axels before."
Homer: "Before, before. Quit living in the past."

 

[Jetgirl]

sorry to derail the thread. back to the OP, you mentioned that he had been found not guilty of pistol whipping these two. fine. you also have to remember the burden of proof is much lower in civil court than criminal court. the most highly visible example of this has to be the OJ trial, where he was found NOT guilty of murder, yet held financially liable in civil court.

So what?

How did ILLEGAL ALIENS get to try someone in court in the first place?

Why were they not arrested and deported the instant they set foot in a courtroom?

 

[trunks2k]

Look, if I have a ranch, and I hear people out on my property, I'm coming out with my shotgun. I don't care if it turns out to be the Avon Lady, I'm justified in running anyone off my land that I see fit.

That's why it's PRIVATE property.

Since I'm nice, I'd probably just load the thing with rock salt. But that's just the kindness of my heart glowing through.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to shoot at people who trespass. I'm saying that shooting at or threatening people who trespass is different than detaining them and then threatening them. Which may or may not have happened in this case.

They "felt" their lives were being threatened. The jury found the guy guilty of possessing a firearm, not of threatening anyones lives or hurting either illegal.

You know something they don't know?

I'm just going off what the article said. I don't know the specifics of the trial. I don't know what exactly happend, and neither do you. I don't know what exactly he did while detaining those people. I'm not saying if I agree with the article or not. All I'm trying to do is put the issue in a neutral light. Frankly given the guy's history according to the article I doubt all he did was detain them, give them blankets and cookies and let them go.

I think you need to scale back on prejudging the things I have to say because you are readin way more into it than I intended.

 

[one love]

That is why I love Texas, you can shoot people who approach onto your land so be it that you have proper warning, and are always able to shoot an intruder into your home.

Arizona? I thought this was McCains state and a red one at that? Sounds like they've gone south to me.

 

[MSBS]

for americans, in general, to get off their america-is-the-best high horse and actually try to improve the world they live in. we are the most selfish, greedy, arrogant and uncultured first world nation.

Haven't done much traveling have you?

I find it bothersome that so many Americans have such a low opinion of America without ever having experienced what the rest of the world is like. Frankly Americans are nicer, friendier, and less selfish than the people of just about any country I've been to. Try living somewhere else for a while if you really want to find out what selfish, greedy, and arrogant is all about.

 

[KenH]

we are the most selfish, greedy, arrogant and uncultured first world nation.

Sounds like you have a high horse of your own that you are on.

Americans are the most generous people in the world. When there is a natural disaster in the world we are there to help, both privately and governmentally.

 

[MaryS]

How did ILLEGAL ALIENS get to try someone in court in the first place?

Why were they not arrested and deported the instant they set foot in a courtroom?

Actually it's part of the U.S. Constitution and most judges cite the equal protection clause.

Just kidding, but I wonder if the United Nations would pass resolutions calling the illegal immigrants "occupiers" if we took it to international court?
That's basically what they did to the Jews that settled in territories the Palestinians claimed. Call them "illegal occupiers" and the United Nations will condemn them!

 

[mutantleader]

Actually it's part of the U.S. Constitution and most judges cite the equal protection clause.

Just kidding, but I wonder if the United Nations would pass resolutions calling the illegal immigrants "occupiers" if we took it to international court?
That's basically what they did to the Jews that settled in territories the Palestinians claimed. Call them "illegal occupiers" and the United Nations will condemn them!

Since when have we paid any attention to the UN. We do whatever we want that will serves the interests of our country.
MaryS, I thought this thread was to discuss the US court system, not your sympathies towards the Israeli squatters being evicted.

 

[philosopherthales]

So what?

How did ILLEGAL ALIENS get to try someone in court in the first place?

Why were they not arrested and deported the instant they set foot in a courtroom?

That an alien is illegal means that he should be deported is a non-sequitir from a legal stance.

(a) IN GENERAL.-Section 275 (8 U.S.C. 1325) is amended-





(1) by redesignating subsections (b) and (c) as subsections (c) and (d), respectively; and


(2) by inserting after subsection (a) the following:





"(b) Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of-





"(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or





"(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection.





Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.".





(b) EFFECTIVE DATE.-The amendments made by subsection (a) shall apply to illegal entries or attempts to enter occurring on or after the first day of the sixth month beginning after the date of the enactment of this Act.

Sec. 1325. Improper entry by alien


(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection;
misrepresentation and concealment of facts

Any alien who (1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at
any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or (3)
attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully
false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a
material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be
fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and,
for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title
18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.

(b) Improper time or place; civil penalties

Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter)
the United States at a time or place other than as designated by
immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of--
(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or
attempted entry); or
(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of
an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under
this subsection.

Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in
lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

Hmm, I am not finding anything that legally says that an illegal immigrant must be deported by law(Which is not how the law has to work). Someone who doesn't wear a seat belt is a criminal, just because someone is a criminal by not wearing a seat belt does not mean that deportation is the best answer to that situation. Why are you applying it to this case? Deporation would be the answer if immigration laws were meant to keep people out, but that could not be the case. It could be the answer if deportation was economically having more pro's than con's but that could not be the case. They immigration laws could be designed so that the U.S. knows who is coming and who is in and that is all. In that case, the Immigrant broke the law in that he/she didn't file his papers correctly and on time or whatever. If someone does that(lets say for importing something, getting a divorce), does that automatically mean that deportation is the prescribed penalty? No, of course not.

Anyway, the people proclaiming that the laws of this country aren't being enforced and that they have the law on their side when they want to kick all Illegal immigrants out are just skewing the situation. They don't have the laws on their side, obviously.

I can see where you can easily misunderstand the law though. There is a lot of other people skewing the situation. Anyway, if you want illegal immigrants to be kicked out, you are going to have to get the laws changed so that Judges and Policemen can do it.

 

[Smoke Screen]

So what?

How did ILLEGAL ALIENS get to try someone in court in the first place?

Why were they not arrested and deported the instant they set foot in a courtroom?

Is this guy considered an "illegal alien?"