The universe is expanding, but, where?

[PsychoSarah]

You are trying to rule out that more people began to observe it, really? be serious?

It doesn't even fit with your religious beliefs for it to be a plural, plus, it is suggestive of humans.

 

[Gottservant]

No, we observe things all the time without being the cause of those events. That would be like saying midwives own the process of childbirth because they observe it and don't interrupt it. Such a statement is nonsensical.

As long as this life, continues.

In reality, the midwife makes a more lasting impression than the mother, in eternity.

 

[Gottservant]

It doesn't even fit with your religious beliefs for it to be a plural, plus, it is suggestive of humans.

you're not providing a time frame.

in order for it to expand now, it is only incumbent on us to add our observations to Christ's

 

[PsychoSarah]

As long as this life, continues.

In reality, the midwife makes a more lasting impression than the mother, in eternity.

In your opinion, maybe, although you seem to be acting as if the mother doesn't raise the child or do anything else after the birth. Which makes no sense.

 

[Loudmouth]

It exists.

Then show us.

Plus

Testable evidence is that everything which is observed is altered.

That is incomprehensible nonsense.

 

[PsychoSarah]

you're not providing a time frame.

in order for it to expand now, it is only incumbent on us to add our observations to Christ's

Why would I provide a time frame for an event that started time itself?

 

[Gottservant]

Why would I provide a time frame for an event that started time itself?

because there is always time

 

[Wryetui]

Based on what evidence?

LoL. You can't say a word about faith without attracting unbelievers to ask you for proofs, it's like a magnet.

Talking about magnets and magnetism, it's not like we know more about those two than about God, we see two pieces of metal attracting each other, therefore magnetism exists, so we see people praying at church therefore God exists.

Silly answer to a silly question.

 

[PsychoSarah]

because there is always time

No, time had a beginning to (time as we know it). The time we experience, the property of time, that is, did not exist before the big bang.

 

[PsychoSarah]

LoL. You can't say a word about faith without attracting unbelievers to ask you for proofs, it's like a magnet.

Talking about magnets and magnetism, it's not like we know more about those two than about God, we see two pieces of metal attracting each other, therefore magnetism exists, so we see people praying at church therefore God exists.

Silly answer to a silly question.

-_- we know exactly how magnets work.

 

[Loudmouth]

LoL. You can't say a word about faith without attracting unbelievers to ask you for proofs, it's like a magnet.

Whenever people make claims about how the universe works or originated, we should rightly ask for evidence. Why shouldn't we?

Talking about magnets and magnetism, it's not like we know more about those two than about God, we see two pieces of metal attracting each other, therefore magnetism exists, so we see people praying at church therefore God exists.

Therefore, religion exists. It doesn't require a deity in order for people to mumble things to thin air.

 

[Gottservant]

Therefore, religion exists. It doesn't require a deity in order for people to mumble things to thin air.

That, my friend, is the difference between someone who thinks a relationship to the unknown is a relationship to whatever, and someone who thinks a relationship to the unknown is a relationship.

So in actual fact, in order to contradict religion, you have said nothing yourself.

 

[Radagast]

Hi to all of you, may God bless you! Perhaps you could help me because this is something hard for me to understand. I always hear that the universe is expanding, the universe is in continous expansion, ok, I can understand that, but, could someone explain to me where is it expanding? For example, if I have a glass full of water and I drop there a drop of ink, the ink expands in the water, in the glass full of water, so, where is the universe expanding?

It's not expanding into anything, it's just getting bigger.

Think of it as the 3D version of an expanding balloon.

 

[Michael]

Whenever people make claims about how the universe works or originated, we should rightly ask for evidence. Why shouldn't we?

Sure, but in your case, with your claims, there simply isn't any 'evidence' that does not begin with an 'act of personal faith" on your part.

Therefore, religion exists. It doesn't require a deity in order for people to mumble things to thin air.

Pfft. Your "space expansion" claims require *four* supernatural constructs! Give me a break.

FYI, the whole concept of 'expansion' is based upon the notion that photon redshift is *caused by* some magical, never been observed on Earth processes (plural), rather than something *simple* that has been observed in the lab, namely inelastic scattering in plasma.

Universe is Not Expanding After All, Controversial Study Suggests | Astronomy | Sci-News.com

Your claims about the cause of photon redshift also *fail* the surface brightness test at larger redshifts.

 

[leftrightleftrightleft]

The truth is often stranger than fiction; the universe is not going to politely ensure that everything about it "makes sense". Our minds are limited in what we can comprehend, and not comprehending something doesn't make it a less valid answer than the "easy answer".

This sounds a little too close to: "God is incomprehensible and He doesn't have to "make sense". our minds are limited in what we can comprehend and not comprehending something doesn't make it a less valid answer."


I think the more honest answer is: "We really don't know what exactly the universe is expanding into or if it is expanding at all. All we know is that when we observe the night sky, it appears that everything that we can see (aka the observable universe) is moving away from us (and actually accelerating away from us). It is one of the big mysteries of cosmology. One possible explanation is that the observable universe we see is only a small corner of a much larger multiverse."


I personally think there is still more to be discovered. I don't think the universe is logically contradictory (in that I don't think the "existence can expand into non-existence" because that is non-sensical). So I think the observable universe is expanding, but likely expanding within some larger universe which we can't observe.

 

[True Scotsman]

Hi to all of you, may God bless you! Perhaps you could help me because this is something hard for me to understand. I always hear that the universe is expanding, the universe is in continous expansion, ok, I can understand that, but, could someone explain to me where is it expanding? For example, if I have a glass full of water and I drop there a drop of ink, the ink expands in the water, in the glass full of water, so, where is the universe expanding?

That's a very good question and the answer, for now, is no one knows the answer. Scientists are working on it.

 

[PsychoSarah]

This sounds a little too close to: "God is incomprehensible and He doesn't have to "make sense". our minds are limited in what we can comprehend and not comprehending something doesn't make it a less valid answer."


I think the more honest answer is: "We really don't know what exactly the universe is expanding into or if it is expanding at all. All we know is that when we observe the night sky, it appears that everything that we can see (aka the observable universe) is moving away from us (and actually accelerating away from us). It is one of the big mysteries of cosmology. One possible explanation is that the observable universe we see is only a small corner of a much larger multiverse."


I personally think there is still more to be discovered. I don't think the universe is logically contradictory (in that I don't think the "existence can expand into non-existence" because that is non-sensical). So I think the observable universe is expanding, but likely expanding within some larger universe which we can't observe.

We do know that the universe is expanding; we can see the movement. But good luck to you on comprehending a place without time, space, or recognizable physics.

Multiverse theory is a valid possibility.

I call it nonexistence because it is so foreign that it is the best explanation I can give.

 

[Michael]

We do know that the universe is expanding; we can see the movement.

FYI, no. Actually all we "observe" are redshifted photons. The *cause* is *assumed* to be related to several supernatural forms of "expansion". Hubble himself entertained *two* viable options to explain the cause of photon redshift, not one.

But good luck to you on comprehending a place without time, space, or recognizable physics.

It's actually unnecessary (and unwise) to give up GR simply to reject the supernatural claim that 'space expansion" is a 'cause' of photon redshift. It certainly *never* happens on Earth.

 

[DogmaHunter]

I just don't understand, if it is expanding where is it expanding? It needs a place for that expansion to take place within that space, is it really incomprehensible?

Space itself is expanding.

That didn't make it any clearer, did it? lol

But it is space itself that is expanding. So whatever it is expanding "into", it's not space... because, again, space is what is expanding.

But we simply don't know what it expands "into".

Perhaps into the dimensions of a multiverse.
Perhaps into what-can-only-be-called "nothingness".
Who knows.

I think we'll never know for sure, because it sure looks like we could never reach, or even just poke, that "outer" world - if it exists.

Interestingly, this "plain of existence" we are talking about, is exactly the place where the gods of humanity reside.

Out of sight, out of reach, untestable, unfalsifiable and indistinguishable from things that don't exist.

 

[DogmaHunter]

LoL. You can't say a word about faith without attracting unbelievers to ask you for proofs, it's like a magnet.

Talking about magnets and magnetism, it's not like we know more about those two than about God, we see two pieces of metal attracting each other, therefore magnetism exists, so we see people praying at church therefore God exists.

Silly answer to a silly question.

Do you honestly think this is an appropriate analogy?

I'll let you think about by asking you a question:


I'll stick a piece of metal to a magnet.
You round up every believer you know and pray for god to make a tree act as if it were a magnet and have a piece of metal stick to it.
Which piece of metal will stick and why?

To say that we don't know why and how magnets work is something I cannot take seriously in this day an age.

You wouldn't be reading this, if it wasn't for the state of the art magnetic parts in the server hosting this piece of text.