The UNFORGIVEN, who are they and how does it happen?

[reddogs]

The Holy Ghost is identified as part of the Trinity:

Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:


Jesus says that all manner of 'sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men' except that one thing which man can do against the Holy Ghost which leaves him 'Unforgiven'. What exactly is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, how do you speak, think, or act in such a way as to bring this one unforgiveable tresspass upon oneself?

1. Matthew 12:31
   Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
   Matthew 12:30-32 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
2. Matthew 12:32
   And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
   Matthew 12:31-33 (in Context) Matthew 12 (Whole Chapter)
3. Mark 3:29
   But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.
   Mark 3:28-30 (in Context) Mark 3 (Whole Chapter)

 

[sentipente]

Do you want to discuss the Holy Spirit or the unforgiven?

 

[reddogs]

Do you want to discuss the Holy Spirit or the unforgiven?

I have always wondered what was this great 'sin of sins' that could not be forgiven, there must be someone that has studied this on how you can speak, think, or act in such a way as to bring this one unforgiveable tresspass upon oneself?

 

[zspeedyrabit]

That which could not be forgiven may simply mean that punishment is accompanied with such sins. That which is unforgivable may not constitute condemnation, but rather judgement (punishment)

 

[djconklin]

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is to attribute to God the work of Satan and vice-versa. These people cannot be forgiven because they have truly lost their moral compass and have no way to distinguish right from wrong anymore. That's why they will think that they are doing the Lord's work when they kill the last few who have chosen to obey God rather than man.

 

[reddogs]

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is to attribute to God the work of Satan and vice-versa. These people cannot be forgiven because they have truly lost their moral compass and have no way to distinguish right from wrong anymore. That's why they will think that they are doing the Lord's work when they kill the last few who have chosen to obey God rather than man.

That makes sense, as to just harden your heart against the Holy Ghost or reject its urging seems to indirect or a bit to weak to trigger such a harsh judgement. You have to be working against it somehow, speaking and saying that which you know is a lie directly against its truth. Wow, we must all listen carefully as it speaks to our heart and mind to make sure we are in harmony with Gods truth along with studying and praying for understanding and guidance.......

 

[RC_NewProtestants]

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is to attribute to God the work of Satan and vice-versa. These people cannot be forgiven because they have truly lost their moral compass and have no way to distinguish right from wrong anymore. That's why they will think that they are doing the Lord's work when they kill the last few who have chosen to obey God rather than man.

DJ has this one right, even though the common SDA reaction is that it is the continual rejection of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. That is not what the text is about. When you think about it when you say the work of God is really the work of Satan you really don't have any reason to accept forgiveness anymore. If you believe God has a divided kingdom where God is good at times and evil at times you can no longer trust or depend upon God for anything, if you can't trust God then you can't trust in His ability to forgive.

Jesus and Beelzebub

Matthew12: 22Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute, and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see. 23All the people were astonished and said, "Could this be the Son of David?"
24But when the Pharisees heard this, they said, "It is only by Beelzebub,[d] the prince of demons, that this fellow drives out demons."
25Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. 26If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? 27And if I drive out demons by Beelzebub, by whom do your people drive them out? So then, they will be your judges. 28But if I drive out demons by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God has come upon you.
29"Or again, how can anyone enter a strong man's house and carry off his possessions unless he first ties up the strong man? Then he can rob his house.
30"He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters. 31And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.
33"Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. 34You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. 35The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. 36But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned."

 

[reddogs]

DJ has this one right, even though the common SDA reaction is that it is the continual rejection of the prompting of the Holy Spirit. That is not what the text is about. When you think about it when you say the work of God is really the work of Satan you really don't have any reason to accept forgiveness anymore. If you believe God has a divided kingdom where God is good at times and evil at times you can no longer trust or depend upon God for anything, if you can't trust God then you can't trust in His ability to forgive.

Wow, a 'trad' and a 'prog' agreeing, there is hope...

 

[OntheDL]

Clearly all sins can be forgiven. Jesus died for all types of sins. However the only sin that is not forgiven is the the sin that's not repented and turned away from.

Not only is their inability to know right from wrong, more importantly I think is their inability to repent. The devil and the demons know they are wrong, but they can not repent.

Judas we just discussed knew he had sinned, but he could not give heartfelt repentance and turned away from his sins.

I think that's more dangerous to know it's wrong but couldn't do anything about it because of the constant rejection and neglect of the calling of the holy spirit.

 

[reddogs]

Clearly all sins can be forgiven. Jesus died for all types of sins. However the only sin that is not forgiven is the the sin that's not repented and turned away from.

Not only is their inability to know right from wrong, more importantly I think is their inability to repent. The devil and the demons know they are wrong, but they can not repent.

Judas we just discussed knew he had sinned, but he could not give heartfelt repentance and turned away from his sins.

I think that's more dangerous to know it's wrong but couldn't do anything about it because of the constant rejection and neglect of the calling of the holy spirit.

Blasphemy is a act or action

Main Entry: blas·phe·my
Pronunciation: 'blas-f&-mE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

Some US states still have blasphemy laws on the books from the founding days. Chapter 272 of the Massachusetts General Laws states, for example:
Section 36. Whoever willfully blasphemes the holy name of God by denying, cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, His creation, government or final judging of the world, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching or exposing to contempt and ridicule, the holy word of God contained in the holy scriptures shall be punished by imprisonment in jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars, and may also be bound to good behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy

 

[reddogs]

Now someone came and asked me in another forum if the leaders of the Catholic church and others are blaspheming as they have to know what they are teaching and preaching is "traditions of man" and they are fully aware of it yet continue....

Spiritual Blindness

35Jesus heard that they had thrown him out, and when he found him, he said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?"

36"Who is he, sir?" the man asked. "Tell me so that I may believe in him."
37Jesus said, "You have now seen him; in fact, he is the one speaking with you."
38Then the man said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.
39Jesus said, "For judgment I have come into this world, so that the blind will see and those who see will become blind."
40Some Pharisees who were with him heard him say this and asked, "What? Are we blind too?" 41Jesus said, "If you were blind, you would not be guilty of sin; but now that you claim you can see, your guilt remains.John 9:35-41

 

[sentipente]

Now someone came and asked me in another forum if the leaders of the Catholic church and others are blaspheming as they have to know what they are teaching and preaching is "traditions of man" and they are fully aware of it yet continue....

What makes you so certain?

 

[unpardoned1]

Has anyone seen the other thread in the forum about this subject? I started it over a year ago as it is very near to me and a great fear of mine. Maybe you'll find some answers there as well. ---Carrie.

 

[reddogs]

Has anyone seen the other thread in the forum about this subject? I started it over a year ago as it is very near to me and a great fear of mine. Maybe you'll find some answers there as well. ---Carrie.

Can you give us a link?

 

[unpardoned1]

http://www.christianforums.com/t3317964 This should work, if it doesn't let me know.

 

[PeacefulSDA]

Blasphemy is a act or action

Main Entry: blas·phe·my
Pronunciation: 'blas-f&-mE
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -mies
1 a : the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence for God b : the act of claiming the attributes of deity
2 : irreverence toward something considered sacred or inviolable

Some US states still have blasphemy laws on the books from the founding days. Chapter 272 of the Massachusetts General Laws states, for example:
Section 36. Whoever willfully blasphemes the holy name of God by denying, cursing or contumeliously reproaching God, His creation, government or final judging of the world, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching Jesus Christ or the Holy Ghost, or by cursing or contumeliously reproaching or exposing to contempt and ridicule, the holy word of God contained in the holy scriptures shall be punished by imprisonment in jail for not more than one year or by a fine of not more than three hundred dollars, and may also be bound to good behavior.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy

So Massachusetts has a law on the books against blasphemy! That makes it against the law to shun the Holy Spirit. Will one who is shunning the Holy Spirit be able to observe such a law, considering the whole bad tree, bad fruit concept and all? Seems like a bit of a conundrum.

1 John 5:13 - 21 perhaps adds to this discussion a bit:

13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. 14 This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. 15 And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have what we asked of him.


16 If anyone sees his brother commit a sin that does not lead to death, he should pray and God will give him life. I refer to those whose sin does not lead to death. There is a sin that leads to death. I am not saying that he should pray about that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, and there is sin that does not lead to death.
18 We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him. 19 We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one. 20 We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true—even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life.

21 Dear children, keep yourselves from idols.

Now, what is a sin that leads to death? A sin so permanent that it prevents even God from intervening with life? It sounds like the same sin that Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 12, referenced on the first page. Matthew 12:30 - 32:

31 And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. 32 Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

What is the unpardonable sin? Is it shunning the Holy Spirit as is clearly indicated? Is it worshipping a false God, which also seems fairly clear? Is it a combination?

 

[unpardoned1]

Now, what is a sin that leads to death? A sin so permanent that it prevents even God from intervening with life? It sounds like the same sin that Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 12, referenced on the first page. Matthew 12:30 - 32:

My pastor explained it to me as this: Its a sin commited by a Christian in which the they keep on being a bad example of a Christian by living a sinful lifestyle and not repenting. Its a sin that leads to physical death, God just takes you out of the world.

 

[reddogs]

So Massachusetts has a law on the books against blasphemy! That makes it against the law to shun the Holy Spirit. Will one who is shunning the Holy Spirit be able to observe such a law, considering the whole bad tree, bad fruit concept and all? Seems like a bit of a conundrum.

1 John 5:13 - 21 perhaps adds to this discussion a bit:



Now, what is a sin that leads to death? A sin so permanent that it prevents even God from intervening with life? It sounds like the same sin that Jesus was speaking of in Matthew 12, referenced on the first page. Matthew 12:30 - 32:



What is the unpardonable sin? Is it shunning the Holy Spirit as is clearly indicated? Is it worshipping a false God, which also seems fairly clear? Is it a combination?

I think it is understanding yet not just rejecting but working against it, much like Pharoah hardening his heart and then going after Moses....

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

I have always wondered what was this great 'sin of sins' that could not be forgiven, there must be someone that has studied this on how you can speak, think, or act in such a way as to bring this one unforgiveable tresspass upon oneself?

Yes, I have the Formula but WHY in God's name would you want it??

 

[Moriah_Conquering_Wind]

Blaspheming the Holy Ghost is to attribute to God the work of Satan and vice-versa. These people cannot be forgiven because they have truly lost their moral compass and have no way to distinguish right from wrong anymore. That's why they will think that they are doing the Lord's work when they kill the last few who have chosen to obey God rather than man.

A lot of them are there right now, trying to do it with their words. They employ the power of fire in the tongue to accomplish these filthy schemes. And they all invariably imagine themselves good servants of the Lord -- while they malign, slander and molest others who are lost or afflicted or otherwise in need.