The Two Witnesses- possible answers

[HisdaughterJen]

I have yet to see anyone put this piece of scripture into perspective of what is soon to happen... Isaiah 11

1 And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots: 2 And the spirit of the LORD shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the LORD; 3 And shall make him of quick understanding in the fear of the LORD: and he shall not judge after the sight of his eyes, neither reprove after the hearing of his ears: 4 But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked.

I know many have point to the work the Jesus did with His first coming and saying that it is a prophecy about Him. Not going to disagree with that .... but.... Take a look at the two witnesses

5 And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins. 6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. 7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. 8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den. 9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.

Now that is a picture of the coming milinium... a promise of what is to come. Now back to Isaiah and how he continues..



10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. 12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth. 13 The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim. 14 But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

Israel is going to go after all that was lost from the seven day war and given back in the peace treaty and gain more with this prophecy.

15 And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

Think about that verse for a moment.... this is not like before with Moses crossing the red sea, this is more with seven "streams" crossing like dry land... I think the two witnesses will perform this.


16 And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

YES!!! How wonderful!!

So, you think that the two witnesses will be drawing people to Israel? It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Everyone who believes in the Bible, in God, would be drawn to Israel because of them....especially if it's really them, in the flesh.

And so when is "the power of the Holy people finally broken"? When the two witnesses are killed?

Dan 12:7The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

 

[LittleLambofJesus]

Ah well. If the Jews of today have a hard time figuring it out, how can a poor ole ignorant Christ-ian "gentile" in JESUS figure it out.

LLOJ [humbly bows out of this thread and still waits for chopsticks]

http://www.scripture4all.org/

Luke 21:28 Beginning yet to-be-becoming/ginesqai <1096> (5738) these-things, up-bend!, and lift up! the heads of ye, thru-that is nearing the loosing/apolutrwsiV <629> of ye [Daniel 12/Reve 19,20]

Reve 16:17 and the seventh one pours out the bowl of him upon the air and came out voice, great, out of the sanctuary from the throne saying :it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754).

Reve 21:6 And He said to me: "it-has-become/gegonen <1096> (5754). I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. I, to the one thirsting, shall be giving out of the spring of the water of the life gratuitously.

 

[Bobgf]

Yes...but isn't it interesting that Persia (iran) is at the forefront now just like in Ezek 38?

The ruins are resettled now.
They are living without bars or gates and have unwalled villages now.
The Jews are expecting a Northern army to come against them now.

Not that it can't happen twice...the Gog event of Rev has fire coming down out of heaven and killing the army.

Rev 20:9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.



The Gog event of Ezek:

Eze 38:21 I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man's sword will be against his brother.
Eze 38:22 I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed; I will pour down torrents of rain, hailstones and burning sulfur on him and on his troops and on the many nations with him.




So, I don't know...

Psalm 83 seems to go along with Ezek 38/39 and current events...

Israel does have walls bars and gates now. They have the Arrow missile defense system in Jezreel which God will soon destroy (Hos 1:5). And they have the wall separating them from the Palestinians which God will also soon destroy (Ezek 13:10-15).

The forces coming against Israel in Psalm 83 are their immediate neighbors.

The forces coming against Israel in Ezek 38/39 are distant nations. Check it out. None of their immediate neighbors, the Semites, will be present then.

 

[visionary]

“In that day,” declares the Sovereign Lord . . . I will turn your religious feasts into mourning and all your singing into weeping. I will make all of you wear sackcloth and shave your heads. . .

Will God begin the day of the LORD, by pouring out his wrath on Israel, using the instrumentality of Israel's neighboring nations ?

As Paul says:

Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew firtst, and also of the Gentile (Rom 2:9)

YES!!! How wonderful!!

So, you think that the two witnesses will be drawing people to Israel? It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Everyone who believes in the Bible, in God, would be drawn to Israel because of them....especially if it's really them, in the flesh.

And so when is "the power of the Holy people finally broken"? When the two witnesses are killed?

Dan 12:7The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

Never thought of that.. in that context... when the power of the Holy People has been finally broken....but it makes sense.. wow.

 

[Bobgf]

YES!!! How wonderful!!

So, you think that the two witnesses will be drawing people to Israel? It wouldn't surprise me one bit. Everyone who believes in the Bible, in God, would be drawn to Israel because of them....especially if it's really them, in the flesh.

And so when is "the power of the Holy people finally broken"? When the two witnesses are killed?

Dan 12:7The man clothed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, lifted his right hand and his left hand toward heaven, and I heard him swear by him who lives forever, saying, "It will be for a time, times and half a time. When the power of the holy people has been finally broken, all these things will be completed."

God told Isaiah to prophesy concerning his disobedient people, Israel, that their uncircumcised hearts would prevent them from understanding. To this very day, Israel as a people are yet blind and deaf to God's Divine Plan of Salvation for them and the world.

Go and tell this people: "Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing but never perceiving". Make the heart of this people calloused. Make their ears dull and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.- Isaiah 6:9,10
​

Isaiah then asked the LORD how long this condition for Israel would last. How long before they would again understand God's Way, turn form their disobedient way, and be healed. The LORD answered that Israel's blindness would persist until their land was completely destroyed, and without any inhabitants:

Until the cities lie ruined and without inhabitant, until the houses are left deserted and the fields ruined and ravaged. Until the LORD has sent every;one far away and the land is utterly forsaken - Isaiah 6:12,13
​

So, yes, when the power of the holy people has finally be broken, that will be the turning point for Israel. At that point they start believing in God and relying on God for their protection.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Something about the two witnesses has been on my mind:

Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.&#8221;
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.



Compare to:

Zec 4:1 Then the angel who talked with me returned and wakened me, as a man is wakened from his sleep.
Zec 4:2 He asked me, &#8220;What do you see?&#8221;
I answered, &#8220;I see a solid gold lampstand with a bowl at the top and seven lights on it, with seven channels to the lights.
Zec 4:3 Also there are two olive trees by it, one on the right of the bowl and the other on its left.&#8221;
Zec 4:4 I asked the angel who talked with me, &#8220;What are these, my lord?&#8221;
Zec 4:5 He answered, &#8220;Do you not know what these are?&#8221;
&#8220;No, my lord,&#8221; I replied.
Zec 4:6 So he said to me, &#8220;This is the word of the Lord to Zerubbabel: &#8216;Not by might nor by power, but by my Spirit,&#8217; says the Lord Almighty.
Zec 4:7 &#8220;What are you, O mighty mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become level ground. Then he will bring out the capstone to shouts of &#8216;God bless it! God bless it!&#8217; &#8221;
Zec 4:8 Then the word of the Lord came to me:
Zec 4:9 &#8220;The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this temple; his hands will also complete it. Then you will know that the Lord Almighty has sent me to you.
Zec 4:10 &#8220;Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
&#8220;(These seven are the eyes of the Lord, which range throughout the earth.)&#8221;
Zec 4:11 Then I asked the angel, &#8220;What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?&#8221;
Zec 4:12 Again I asked him, &#8220;What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?&#8221;
Zec 4:13 He replied, &#8220;Do you not know what these are?&#8221;
&#8220;No, my lord,&#8221; I said.
Zec 4:14 So he said, &#8220;These are the two who are anointed toserve the Lord of all the earth.&#8221;




The imagery is of the rebuilding of the temple by the spirit of God, isn't it? If you read about Zerubbabel, he was anointed to build the temple.

I think it was "visionary" who said something about Elijah and Moses and the rebuilding of the temple somewhere on this thread.

The beginning of the passage about the two witnesses talks about measuring the temple which is similar to Ezek 40-42 where the measurements for the new temple are given.

When you read about Zerubbabel and the building of the temple, it seems like it could happen again...in the same way...


hmmm...check this out:

Rev 5:6 Then I saw a Lamb, looking as if it had been slain, standing in the center of the throne, encircled by the four living creatures and the elders. He had seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spiritsof God sent out into all the earth.



Zec 4:10 &#8220;Who despises the day of small things? Men will rejoice when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel.
&#8220;(These seven are the eyes of the Lord, which range throughout the earth.)&#8221;


I don't know...maybe Zerubbabel in Zech 4 is Jesus/God who sends the two witnesses to prophesy and testify while the temple is being built.

 

[LLWHA]

The two witnesses are England and the U.S. and the rest of the Commonwealth of nations that are Israel.

They took the Book (Bible) around the world and preached too all mankind but did not do as the Books says to do.

Then they brought demon-crazy (democracy) to the world against the Word of God and they robbed and murdered.

They both have become as Sodom and Gomorrah and have turned their back on God.

They both will be defeated in a great war. Their people will be taken as slaves by ships by the heathens (gentiles).

They will regroup and defeat the heathen nations (gentiles) because they repent for the evil they have done in promoting homosexuals, race mixing, preaching demon-crazy, murdering and robbing their fellow man etc.

 

[k2svpete]

Ahhh, no.

Zec 4:14 is the key people!

Who are the two groups anointed to serve the Lord?

1. Israel, the Jews are God's chosen people.
2. The Christian church. We are adopted as God's children as the new Israel.

There, now you know.
Good pick of the verses Jen.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The two witnesses are England and the U.S. and the rest of the Commonwealth of nations that are Israel.

They took the Book (Bible) around the world and preached too all mankind but did not do as the Books says to do.

Then they brought demon-crazy (democracy) to the world against the Word of God and they robbed and murdered.

They both have become as Sodom and Gomorrah and have turned their back on God.

They both will be defeated in a great war. Their people will be taken as slaves by ships by the heathens (gentiles).

They will regroup and defeat the heathen nations (gentiles) because they repent for the evil they have done in promoting homosexuals, race mixing, preaching demon-crazy, murdering and robbing their fellow man etc.

Why does everything have to be about the US? I love my country, but wow, it's not the center of the world or the cause of evil.

None of what you said is Biblical, nor does it line up with the description of the two witnesses from Rev 11.

The quote in your signature, if you agree with it, shows that man still blames the woman instead of taking personal responsibility for his own actions. I see it in my husband and son:

Husband stubs his toe on the coffee table and blames wife because she wanted the coffee table as part of living room decor.

Four year old son drops his hamburger on the floor of the minivan and blames mom, claiming her driving caused the demise of the burger in question and the resulting mess.

Nothing has changed since the garden.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

Ahhh, no.

Zec 4:14 is the key people!

Who are the two groups anointed to serve the Lord?

1. Israel, the Jews are God's chosen people.
2. The Christian church. We are adopted as God's children as the new Israel.

There, now you know.
Good pick of the verses Jen.

Well, I wondered if Israel and the church might be right but that would mean that we are doing the following (in bold):

Rev 11:1 I was given a reed like a measuring rod and was told, &#8220;Go and measure the temple of God and the altar, and count the worshipers there.
Rev 11:2 But exclude the outer court; do not measure it, because it has been given to the Gentiles. They will trample on the holy city for 42 months.
Rev 11:3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth.&#8221;
Rev 11:4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the Lord of the earth.
Rev 11:5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die.
Rev 11:6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.
Rev 11:7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them.
Rev 11:8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified.
Rev 11:9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial.
Rev 11:10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.
Rev 11:11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from God entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them.
Rev 11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, &#8220;Come up here.&#8221; And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.




So, it is more likely that they are actually two men who walk in the same power as Moses and Elijah who used to do the same kinds of miraculous things.

How can Israel or the church come to an agreement on which plague they want to stir up?

Now, we can spiritualize it and say something like:

1. "shut up the sky so that it does not rain" really means that the Holy Spirit is not given.

2. Fire coming out of their mouths and killing people really means that those who don't listen to them will burn in the lake of fire on judgment day.

3. The "waters to blood" really means that many people will die in wars.

BUT, I don't think any of that is true.

Here's what I am thinking:

1. Moses and Elijah did the same things that the two witnesses will do. I think that is a BIG clue.

2. It literally says they are "men". (11:6)

3. Moses and Elijah appeared, standing with Jesus, on the Mt during the transfiguration. That could be a symbolic type of the passage of Zech 4....the two olive trees standing to the right and left of the lampstand.

4. Their appearance with Jesus on the Mt. demonstrates that they (Moses and Elijah) are indeed "anointed to serve the Lord". And if they were anointed enough to appear on a mountain and talk with Jesus, then I'm sure they are good enough to testify and prophesy in Jerusalem in the near future.

Mat 17:1 After six days Jesus took with him Peter, James and John the brother of James, and led them up a high mountain by themselves.
Mat 17:2 There he was transfigured before them. His face shone like the sun, and his clothes became as white as the light.
Mat 17:3 Just then there appeared before them Moses and Elijah, talking with Jesus.
Mat 17:4 Peter said to Jesus, &#8220;Lord, it is good for us to be here. If you wish, I will put up three shelters&#8211;one for you, one for Moses and one for Elijah.&#8221;



#5. Would Zechariah have known about Moses and Elijah? The angel said:

"Zec 4:4 I asked the angel who talked with me, &#8220;What are these, my lord?&#8221;
Zec 4:5 He answered, &#8220;Do you not know what these are?&#8221;
&#8220;No, my lord,&#8221; I replied.

So, why would the angel expect Zechariah to know who these two are? They would be someone that Zechariah would know about and understand, right? He would not have known about the church as one of the two olive trees.

 

[Bobgf]

Ahhh, no.

Zec 4:14 is the key people!

Who are the two groups anointed to serve the Lord?

1. Israel, the Jews are God's chosen people.
2. The Christian church. We are adopted as God's children as the new Israel.

There, now you know.
Good pick of the verses Jen.

k2svpete, your choice sounds good to me.


So perhaps the 1st group (Israel) is represented by Elijah.

And the 2nd group (Christian church) is represented by Enoch.

As you know, both Elijah (2King 2:11) and Enoch (Gen 5:22) were taken to heaven w/o dieing.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

I came across this explanation of the two witnesses and timing and wondered if some here agree or disagree. (I don't know anything about the site so I'm not advocating it but I thought the study was well-thought out):

http://www.pre-trib.org/article-view.php?id=337


Excerpt:

"For several reasons, I suggest that this is the first half of the Seventieth Week. First, there seems to be an intentional distinction between the time of the Gentile occupation of the Temple's outer court and the city, and the time of the two witnesses, by means of the different time-units used: 42 months for the Gentile domination and 1,260 days for the two witnesses. If the same time period is intended for both groups, why is not the 42-month time-block sufficient to cover both?



Second, and more important, in the very next verse (Rev. 11:4), the ministry of the two witnesses is compared to the ministry of the two olive trees of Zech. 4:3, namely, Joshua the high priest and Zerubbabel the governor of the Jewish remnant, who returned from Babylon to re-establish legitimate worship in Jerusalem (Zech. 3:1 and 4:6). These leaders did not have to wait for the Temple to be rebuilt to begin sacrificing on the altar which they erected on the ruins of Solomon's Temple (cf. Ezra 3:2-3). By the same token, the two witnesses will not have to wait for the third temple to be built in order to begin
sacrificing on a divinely legitimate altar on the present ruins of the second temple. What they will need is supernatural protection to re-institute the sacrifices (cf. Dan. 9:27) in the presence of enormous, even global, opposition (cf. Rev. 11:10).


The reason why this will happen during the first half of the seventieth week is that "in the middle of the week He [the Antichrist] shall bring an end to sacrifice [zevach = bloody sacrifices] and offering [minchah = non-bloody sacrifices]" (Dan. 9:27). As J. Dwight Pentecost explains, "This expression refers to the entire Levitical system, which suggests that Israel will have restored that system in the first half of the 70th 'seven.'"[2] Antichrist will replace the legitimate, God-honoring Jewish worship system, which only the two witnesses can inaugurate, with his own system, namely, the abomination of desolation (cf. Dan. 9:27b, 12:11; Matt. 24:15; 2 Thess. 2:4; Rev. 13:14-15). But the Antichrist cannot do this until the 1,260 days of ministry allotted by God to the two witnesses has been completed (cf. Rev. 11:7)."

The site is pretrib so they have it all wrong from the jump also the tribulation is 3.5 yrs long not 7 yrs so there really is not 1st half.

 

[onwingsaseagles]

While the spirit of Elijah is necessary for both the first and second coming hearlding.... Just as John the Baptist is not Elijah ... so also will neither of the two witnesses be the original two (Moses or Elijah)

I agree with this statement.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

The site is pretrib so they have it all wrong from the jump also the tribulation is 3.5 yrs long not 7 yrs so there really is not 1st half.

That's an interesting take on the situation. You are right in that 42 months, 1260 days, and "time, times, 1/2 a time" are repeatedly mentioned but not the seven years.

Daniel also mentions 2300 days and 1335 days.

All of which are less than 7 years.

I hope you are correct. I'd be interested in looking at the reasoning (with scriptures) behind that idea.

 

[HisdaughterJen]

I agree with this statement.

It was the original two who appeared with Jesus on the Mt. at the transfiguation. What scriptures indicate that it will be one way or the other?

 

[HisdaughterJen]

FYI: I've invited "YeshuaMySalvation" to come on over and talk eschatology with us and offer insights he might have as a Messianic Jew.

 

[k2svpete]

Regarding Matt 17, it is important to really read carefully the whole passage. In verse 9 Christ tells them not to tell anyone of the VISION they had seen. That would indicate to me that it is not an actual occurance.

Moses and Elijah are sybolical of the law (Moses) and the new covenant (Elijah) both being subject to Christ before God.

The passage in Rev doesn't require the two witnesses to act in combination with each other but it makes it clear that they are of God and both have power from God to effect their environment. I'd have to do a bit more study on the passage to shed further light.

 

[yeshuasavedme]

k2svpete, your choice sounds good to me.


So perhaps the 1st group (Israel) is represented by Elijah.

And the 2nd group (Christian church) is represented by Enoch.

As you know, both Elijah (2King 2:11) and Enoch (Gen 5:22) were taken to heaven w/o dieing.

Enoch was not just "taken" to heaven without dying: Enoch was translated/transformed from the dead Adam spirit and flesh to the image of the son of God in his own father, Adam,s name. Enoch was given the immortal garments of glory and taken ahead and set at the feet of the Son of Man in His Glory, to enter Zion of the spirit in the heavenlies by His grace. The whole passage in Enoch shows that He went ahead in time to the establishment of Zion on the Foundation Stone. John saw the same vision as Enoch at the same place, in Rev 4.
The law of firstborn as is explained in the Word of God gives one the understanding of why Enoch was translated/transformed to the immortal body by second birth in the Living Spirit. The Living Spirit, Christ, has a firstborn "seed", in Enoch (by his second birth in the same Spirit) who is now raised up to the Kinsman's dead brother's name (Adam), so that the inheritance (the kingdom prepared for the human being sons of God to rule), is not lost.


The living brother is called Israel (Isaiah 49), and He is the Living Spirit, Christ, come in second creation human being flesh (the second Man, in the Word, is the second Human Being son of God) to be the Kinsman to the dead brother's inheritance and to "marry" the barren widow by also ransoming the inheritance of the dead brother.
The dead (in spirit, since the fall) son of God is Adam (Luke 3:38). The seed are all born dead to the Glory and are not sons of God human kind (Malachi 3:15 -God made them one spirit for the purpose of multiplying the sons of God to inherit the earth as the kingdom the human being son of God was made from to rule over)and the inheritance is corrupted and fit for only destruction unless it is redeemed and restored).
We are all Adam as to our kind until we are born of the Living Spirit from above. We who are joined to Christ by that second birth (called the adoption, in Scripture, which pertains to those natural sons of Jacob called by His New Man name, "Israel") are still in our Adam flesh, which is the "dead" for whom we are baptized in the hope of our resurrection in the same flesh in the regenerated image of the Living Son of God, at which time we will all be "Israel" as to our human being kind name, and the only one of us who are the seed of Christ who will be called Adam (as the name of the first human being son of God) forever, is Enoch.
search the biblical law of firstborn and see why Enoch is "morphosed" to the image of the Son of God in the name of the dead "barren" widow's (Zion of the Spirit) first "isyh". Adam is that first 'isyh's name, "Israel" is the second.
In Isaiah 59 YHWH looked and saqw no 'isyh (translated 'man' there, but that is not a good translation for that word in that place) to bring forth justice and judgment for the earth. Therefore He, Himself, put on the garments of "Kinsman" which word means Redeemer, also, so that He could be the Redeemer for the earth which had no 'Isyh to ransom and restore the righteous purpose of it.

Elijah, on the other hand, is not dead in his human being Adam flesh body, nor is he translated/morphsed as Enoch is. Only Enoch, as the firstborn seed of the Living Everlasting Spirit the Christ ( who was to come, and is come, in second man flesh -and shall return in the same) was translated for the Glory, before Christ incarnated rose from the dead in His own flesh body (as second Man) and raised those who came out of their graves and walked about the city, seen of many, to take them to the Father on high to fulfill the offering of the First of Firstfruits in the created temple in the created heaven on the first "first day of the week after Passover. When He was glorified on high, they also were glorified with Him -but Enoch was already there.
Moses is not dead, having been raised in his own Adam flesh body and gone up in the same, from where he will return in the same, with Elijah, for the Witness of Jesus Christ to Israel after the Church is removed from the earth -and not before the Church is removed, as the h=ingathered "first harvest", which is typed in Pentecost.

Those 144,000 Jews who believe and receive second birth and translation of their bodies of flesh to the image of the second Man are taken to Zion above as the firstfruits of the second and last harvest of earth, which is typed in Tabernacles.

After they are gone from the earth, Zion flees, as the star sign signifies, and that Zion is personified as the Woman who is hidden for the last three and a half years of the seven, which seven began with the ingathering of Pentecost, when those of the first harvest were taken to the Holies of heaven's temple to celebrate for the entire seven 'days' as Leviticus 8 signifies the sons will do, when they don the holy garments and celebrate their consecration as priests in the firstborn's name.
Elijah and Moses do not come to the world. They come to Israel as the two eyewitness of Christ come in flesh as their Atonement, and they witnessed His life, death, resurrection and ascension, seating in Glory, and His receiving of the Glory. They represent the witness of the Law and the Prophets to Christ, and they finish the call to Israel to come and be made whole in His name by the second birth.

When they and the 144,000 of Israel are gone from the earth, from that time, no man on earth will be able to be born again, for Zion is hidden. But those who come to believe and who are faithful to the end will receive the crown of life if nartyred, and also, those who remain alive til His coming will be made "pillars" in the "temple" not made with hands, by receiving everlasting Life by second birth in Spirit when He returns.


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[visionary]

Enoch was not just "taken" to heaven without dying: Enoch was translated/transformed from the dead Adam spirit and flesh to the image of the son of God in his own father, Adam,s name. Enoch was given the immortal garments of glory and taken ahead and set at the feet of the Son of Man in His Glory, to enter Zion of the spirit in the heavenlies by His grace. The whole passage in Enoch shows that He went ahead in time to the establishment of Zion on the Foundation Stone. John saw the same vision as Enoch at the same place, in Rev 4.
The law of firstborn as is explained in the Word of God gives one the understanding of why Enoch was translated/transformed to the immortal body by second birth in the Living Spirit. The Living Spirit, Christ, has a firstborn "seed", in Enoch (by his second birth in the same Spirit) who is now raised up to the Kinsman's dead brother's name (Adam), so that the inheritance (the kingdom prepared for the human being sons of God to rule), is not lost.


The living brother is called Israel (Isaiah 49), and He is the Living Spirit, Christ, come in second creation human being flesh (the second Man, in the Word, is the second Human Being son of God) to be the Kinsman to the dead brother's inheritance and to "marry" the barren widow by also ransoming the inheritance of the dead brother.
The dead (in spirit, since the fall) son of God is Adam (Luke 3:38). The seed are all born dead to the Glory and are not sons of God human kind (Malachi 3:15 -God made them one spirit for the purpose of multiplying the sons of God to inherit the earth as the kingdom the human being son of God was made from to rule over)and the inheritance is corrupted and fit for only destruction unless it is redeemed and restored).
We are all Adam as to our kind until we are born of the Living Spirit from above. We who are joined to Christ by that second birth (called the adoption, in Scripture, which pertains to those natural sons of Jacob called by His New Man name, "Israel") are still in our Adam flesh, which is the "dead" for whom we are baptized in the hope of our resurrection in the same flesh in the regenerated image of the Living Son of God, at which time we will all be "Israel" as to our human being kind name, and the only one of us who are the seed of Christ who will be called Adam (as the name of the first human being son of God) forever, is Enoch.
search the biblical law of firstborn and see why Enoch is "morphosed" to the image of the Son of God in the name of the dead "barren" widow's (Zion of the Spirit) first "isyh". Adam is that first 'isyh's name, "Israel" is the second.
In Isaiah 59 YHWH looked and saqw no 'isyh (translated 'man' there, but that is not a good translation for that word in that place) to bring forth justice and judgment for the earth. Therefore He, Himself, put on the garments of "Kinsman" which word means Redeemer, also, so that He could be the Redeemer for the earth which had no 'Isyh to ransom and restore the righteous purpose of it.

Elijah, on the other hand, is not dead in his human being Adam flesh body, nor is he translated/morphsed as Enoch is. Only Enoch, as the firstborn seed of the Living Everlasting Spirit the Christ ( who was to come, and is come, in second man flesh -and shall return in the same) was translated for the Glory, before Christ incarnated rose from the dead in His own flesh body (as second Man) and raised those who came out of their graves and walked about the city, seen of many, to take them to the Father on high to fulfill the offering of the First of Firstfruits in the created temple in the created heaven on the first "first day of the week after Passover. When He was glorified on high, they also were glorified with Him -but Enoch was already there.
Moses is not dead, having been raised in his own Adam flesh body and gone up in the same, from where he will return in the same, with Elijah, for the Witness of Jesus Christ to Israel after the Church is removed from the earth -and not before the Church is removed, as the h=ingathered "first harvest", which is typed in Pentecost.

Those 144,000 Jews who believe and receive second birth and translation of their bodies of flesh to the image of the second Man are taken to Zion above as the firstfruits of the second and last harvest of earth, which is typed in Tabernacles.

After they are gone from the earth, Zion flees, as the star sign signifies, and that Zion is personified as the Woman who is hidden for the last three and a half years of the seven, which seven began with the ingathering of Pentecost, when those of the first harvest were taken to the Holies of heaven's temple to celebrate for the entire seven 'days' as Leviticus 8 signifies the sons will do, when they don the holy garments and celebrate their consecration as priests in the firstborn's name.
Elijah and Moses do not come to the world. They come to Israel as the two eyewitness of Christ come in flesh as their Atonement, and they witnessed His life, death, resurrection and ascension, seating in Glory, and His receiving of the Glory. They represent the witness of the Law and the Prophets to Christ, and they finish the call to Israel to come and be made whole in His name by the second birth.

When they and the 144,000 of Israel are gone from the earth, from that time, no man on earth will be able to be born again, for Zion is hidden. But those who come to believe and who are faithful to the end will receive the crown of life if nartyred, and also, those who remain alive til His coming will be made "pillars" in the "temple" not made with hands, by receiving everlasting Life by second birth in Spirit when He returns.


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What??

 

[HisdaughterJen]

What??

It's a lot to take in but she is explaining a bit of the "why" behind what will happen.